Secrets of the Obscure Balance Follow-Ups

[BALONEYPWNY.9258]

4 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

It's not gaslighting if it's true.

Lying and gaslighting are not the same thing, and lying is not a prerequisite for gaslighting.

[Obtena.7952]

13 minutes ago, BALONEYPWNY.9258 said:

Lying and gaslighting are not the same thing, and lying is not a prerequisite for gaslighting.

OK ... What I said was neither of those things. So what is your point?

Edited September 26, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[BALONEYPWNY.9258]

20 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

OK ... What I said was neither of those things. So what is your point?

Nope, not playing.  Thanks for the offer though.

[Astralporing.1957]

On 9/25/2023 at 7:17 PM, XenesisII.1540 said:

At one point in the past around hot, wvw had 30-40% player participation rates.

Do you have any source backing that?

[XenesisII.1540]

19 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Do you have any source backing that?

ugh it's like an 8 year old quote, I don't remember if it was an interview or one of them info charts they use to post. I guess if I'm going to use the number I might as well find it again, you'll have to wait a bit...

[Polar.8634]

This balance update is not relevant because it is PvE only. 

[Astralporing.1957]

8 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

ugh it's like an 8 year old quote, I don't remember if it was an interview or one of them info charts they use to post. I guess if I'm going to use the number I might as well find it again, you'll have to wait a bit...

I am asking because i sort of remember from around the same time some statements of devs mentioning something exact opposite - that only as much as 10% players ever bothered to play any of the two PvP modes. Unfortunately i cannot find it, and i do not remember anymore if it was something legit or just a rumour that was circling around at that time.

(hint: remember, that while it's indeed true that both SPvP and WvW had a lot more players then, it's equally true of PvE)

[XenesisII.1540]

13 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I am asking because i sort of remember from around the same time some statements of devs mentioning something exact opposite - that only as much as 10% players ever bothered to play any of the two PvP modes. Unfortunately i cannot find it, and i do not remember anymore if it was something legit or just a rumour that was circling around at that time.

(hint: remember, that while it's indeed true that both SPvP and WvW had a lot more players then, it's equally true of PvE)

I think it was related this this interview at pax, where they said typically if you're into wvw you're really into pve.

Can't find the full interview now, seems to have been scrubbed. 😕

Think I remember the 35-38% was for wvw, I've only heard like around the 10% mentioned for the raids, no clue about strikes or fractals, don't think they ever mentioned that.

[Polar.8634]

9 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

I think it was related this this interview at pax, where they said typically if you're into wvw you're really into pve.

Many of those play pve because they play wvw. Because pve is where they farm for wvw equipement. I don't talk for everybody, but i would not even attempt any legendary crafts if not wvw, and legendaries are pve endgame content. Ofc it is not like i hate pve, but i care about pve much less because if something is nerfed i can just farm on other spec.

[Warrior.9487]

On 9/20/2023 at 11:50 AM, soulknight.9620 said:

@Anet Im not here to whine or anything, but its 6 days till balance patch and we still havent got a patch preview. Are you guys changing your policy on communicating changes again?

Now you know why we never got some information about this patch.

This abysmally bad work of @Rubi Bayer.8493 , we would have torn this patch in the air

[DeceiverX.8361]

On 9/26/2023 at 7:29 PM, Astralporing.1957 said:

I am asking because i sort of remember from around the same time some statements of devs mentioning something exact opposite - that only as much as 10% players ever bothered to play any of the two PvP modes. Unfortunately i cannot find it, and i do not remember anymore if it was something legit or just a rumour that was circling around at that time.

(hint: remember, that while it's indeed true that both SPvP and WvW had a lot more players then, it's equally true of PvE)

The 10% number was about raids, shortly sometime before PoF dropped.  I remember distinctly laughing at how poorly-received the content the game being balanced around was received.  And it's lower now 🤣

[Obtena.7952]

On 9/30/2023 at 11:19 AM, Warrior.9487 said:

Now you know why we never got some information about this patch.

This abysmally bad work of @Rubi Bayer.8493 , we would have torn this patch in the air

That's absurd. You have no idea if they are responsible for preparing and releasing the patch previews. You're just salty because of your situation ... not hard to see how that happened either.  🙄

Edited October 3, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[reapex.8546]

On 9/30/2023 at 11:19 AM, Warrior.9487 said:

WE would have torn this patch in the air

You definitely don't speak for everyone

[Matoro.9708]

This thread has certainly spiraled. So, let me add:

Turrets.

[Mukizo.1269]

Soto balance -

• Remove all dps specific Relics (relics should be interesting additions that alters your play style, not just a flat dps increase. If this keeps up the revamp of runes are pointless)

• Significantly reduce dps over all classes. 35k should be max at condi. 30k max for power, with similar burst numbers to what we have now.

• Quickness and alac is removed from the game. Instead skills and actions are sped up accordingly - slightly below what they would be with the buff. Some special skills can give temporary bursts of these premium boons, but only temporary, not permanently like now.

• Might does not stack and cannot be maintained permanently, instead as the point above stated it can be provided in bursts. The might boon is now a 10% dps increase.

