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Question for the Chrono Veterans


Nanogrid.7283

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https://imgbox.com/dUGM8QOk

How does a 1,093 damage skill become a 8,827 damage skill?

Only thing I know about the player is that he is playing Chrono spec.

Also, in case the "Mind Stab" popup uses my stats instead of the enemy ones, I am full zerk but not full ascended. I checked on build maker website and a full zerk ascended gear Chrono with 25 stacks of might would turn "Mind Stab" into a 1,300 damage skill.

Full ascended zerk Chrono has about 244% crit damage, 1300 x 2,44 = 3172

What am I missing?

Even if I had 25 stacks of vul the math does not check out. Unless I do not know how vul actually works.

Edited by Nanogrid.7283
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21 minutes ago, Nanogrid.7283 said:

https://imgbox.com/dUGM8QOk

How does a 1,093 damage skill become a 8,827 damage skill?

Only thing I know about the player is that he is playing Chrono spec.

Also, in case the "Mind Stab" popup uses my stats instead of the enemy ones, I am full zerk but not full ascended. I checked on build maker website and a full zerk ascended gear Chrono with 25 stacks of might would turn "Mind Stab" into a 1,300 damage skill.

Full ascended zerk Chrono has about 244% crit damage, 1300 x 2,44 = 3172

What am I missing?

Even if I had 25 stacks of vul the math does not check out. Unless I do not know how vul actually works.

The long story short is that there are both crit-damage modifiers and base-damage modifiers.

You are onto it when you consider the crit damage modifier (but you are calculating it wrong) and what vulnurability does. However, there are many more modifiers on both those ends, some of which turns up in various calculators and some which do not. Things like GW2skills is a good help, but it does not pull all data. You can test that yourself since not all traits and effects will update the tooltip figures there and it has no support for shared modifiers or the like. Also keep in mind that the base modifiers are run first so they inflate through the crit modifiers (ie., if a 1k base damage skill get base modified to 2k then a x3 crit modifier brings it up to 6k or x6 the base value).

If you want to do rough estimates from a tooltip or base value, consider that perfect crits are closer to 10x than 3x the base value.

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5 minutes ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

The long story short is that there are both crit-damage modifiers and base-damage modifiers.

You are onto it when you consider the crit damage modifier (but you are calculating it wrong) and what vulnurability does. However, there are many more modifiers on both those ends, some of which turns up in various calculators and some which do not. Things like GW2skills is a good help, but it does not pull all data. You can test that yourself since not all traits and effects will update the tooltip figures there and it has no support for shared modifiers or the like. Also keep in mind that the base modifiers are run first so they inflate through the crit modifiers (ie., if a 1k base damage skill get base modified to 2k then a x3 crit modifier brings it up to 6k or x6 the base value).

If you want to do rough estimates from a tooltip or base value, consider that perfect crits are closer to 10x than 3x the base value.

Thank you for your answer.

Also, there is no type of "training dummy" I can test WvW builds on, correct? The one in sPvP is useless for WvW purposes and so should the PvE raid one in Lions Arch, as it uses PvE modifiers and not WvW ones.

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Just now, Nanogrid.7283 said:

Thank you for your answer.

Also, there is no type of "training dummy" I can test WvW builds on, correct? The one in sPvP is useless for WvW purposes and so should the PvE raid one in Lions Arch, as it uses PvE modifiers and not WvW ones.

There are WvW-golems in the AB lobby/pavillion but you have to buy that for gems since, well, you know, ArenaNet hates WvW and its players 😉.

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4 minutes ago, babana.7521 said:

What are Modifier? 

Something that modifies (ie., changes) something.

  • Also, since I pulled GW2skills up I can give you guys a couple of quick examples of what I said before.
  • If you go eg., Domi-Duel-Chrono you can see examples of base modifiers, crit modifiers and also of how some modifiers are used, others are not and yet others have no support there.
  • So things like Egotism, Fragility and Vicious expression are all base modifiers but none of them show up in the tooltip there.
  • Things like Superiority Complex does show up in the stats whereas things like Improved Alacrity does not, even if you toggle Alacrity on while things like Fencer's Finesse does not have the support to be shown.
  • Just setting up a quick build there lands the base value of a Mind Stab at around 2.3k on a 2k AR target, that is without all those aforementioned modifiers and without crit. I have no idea what the guy or you played there, so just consider it as within a realm of possibilities.
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3 hours ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

There are WvW-golems in the AB lobby/pavillion but you have to buy that for gems since, well, you know, ArenaNet hates WvW and its players 😉.

