Rework of fractals in future expansion

[TheNurgle.4825]

So SOTO changed runes and introduced relics. I see that most ppl like the change and we are disappointed by relic skills be it variety or description and that can be improved in future.

Now if you could do similar change or changes to fractals what would you like to change?

For me it would be:

1. rework agony resist – make it account bound, maybe additional slot in equipment tab
2. streamline tiers – do we really need 4 fractal tiers? most ppl finish T2 or T3 progression via T4, also why we have same fractal twice in one tier?
   • remove 2 tiers like T1 and T3 with T2 having 2 active instabilities
   • add CM to T2 so new ppl can try harder content and train for T4 CM
3. instead of new fractals add more CM to already existing fractals – lower dev cost and ppl will be happy to get new bosses with new mechnics to fight

 

Last thing I saw in game chat or maybe on forum was adding current dungeons as fractals. I am still not sure how I feel about it. It does not sound as bad idea, but something feel wrong about it.

[Linken.6345]

Were did you see that most people like the relic change?

and nah 4 tiers is needed otherwise people would be why so hard to do t2 (the now t4).

The agony resist is not a problem the game litteraly throws +1 while doing fractals, that you then can upgrade to how big you want at the kitty golem dont even need artificer anymore.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

Removing tier without adjusting difficulty will just lead to complaints that Fractals are difficult. The best part in Fractals is that it doesn't matter if you've just hit level 80 T1 Fractals are easy enough to get the basics instead of throwing you into deep water. Some Fractals appear twice per tier because there's only 22 unique Fractals, but a tier has 25 Fractals.

Adding CM to 97-100 at lower tiers could work, the only issue would be ajusting rewards. 

[Nimris.3781]

• currently getting ascends is so easy that i am not sure it is an issue anymore, also agony+9 is much cheaper than few years ago... maybe they could change agony impendence to give +10 per upgrade instead of +5 ( total +40 instead of +20) as account wide upgrade to make it easier for alts/ other specs?
• tho we sort of need more than 2 tiers, T1 is made with unorganized group without supports in mind and T4 require boon coverage and are actually hard ( not every fractal, but some are) you must have something inbetween or going from T1 to T4 would feel like crashing into a wall. maybe... they could remove T1 (with powercreep its already too easy) and make it just 3 ( current 2-3-4)... but than they would have to give up with 100 fractal levels and change it to... 75? this would look wierd, a round 100 levels look decent. and if they went with 3 tiers with 22 fractals each they would have to scrap fractal level entirely and few other related things which with spaghetti code could break the game >.>
• CM on lower tiers is terrible idea, how would you balance dmg/mechanics so stuff like Dark AI sorrows or lasers/fears? not dealing with sorrows still 1-shot? fear/laser deal ~70% of hp?  than whats the difference compared to learning it in proper 99cm?  if Sorrows dont 1-shot and fears do mere 20% than there is no point in this low tier cm. cm's have to be hard so you cant really scale them down
• most of current fractals would be terrible CM material, not every fight can be changed for proper boss fight. imagine doing underground facility puzzle everyday, or deepstone... uncategorized doesnt even have proper boss fight...  non cm's want you to do every step, a bit of jp here, small mini boss there, side objective and short boss fight at the end and done. i cant think of any fractal that could be changed into cm without it being horrible or too short.

about dungeons as fractals... dungeons have chains of small objectives, no jp and are much longer, they would have to do major cutting there (like 50% of single path?). hard to say, maybe?

but overal i would like to see something new added, not reskin of something i have seen already multiple times (be it dungeon or old fractal as new cm).

[Zohane.7208]

7 hours ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

So SOTO changed runes and introduced relics. I see that most ppl like the change and we are disappointed by relic skills be it variety or description and that can be improved in future.

Now if you could do similar change or changes to fractals what would you like to change?

For me it would be:

1. rework agony resist – make it account bound, maybe additional slot in equipment tab
2. streamline tiers – do we really need 4 fractal tiers? most ppl finish T2 or T3 progression via T4, also why we have same fractal twice in one tier?
   • remove 2 tiers like T1 and T3 with T2 having 2 active instabilities
   • add CM to T2 so new ppl can try harder content and train for T4 CM
3. instead of new fractals add more CM to already existing fractals – lower dev cost and ppl will be happy to get new bosses with new mechnics to fight

 

Last thing I saw in game chat or maybe on forum was adding current dungeons as fractals. I am still not sure how I feel about it. It does not sound as bad idea, but something feel wrong about it.

