Let's talk about the mysterious figure seen in The First City [SPOILERS]

[Teratus.2859]

I doubt she's anything more than a Joko stand in..

Probably his second in command who has taken over for Joko after the end events of PoF made a stand in necessary.. or it is Joko himself acting through one of his awakened while his own body remains trapped where we last saw it.

These are the most likely scenarios I can think of considering the story events thus far.

[Cwnannwn.7681]

This is going to be a wild and maybe even borderline seemingly insane theory but... what if she's just one of Joko's bureaucrats, something like the deputy undersecretary to the governor of Istan.

[Ayakaru.6583]

Likely female? The portrait looked like a typical elonian man.

[Ayakaru.6583]

@Orimidu.9604 said:

Here's our mysterious figure. Definitely female. Likely not Joko's Scepter. Definitely not a Mordant weapon.

The model I saw looked nothing like that. It was a dark hooded figure from a distance, when i clicked in him it looked like a typical elonian man.

But how did you get an image on the forum? On my end it always generates a link to the picture

Edit: its a "all lowest settings"- issue.It turns the model to a formless shroud and the portrait becomes so pixelated its androgynous at best

[Orimidu.9604]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@Orimidu.9604 said:

Here's our mysterious figure. Definitely female. Likely not Joko's Scepter. Definitely not a Mordant weapon.

The model I saw looked nothing like that. It was a dark hooded figure from a distance, when i clicked in him it looked like a typical elonian man.

But how did you get an image on the forum? On my end it always generates a link to the picture

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/18234/ley-line-core-details-daybreak-spoilers/p2

[Michram.6853]

Hmm She looks a bit like Livia...

[Chorne.8195]

I think we finally found the Red Lady.She's Awakened and she would have some relation to the Underworld, obviously, because she's, er, dead, and she was brought to life by necromancy, which the Red Lady clearly has some connection to.She is obviously not looking to hold hands with everyone and sing kumbaya, as the Red Lady isn't, getting necromancers and priests killed left and right.

She has to be some major character. She's out for our blood, has a champion health bar, and "Mysterious Figure" is obviously showing us we want to figure out who she is.

And this is a random crackpot theory:What if she's not an Awakened created by Joko? Could she be a lich as well perhaps assisting him? Or simply waiting to betray him and take his military and land for herself? A war with Tyria with the undead forces on another continent would be an excellent opportunity to off Joko and usurp him. And I honestly don't think he's going to take the risk of physically going to a war zone in Tyria, especially with all the enemies he has there.I wonder, how does one become a lich? I hope ANet answers this with all the weird necromancy stuff going on. Maybe Joko and the Mysterious Figure became liches by their own efforts. Maybe it's something like Awakening, but Joko instead puts a magical hold on his servants. Awakened tend to keep their skills from when they were alive, and to learn how to create Awakened would be something only a master necromancer could accomplish. There isn't really a definition for 'lich' in GW2, maybe it just refers to an extremely powerful undead. And Koss kept his memories and will. Who says Joko or this woman couldn't?I hate the theory that the Mysterious Figure is Joko's daughter from recently, an undead cannot reproduce, for obvious reasons I will not go into. Maybe she was his daughter from when he was alive. Maybe she was an apprentice, or cohort. And as for Joko's selfishness: He's thousands of years old. Sanity is not invulnerable, and I seriously question his.

[Michram.6853]

@Chorne.8195 said:I think we finally found the Red Lady.She's Awakened and she would have some relation to the Underworld, obviously, because she's, er, dead, and she was brought to life by necromancy, which the Red Lady clearly has some connection to.She is obviously not looking to hold hands with everyone and sing kumbaya, as the Red Lady isn't, getting necromancers and priests killed left and right.

She has to be some major character. She's out for our blood, has a champion health bar, and "Mysterious Figure" is obviously showing us we want to figure out who she is.

And this is a random crackpot theory:What if she's not an Awakened created by Joko? Could she be a lich as well perhaps assisting him? Or simply waiting to betray him and take his military and land for herself? A war with Tyria with the undead forces on another continent would be an excellent opportunity to off Joko and usurp him. And I honestly don't think he's going to take the risk of physically going to a war zone in Tyria, especially with all the enemies he has there.I wonder, how does one become a lich? I hope ANet answers this with all the weird necromancy stuff going on. Maybe Joko and the Mysterious Figure became liches by their own efforts. Maybe it's something like Awakening, but Joko instead puts a magical hold on his servants. Awakened tend to keep their skills from when they were alive, and to learn how to create Awakened would be something only a master necromancer could accomplish. There isn't really a definition for 'lich' in GW2, maybe it just refers to an extremely powerful undead. And Koss kept his memories and will. Who says Joko or this woman couldn't?I hate the theory that the Mysterious Figure is Joko's daughter from recently, an undead cannot reproduce, for obvious reasons I will not go into. Maybe she was his daughter from when he was alive. Maybe she was an apprentice, or cohort. And as for Joko's selfishness: He's thousands of years old. Sanity is not invulnerable, and I seriously question his.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soulless_Horrorhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Desmina

Desmina is the Red Lady. 1st boss in the new raid.