It also doesn't count dps without an external tool, doesn't let you set buffs, and oh they are shared between everyone there making testing more or less useless.

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7 hours ago, Nanogrid.7283 said:

https://imgbox.com/dUGM8QOk

How does a 1,093 damage skill become a 8,827 damage skill?

Only thing I know about the player is that he is playing Chrono spec.

Also, in case the "Mind Stab" popup uses my stats instead of the enemy ones, I am full zerk but not full ascended. I checked on build maker website and a full zerk ascended gear Chrono with 25 stacks of might would turn "Mind Stab" into a 1,300 damage skill.

Full ascended zerk Chrono has about 244% crit damage, 1300 x 2,44 = 3172

What am I missing?

Even if I had 25 stacks of vul the math does not check out. Unless I do not know how vul actually works.

Damage modifiers are applied not in mass, they are compounded. This is one of the reasons some of the prior nerf patches, like the, Feb 20 one may not have been needed if they just changed the way the numbers rolled up. So if you want to walk into how the number may have ended up, drop them in excel and apply each damage modifier in sequence and you can back yourself into various numbers. Websites like gw2skills.net can help some as well to see how might, and stacking sigils might have played factors. Hope that helps.

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6 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

Damage modifiers are applied not in mass, they are compounded. This is one of the reasons some of the prior nerf patches, like the, Feb 20 one may not have been needed if they just changed the way the numbers rolled up. So if you want to walk into how the number may have ended up, drop them in excel and apply each damage modifier in sequence and you can back yourself into various numbers. Websites like gw2skills.net can help some as well to see how might, and stacking sigils might have played factors. Hope that helps.

Yes, most replies on this thread were helpful.

I have been playing WvW, and only WvW, for roughly 2 months, I've seen mesmers all around but this specific chrono was the only one, so far, that is able to bring Mind Stab to over 9k damage.

I've also seen him doing it to other people, he just one shots them with Split Second followed by Mind Stab.

Either every other mesmer deliberately chooses not to do this build, whatever build it is, or this chrono knows something that most of other players do not, thus my pursuit to find more about whatever he is doing. I'll keep testing stuff out, but as someone said already, the golems in AB are a disappointment since you cannot add modifiers like vulnerability, lower or increase armor on the bot, or give myself 25 stacks of might, etc ... also having to pay 150 gems for something that both sPvP and PvE get for free makes me wonder.

Anyhow, thanks everyone for the answers and have fun!

Edited by Nanogrid.7283
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3 hours ago, Nanogrid.7283 said:

also having to pay 150 gems for something that both sPvP and PvE get for free makes me wonder.

🙂 Before mega-server WvW chat could be seen outside of WvW. You could call for help in the mists and people not in WvW could see it and help respond by jumping in. That was lost after the mega-server. Crafting was also removed from the HBLs after people complained about the fact that people would fill in WvW spots while they crafted. After successes with other lobbies AB was added and it included being able to see WvW chat and therefor call outs. I can't speak for others but AB being a place I could craft yet still watch out for call outs was a big drawing factor since crafting does require you to wait for bars crossing screens even if you would prefer to be doing other things.

Side note plug: ANet since you do want us to wait on bars crossing screens, can we please get WvW chat to show in Guild Halls so while we wait for siege to assemble we can watch for callouts or can you add Guild crafting to AB?

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4 hours ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

🙂 Before mega-server WvW chat could be seen outside of WvW. You could call for help in the mists and people not in WvW could see it and help respond by jumping in. That was lost after the mega-server.

Incase you're wondering why I put this, you could never see wvw map chat in pve, the only chat you can see anywhere is guild chat. Megaserver killed reinforcements because players use to go to the cities and ask for help for wvw, easy to do when 100% of everyone in the zone was on the same servers back then, not so much when megaservers mixes everyone up now.

Wvw team chat wasn't even a thing until oct 2016 either.

I'm guessing you worded that first part wrong. 🥓

Edited by XenesisII.1540
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12 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Incase you're wondering why I put this, you could never see wvw map chat in pve, the only chat you can see anywhere is guild chat. Megaserver killed reinforcements because players use to go to the cities and ask for help for wvw, easy to do when 100% of everyone in the zone was on the same servers back then, not so much when megaservers mixes everyone up now.

Wvw team chat wasn't even a thing until oct 2016 either.

I'm guessing you worded that first part wrong. 🥓

lol, appreciate the sanity check.

 

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