I levelled fractals not too long ago, and I gotta say that 4 tiers was actually quite right  for me. T1 was where I could learn the basics of the different fractals without worrying too much about anything, then T2 started to introduce a little bit of mechanics that actually hurt - still without needing to organize too much. T3 was where it really became apparent that fractals require that mechanics be understood in order to be able to win. Then of course T4 was where it all came together with teams where the roles mattered and team builds got sort of important.

I'd sure hate for new people to not have this learning opportunity - not everyone's a hard core expert from the start...

[TheNurgle.4825]

4 minutes ago, Nimris.3781 said:

• tho we sort of need more than 2 tiers, T1 is made with unorganized group without supports in mind and T4 require boon coverage and are actually hard ( not every fractal, but some are) you must have something inbetween or going from T1 to T4 would feel like crashing into a wall. maybe... they could remove T1 (with powercreep its already too easy) and make it just 3 ( current 2-3-4)... but than they would have to give up with 100 fractal levels and change it to... 75? this would look wierd, a round 100 levels look decent. and if they went with 3 tiers with 22 fractals each they would have to scrap fractal level entirely and few other related things which with spaghetti code could break the game >.>

You dont really need organized group with supports for T2 and you don't need boon coverage for T4.

11 minutes ago, Nimris.3781 said:

• CM on lower tiers is terrible idea, how would you balance dmg/mechanics so stuff like Dark AI sorrows or lasers/fears? not dealing with sorrows still 1-shot? fear/laser deal ~70% of hp?  than whats the difference compared to learning it in proper 99cm?  if Sorrows dont 1-shot and fears do mere 20% than there is no point in this low tier cm. cm's have to be hard so you cant really scale them down

Tweaking numbers for it is not that hard, bosses have lower HP and do less dmg in lower tier so you could get more ppl to actually learn CM and get higher population for T4 CM. If you think about it you have 3 tiers to learn fractals before t4 and nothing for CM.

13 minutes ago, Nimris.3781 said:

• most of current fractals would be terrible CM material, not every fight can be changed for proper boss fight. imagine doing underground facility puzzle everyday, or deepstone... uncategorized doesnt even have proper boss fight...  non cm's want you to do every step, a bit of jp here, small mini boss there, side objective and short boss fight at the end and done. i cant think of any fractal that could be changed into cm without it being horrible or too short.

Why you can not change any current boss in existing fractal to CM boss? You can rework any boss fight in any fractal to CM and from dev point of view it is faster and easier than adding new fractal since you can reuse some assets and add something new.  Also why would you need to do it everyday?

[TheNurgle.4825]

10 minutes ago, Zohane.7208 said:

I levelled fractals not too long ago, and I gotta say that 4 tiers was actually quite right  for me. T1 was where I could learn the basics of the different fractals without worrying too much about anything, then T2 started to introduce a little bit of mechanics that actually hurt - still without needing to organize too much. T3 was where it really became apparent that fractals require that mechanics be understood in order to be able to win. Then of course T4 was where it all came together with teams where the roles mattered and team builds got sort of important.

I'd sure hate for new people to not have this learning opportunity - not everyone's a hard core expert from the start...

Ok. What would happen if you did not do T1? Do you think that you would suffer more in T2?

[Zohane.7208]

2 minutes ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

Ok. What would happen if you did not do T1? Do you think that you would suffer more in T2?

Yes, very much so. Take for example Swampland; on T1 the time limit for wasps in  very long - like 90 secods or something. This gives people the chance to actually make the wisps happen without knowing the correct paths, so the feeling of "being able to do it" can actually happen. On T2 the time limit is the same as T4 so you pretty much need to know how in order to be able to do it. I suspect (yes yes, I of course can't prove it) that a lot of people would find this rather simple task insurmountable if T1 wasn't there.

There's other examples too, like uncategorized or sunqua where the T1-T2 different matters for the ability to learn the basics.

[TheNurgle.4825]

6 minutes ago, Zohane.7208 said:

Yes, very much so. Take for example Swampland; on T1 the time limit for wasps in  very long - like 90 secods or something. This gives people the chance to actually make the wisps happen without knowing the correct paths, so the feeling of "being able to do it" can actually happen. On T2 the time limit is the same as T4 so you pretty much need to know how in order to be able to do it. I suspect (yes yes, I of course can't prove it) that a lot of people would find this rather simple task insurmountable if T1 wasn't there.