• More diversity among classes. Instead of everything doing equal dps with different skins, classes should feel distinct, with each their uniqueness and limitations. Guardian only has Aegis, Necro only has chill or fear, Engi only has kits (not FB), Theif only has stealth, etc.

• Tome Rework on Firebrand is scrapped. Instead only one Tome at a time can be equipped. Now it’s no longer an engineer kit but goes back as it used to be, without being 3 classes in one. Or make it like it used to be, with less dps than meta builds, still good aoe but 2-3k less single target dps than meta builds.

• Staff 5 revenant change/nerf is reverted, there is no longer charge up from the skill. PvP and WvW has bigger issues anyways.

• Arc divider is fixed.

• Classes and abilities feels less spammy. A more intelligent system is presented which will make it so that spamming the “best” dps skill off cooldown will no longer be necessary. I have no idea how this would be implemented, come with ideas. Some specs already feels pretty good, but way too spammy. Perhaps a global cooldown?

• Timing of evading is rewarded. If a perfect dodge is performed you will gain some health and endurance back.

• Healing from all healing specs is reduced, or their recourses are more limited. Now healing abilities are more risky to expend and cannot be spammed without thought. Self healing among some classes are improved.

•Most boons will be temporary burst effects and cannot be maintained permanently. Almost all current boons will be reworked and can only be uniquely provided by their respective classes.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

13 hours ago, Mukizo.1269 said:

More diversity among classes. Instead of everything doing equal dps with different skins, classes should feel distinct, with each their uniqueness and limitations. Guardian only has Aegis, Necro only has chill or fear, Engi only has kits (not FB), Theif only has stealth, etc.

No thank you. If you think GW2 professions are just skins for different roles, you do not understand GW2 class design. Professions and especs define a character's unique concept, theme, feel, toolbox, and playstyle. Much more than just aesthetic, without losing GW2's core value for its "bring the player, not the profession" philosophy. That's one of the things we like here over other games like WOW or FFIX where classes determine roles. The class system feels much more open and accessible when your choice focuses on how you play instead of what you can play and where you are accepted. Also certain especs are intended to blur the lines between professions to give you that multiclass feel from other games, including the secondary class system from GW: Prophesies.

I agree with most of your other points on DPS and boon overload.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Gaiawolf.8261

[Hallow.7368]

On 10/15/2023 at 12:01 AM, Mukizo.1269 said:

Soto balance -

• Remove all dps specific Relics (relics should be interesting additions that alters your play style, not just a flat dps increase. If this keeps up the revamp of runes are pointless)

• Significantly reduce dps over all classes. 35k should be max at condi. 30k max for power, with similar burst numbers to what we have now.

• Quickness and alac is removed from the game. Instead skills and actions are sped up accordingly - slightly below what they would be with the buff. Some special skills can give temporary bursts of these premium boons, but only temporary, not permanently like now.

• Might does not stack and cannot be maintained permanently, instead as the point above stated it can be provided in bursts. The might boon is now a 10% dps increase.

• More diversity among classes. Instead of everything doing equal dps with different skins, classes should feel distinct, with each their uniqueness and limitations. Guardian only has Aegis, Necro only has chill or fear, Engi only has kits (not FB), Theif only has stealth, etc.

• Tome Rework on Firebrand is scrapped. Instead only one Tome at a time can be equipped. Now it’s no longer an engineer kit but goes back as it used to be, without being 3 classes in one. Or make it like it used to be, with less dps than meta builds, still good aoe but 2-3k less single target dps than meta builds.

• Staff 5 revenant change/nerf is reverted, there is no longer charge up from the skill. PvP and WvW has bigger issues anyways.

• Arc divider is fixed.

• Classes and abilities feels less spammy. A more intelligent system is presented which will make it so that spamming the “best” dps skill off cooldown will no longer be necessary. I have no idea how this would be implemented, come with ideas. Some specs already feels pretty good, but way too spammy. Perhaps a global cooldown?

• Timing of evading is rewarded. If a perfect dodge is performed you will gain some health and endurance back.

• Healing from all healing specs is reduced, or their recourses are more limited. Now healing abilities are more risky to expend and cannot be spammed without thought. Self healing among some classes are improved.

•Most boons will be temporary burst effects and cannot be maintained permanently. Almost all current boons will be reworked and can only be uniquely provided by their respective classes.

A large part of the things you listed were what we had before/around the drop of EoD. Nobody enjoyed it. The problem with things like aegis coming only from guard and having low access to boons is simple: the meta is literally just to bring and probably even stack the classes that bring the best boon uptimes.

 

On top of that your idea of boon changes also instantly kills boon support builds. Why would you dedicate an entire slot to a support with concentration stats when it just drops their damage to boost there infrequent boon application to slightly less infrequent?

 

Overall you just kill build diversity, not enhance it. Boons are too baked into the core design of the game at this point. All they can do at this point is make them more accessible to lower the abnormally steep curve between new players and veteran players. Lowering the impact of boons so substantially will just delete builds from the game. And then depending on the state of them post nerf your either stack the classes with the most uptime of boons without losing much personal damage or you just run 4 DPS and a healer and ignore them. It's polarizing and unhealthy for the game state.

[Burnfall.9573]