[Michram.6853]

"...speaks to me in dreams_the red lady_seeking allies_answer the call.."

I'm gonna fill the blanks:

Dhuum speaks to me in dreams, but the Red Lady (Desmina) wants to prevent him from seeking allies. Should I answer the call?

Desmina is the 1st Priestess of Grenth, so it's obvious she is Grenth's servant, also she was a chosen of Grenth and so she and the players stopped Dhuum from "seeking allies" and complete the ritual that would free Dhuum from his prison.

9:46

the final scene- Desmina is pleased. :)

[Chorne.8195]

Ah. I never pay any attention to raids...

[Michram.6853]

Also she first appeared as a red orb (as we saw in the Godslost Swamp) and it was Desmina's spirit, she had to reclaim her body (Souless Horror). And after the 1st fight she reclaimed her body and so it appeared that this orb and souless horror is Desmina- 1st priestess of Grenth.

So this is why Dhuum attacked 2 bodies which were the priests of Grenth. And the orb (Desmina) just wanted to give a signal that something's wrong and they were in fact her friends (they were priests of Grenth and she is). Desmina couldn't kill them, she didn't command the Skeletons- it was all Dhuum's work.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Tyson.5160 said:I guess, the pieces do fit, and she has some minor importance, just not sure they won’t reveal her character name. It’s not like the gw community been waiting a decade to find out what happened to Lonai.

I think the purpose behind not revealing the name is to create threads exactly like this, but also to build up some anticipation.

If they just went and had her named Lonai, would most people care to discuss it much? No, because we already have multiple examples of Sunspears-turned-Awakened (both among those known in GW1, and among those not known). GW1 players will see a nod but not care to discuss it much, non-GW1 players won't get that nod and won't care to find out if it is one. But with it being called "Mysterious Figure" folks who never played GW2 are discussing it, and folks who played GW1 bring Lonai up resulting in the former group getting to learn about her.

They learned their lesson with Livia being an out-of-the-blue reveal that was handled poorly, and I would hope with Balthazar's poor reveal too. They lacked hints with Balthazar because they feared we'd figure it out before the next release due to the 2 month cadence, and result in the reveal but unsurprising. But that resulted in people disliking the plot reveal.

@Arden.7480 said:"...speaks to me in dreams_the red lady_seeking allies_answer the call.."

I'm gonna fill the blanks:

Dhuum speaks to me in dreams, but the Red Lady (Desmina) wants to prevent him from seeking allies. Should I answer the call?

It's explained in the raid side-dialogue that Desmina was the one who was giving the call / dreams.

[Tyson.5160]

Was Lonai that important to the story in Nightfall? I recall her having some story points in the Sunspear hideout in Kourna as well as being a henchmen. Seems like a disappointing reveal... Lonai: It is I Commander, Lonai! Commander: Who? Lonai: You know I was a henchman in Istan, had a few quests in Kourna, you know establishing a Sunspear base, remember me? Commander: Not ringing a bell. Lonai: (sigh). I gave out a bunch quests about helping the Centaurs and gave you the quest that helped the then player free Joko. Commander: Oh right.

[Gorgaan Peaudesang.8324]

@Tyson.5160 said:Was Lonai that important to the story in Nightfall? I recall her having some story points in the Sunspear hideout in Kourna as well as being a henchmen. Seems like a disappointing reveal... Lonai: It is I Commander, Lonai! Commander: Who? Lonai: You know I was a henchman in Istan, had a few quests in Kourna, you know establishing a Sunspear base, remember me? Commander: Not ringing a bell. Lonai: (sigh). I gave out a bunch quests about helping the Centaurs and gave you the quest that helped the then player free Joko. Commander: Oh right.

Lonai was part of a Sunspear group including Rojis, Ahtok and Nerashi. Ahtok died during the assault on Gandara and the three others were instrumental in the establishment of their base of operations in Kourna.

[Lametoile.7394]

Well, she looks a lot like Lonai, and considering Koss mentionned her, that's probably her. The point is: that's not major as she's always has been a minor character. You don't build mystery around a character like that unless you want him to be a major antagonist. And though she could have gained that potential over the last two centuries, that's not very satisfying. Having a nightfall hero awakened is strikink but Lonai? Don't care much...The Lyssa theory would be plausible but i think one of the purpose of PoF was precisely to have the gods out of the plot for good. Personally, i don't like the ideas of fighting another one.