There's other examples too, like uncategorized or sunqua where the T1-T2 different matters for the ability to learn the basics.

Swamland on T2 has 38secs and on T4 it is 30 secs. Dunno where I wrote it, but T4 swampland has issue with that time limit since you can have ppl really struggling with it or complete it in 10 secs by using portals either as skills or as item. So for me this is more about design/dev update needed like make it 45secs for T2 amd 35 secs for T4 with removing option to use portals while you carry wisp.

 

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

Swamland on T2 has 38secs and on T4 it is 30 secs. Dunno where I wrote it, but T4 swampland has issue with that time limit since you can have ppl really struggling with it or complete it in 10 secs by using portals either as skills or as item. So for me this is more about design/dev update needed like make it 45secs for T2 amd 35 secs for T4 with removing option to use portals while you carry wisp.

 

Nope here is were boon coverage is a thing there is both swiftness and superspeed no need for longer whisp times.

Or you could just use the guns laying around on the floor.

Edited September 21 by Linken.6345

[Nimris.3781]

1 hour ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

You dont really need organized group with supports for T2 and you don't need boon coverage for T4.

what do you mean "you dont need boon coverage for T4"? are you doing T4 without quick, alac, might and waste over 1h just for T4? how do you even find group for this?

T2 doesnt need supports if you have decent group, but try doing them without elite spec and proper rotation. T1 and T2 are tailored for groups like that

1 hour ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

Tweaking numbers for it is not that hard, bosses have lower HP and do less dmg in lower tier so you could get more ppl to actually learn CM and get higher population for T4 CM. If you think about it you have 3 tiers to learn fractals before t4 and nothing for CM.

i feel like you dont even understand basics here and what CM is. what numbers tweaking? whats the point of CM if you can ignore mechanics because you number-tweaked them? if you make sorrows not 1-shot group when they fail to cc/kill them than noone will understand they should do it (will ignore it) and learning CM becomes pointless

just look at silent surf eye mechanic (dreadful visage), on nm it fears on cm it kills, how do you "tweak" it for lower tier?

1 hour ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

Why you can not change any current boss in existing fractal to CM boss? You can rework any boss fight in any fractal to CM and from dev point of view it is faster and easier than adding new fractal since you can reuse some assets and add something new.  Also why would you need to do it everyday?

a) noone wants copy-pasted content. i want new fractal with well done boss fight that has engaging mechanics, not some "x5 HP and go" - that reason alone should be enough...

b) why everyday? cm fractal reward reset daily, (infusions, tonics, integrated matrices, ufe etc.) ... you do know how frac CM's work?

c) a lot of old fractals are made as series of various objectives, they dont have any boss fight e.g solid ocean, uncategorized, aetherblade or fights are very simple and quick without mechanics, e.g chaos, molten boss, molten furnance, snowblind, thaumanova, urban battleground etc.

its hard to find any boss that could be changed into proper cm (maybe Amala from twilight oasis, but she is already annoying enough)

in short: No 

[TexZero.7910]

Okay....

Humor me and the various other out there with several kitted out fractal characters with over 150AR on each (or more in some cases)...
How do you propose we are reimbursed for our agony investment and please don't say turn them into consumables for an account wide progress. If you attempt to go down that route i'll easily have over 2k global agony resist which would neccisistate that ANet places a hard cap on global AR scaling, changes the % values of AR conversion on potions as well as also changes how much AR is needed per Tier due to giga busted account AR inflation.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

1 hour ago, TexZero.7910 said:

Okay....

Humor me and the various other out there with several kitted out fractal characters with over 150AR on each (or more in some cases)...
How do you propose we are reimbursed for our agony investment and please don't say turn them into consumables for an account wide progress. If you attempt to go down that route i'll easily have over 2k global agony resist which would neccisistate that ANet places a hard cap on global AR scaling, changes the % values of AR conversion on potions as well as also changes how much AR is needed per Tier due to giga busted account AR inflation.

150 agony  in the Mustic forge+Philosopher Stone + 2x extra = Skin gambling/Revive Orb form the gemstore.

Easy !

Pople will keep doing fractals to collect them again and gamble . Or give it to other modes

 

Or the company should create a system that tracks how many gold you get from Fractals in these 3 previous years (database) and if you spent more than you got , you get get gold back

(with a rought estimation a person getting 30gold x 30days= 900 gold ... so he made his investment back)

 

Edited September 22 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[TheNurgle.4825]

11 hours ago, Nimris.3781 said:

what do you mean "you dont need boon coverage for T4"? are you doing T4 without quick, alac, might and waste over 1h just for T4? how do you even find group for this?