But i have another crazy therory that came to my mind and just wants to share: what if the mysterious figure was... Palawa Joko himself? I mean: everybody has always known him under his momified rotted form. We don't know how he was as a human. What if by escaping the mists he somehow found a way to regenerate himself? And maybe hints at his origins? (that remain a mystery to this day).

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Tyson.5160 said:Was Lonai that important to the story in Nightfall?

Yes, and no.

Lonai was part of an elite squad when the game began, and said squad led a different invasion point during the assault on Gandara (there were three assault points - one led by us, one led by Lonai and her team, and one led by Kormir). The invasion of demons left Lonai suffering from PTSD however. What remained of her squad helped expand the Sunspear Sanctuary, and Lonai herself took the role of leadership of the sanctuary - she sent us on the various missions, handled all the paper work, etc.

TL;DR

• Mechanically, she played the same role in Kourna as Castellan Puuba did in Istan. Or to put it in GW2 perspective: the same role as Gixx, Almorra, and Riel Darkwater in the personal story.
• Storywise, she was our senpai who suffered a mental berakdown after a devastating failure and death of some team members, and carried on to function as the Sunspear's temporary leader while Kormir was MIA.

@Lametoile.7394 said:The point is: that's not major as she's always has been a minor character. You don't build mystery around a character like that unless you want him to be a major antagonist.

They did a similar kind of building up for Lady Valette Wi though. A previously unknown with obvious ties to a formerly barely-important side character.

@Lametoile.7394 said:The Lyssa theory would be plausible but i think one of the purpose of PoF was precisely to have the gods out of the plot for good. Personally, i don't like the ideas of fighting another one.

I'm not convinced that the gods are "out of the plot for good". The gods were already out of the plot, why bring them in just to shove them out immediately after? Besides that, post-PoF we've already gotten more god stuff in the form of the raid.

While I doubt this is Lyssa (the people who are shouting Lyssa now have been shouting "It's Lyssa!" since Flashpoint teaser if not long before), it's unrealistic that they did PoF for the primary sake of shoving the gods out of the picture forevermore.

@Lametoile.7394 said:But i have another crazy therory that came to my mind and just wants to share: what if the mysterious figure was... Palawa Joko himself? I mean: everybody has always known him under his momified rotted form. We don't know how he was as a human. What if by escaping the mists he somehow found a way to regenerate himself? And maybe hints at his origins? (that remain a mystery to this day).

Because the voice we heard was the same as the voice we heard in PoF. That would be a very weird red herring to leave us just to make us think the female Awakened is not Palawa Joko. I mean, under normal circumstances we wouldn't really consider such at all would we? That means the voice being the same would be pointless and they'd be better off presenting it as "a general of Joko has captured Taimi" and not "Joko has captured Taimi".

As poorly written as the story can get, this isn't Lost.

[Lina.1327]

I’m gonna fucking scream, I didn’t notice this figure and I’m kinda nervous to find out who it is. If she makes this story impossible to beat, i am going to cry. I forget all of gw1, so I have zero theories on who it is, but I’m stressed nonetheless

[Gany.1793]

Hmmm...let me get this straight.

1. Dead Female
2. Red Hair
3. Hatred for the PC
4. Advanced knowledge of portals which are opening all over tyria....

Dear gods! It's Scarlet!!!!

Gany :)

[Therys.4368]

Er..she bugged out in my third character's run and didn't go away until Scruffy phase 2 so...snapshots away.(p.s. Ignore the mini white moa)

[Eleazar.9478]

Totally think it's Lyssa as op stated and it's been established by pofs story that mesmers can easily fool the joko's undead.

[Twyn.7320]

Maybe... it's a brand new character? GASP! Who knew that Anet could be so original, instead of relying on GW1 to prop up the story? ;)

[Michram.6853]

@Gany.1793 said:Hmmm...let me get this straight.

1. Dead Female
2. Red Hair
3. Hatred for the PC
4. Advanced knowledge of portals which are opening all over tyria....

Dear gods! It's Scarlet!!!!

Gany :)

1. Awakened
2. I think it's more maroon.
3. As the servant of Joko that hates us for not releasing him, of course she doesn't like us.
4. How did you come up with this idea? I think Rytlock's theory is much better that one of Inquest went too far from home, Joko took him, killed him, Awakened him and got into his brain, so he could find out that they are doing some Scarab experiments in this secret Fahranur base. The portals were already there so the Inquest could connect with their bases like with the Dragon lab in Mount Maelstrom.

It's not Scarlet obviously and of course it's not Lyssa. Lyssa is gone and we should just stop repeating that she is on Tyria. Scarlet is dead and most, most likely she already found her place in the Mists.

We have to trust in Kormir's words, even though something is not right, if she was waiting for us, and Balthazar was imprisoned (most likely thanks her knowledge from Abaddon), also she was doing 'something' in her library and Balthazar just sneaked out from the Mists... Why didn't she go there and stop Rytlock from releasing Balthazar, why didn't she appear ot of nowhere to hold the magical sword??

Why Rytlock was so stupid that she released the stranger, that had some weird, powerful magic? I understand he was exhausted, but that was idiotic, why didn't he do the same as the commander- we left Joko in the Mists, he could have done it as well. There're two possibilities:

1. He is stupid.
2. Somebody tricked his mind.

Anyway, back to topic- it's just Mysterious figure that is not relevant, we will kill her in 2nd or 3rd episode. ;)

[draxynnic.3719]

@Arden.7480 said:

Why Rytlock was so stupid that he released the stranger, that had some weird, powerful magic? I understand he was exhausted, but that was idiotic, why didn't he do the same as the commander- we left Joko in the Mists, he could have done it as well. There're two possibilities:

1. He is stupid.
2. Somebody tricked his mind.

There are a couple of distinctions, though:

First, Rytlock had reason to feel gratitude towards the stranger - the stranger had done him a favour, so he did the stranger a favour in return. Rytlock does generally seem to be a character that tries to pay his debts.

Secondly, given that Tyrians are aware of the existence of other worlds and such in the Mists, Rytlock had no reason to assume that a figure whom he released in the Mists would ever be interested in Tyria. The PC, on the other hand, knew very well that Joko would be returning to Tyria, and made the decision that it was better to delay that return.

Basically, Rytlock didn't feel that there was much chance of his actions actually affecting Tyria, and therefore took a 'you scratch my back' attitude. And in different circumstances, it probably would have been the right call. A Balthazar that was willing to work towards a solution to killing the dragons without destroying Tyria would have been a valuable ally. A powerful entity that continued to feel gratitude towards Rytlock could also have been a valuable ally. Even if the stranger was malevolent, releasing him might have encouraged him to go and cause trouble somewhere else instead of being Tyria's problem, while accepting the reignition of Sohothin and then leaving the stranger bound might have caused the stranger to specifically seek out Tyria for revenge sometime in the future.

With the information Rytlock had, either choice carried risks. As it turned out, he probably made the wrong choice (although... would Aurene be dead or corrupted now if it wasn't for Balthaddon-Lazarus coming to the rescue in E2?), but he had no way of knowing what the right choice was given the information he had at his disposal.

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@Arden.7480 said:

Why Rytlock was so stupid that he released the stranger, that had some weird, powerful magic? I understand he was exhausted, but that was idiotic, why didn't he do the same as the commander- we left Joko in the Mists, he could have done it as well. There're two possibilities:

1. He is stupid.
2. Somebody tricked his mind.

There are a couple of distinctions, though:

First, Rytlock had reason to feel gratitude towards the stranger - the stranger had done him a favour, so he did the stranger a favour in return. Rytlock does generally seem to be a character that tries to pay his debts.

Secondly, given that Tyrians are aware of the existence of other worlds and such in the Mists, Rytlock had no reason to assume that a figure whom he released in the Mists would ever be interested in Tyria. The PC, on the other hand, knew very well that Joko

would

be returning to Tyria, and made the decision that it was better to delay that return.

Basically, Rytlock didn't feel that there was much chance of his actions actually affecting Tyria, and therefore took a 'you scratch my back' attitude. And in different circumstances, it probably would have been the right call. A Balthazar that was willing to work towards a solution to killing the dragons without destroying Tyria would have been a valuable ally. A powerful entity that continued to feel gratitude towards Rytlock could also have been a valuable ally. Even if the stranger was malevolent, releasing him might have encouraged him to go and cause trouble somewhere else instead of being Tyria's problem, while accepting the reignition of Sohothin and then leaving the stranger bound might have caused the stranger to specifically seek out Tyria for revenge sometime in the future.

With the information Rytlock had, either choice carried risks. As it turned out, he probably made the wrong choice (although... would Aurene be dead or corrupted now if it wasn't for Balthaddon-Lazarus coming to the rescue in E2?), but he had no way of knowing what the right choice was given the information he had at his disposal.

Not to mention, without Balthazar's involvement, it's very likely that Caudecus' attempted coup would not have been a flash-in-the-pan insurrection. At a time where both Primordus and Jormag were active, one of the Pact's strongest backers might have gone down in flames, or at the very least been put into a position where it could no longer offer support. And that's the best case scenario. If Balthazar hadn't stolen Taimi's machine and left her with that bad feeling, would she have bothered to run her simulation? We might not have had a Tyria left to save without him.