It does not take hour without quick, alac and might maybe 30 mins. You did not even have alac in game for period of time. Most T4 fractal bosses die in 1-4 mins without boons without alac so yea.

11 hours ago, Nimris.3781 said:

i feel like you dont even understand basics here and what CM is. what numbers tweaking? whats the point of CM if you can ignore mechanics because you number-tweaked them? if you make sorrows not 1-shot group when they fail to cc/kill them than noone will understand they should do it (will ignore it) and learning CM becomes pointless

just look at silent surf eye mechanic (dreadful visage), on nm it fears on cm it kills, how do you "tweak" it for lower tier?

I do understand them that is why it is sad. First you ask several question how lower tier CM would work and when I answer that it is need to be tweaked like anything in game is tweaked over time being it current content or new content and you write that it would not work. Things change in MMOs all the time do you remember fractals on launch and fractals now?

11 hours ago, Nimris.3781 said:

a) noone wants copy-pasted content. i want new fractal with well done boss fight that has engaging mechanics, not some "x5 HP and go" - that reason alone should be enough...

b) why everyday? cm fractal reward reset daily, (infusions, tonics, integrated matrices, ufe etc.) ... you do know how frac CM's work?

c) a lot of old fractals are made as series of various objectives, they dont have any boss fight e.g solid ocean, uncategorized, aetherblade or fights are very simple and quick without mechanics, e.g chaos, molten boss, molten furnance, snowblind, thaumanova, urban battleground etc.

its hard to find any boss that could be changed into proper cm (maybe Amala from twilight oasis, but she is already annoying enough)

in short: No 

a) You want new fractal. ANET has all the data about how many ppl actually doing fractals and closest to data we can get is gw2efficiency. From it you can see that CM related achivements were done by 10% to 18% of the population using gw2efficiency. Percentage will be lower since a lot ppl do not use gw2efficiency. Why do you think that CMs bugs are "ignored", because it is played by small minority of players. Common planning for bugfixes is simple more ppl affected=higher priority.

b)I do know how it works and if you feel pressured to play MMO content everyday, then go seek professional help or at least talk to your family or friends about it. I know that it does not sound good and you will read it as "attack", but I really mean it in good will. If you or anyone else feel that you need to play PC game everyday or you miss out something, then you are addicted and that is not healthy. At least try to talk to your friends or family about it.

c) how do you think that current CMs were created? How do you think new content is added to game? How do you think new CM strikes are created? You can add CM to any current fractal without any issues.

[TheNurgle.4825]

8 hours ago, TexZero.7910 said:

Okay....

Humor me and the various other out there with several kitted out fractal characters with over 150AR on each (or more in some cases)...
How do you propose we are reimbursed for our agony investment and please don't say turn them into consumables for an account wide progress. If you attempt to go down that route i'll easily have over 2k global agony resist which would neccisistate that ANet places a hard cap on global AR scaling, changes the % values of AR conversion on potions as well as also changes how much AR is needed per Tier due to giga busted account AR inflation.

Why you should be reimbursed? If you buy graphic card and 1 year later new one is released do you get reimbursed? If you play MMO spending real money it and time and they close servers, then do you also want to get reimbursed?

You played the game and I hope that you enjoyed it. You spend your time and who know maybe real money to get agony resist on multiple chars, but you did it because you want to play game with multiple chars with your friends. Please keep in mind that real value of your account is 0. Time you spend playing games is also kind of wasted.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

6 hours ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

Why you should be reimbursed? If you buy graphic card and 1 year later new one is released do you get reimbursed? If you play MMO spending real money it and time and they close servers, then do you also want to get reimbursed?

You played the game and I hope that you enjoyed it. You spend your time and who know maybe real money to get agony resist on multiple chars, but you did it because you want to play game with multiple chars with your friends. Please keep in mind that real value of your account is 0. Time you spend playing games is also kind of wasted.

You're proposing changes to a system people are invested in, you won't gather support from anyone this way.

[Nimris.3781]

7 hours ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

It does not take hour without quick, alac and might maybe 30 mins. You did not even have alac in game for period of time. Most T4 fractal bosses die in 1-4 mins without boons without alac so yea.

i really want to see you doing mai-trin, twilight oasis, sirens reef, aquatic or any of 97-100 without boons. in fact almost every fractal would pose difficulties except stuff that doesnt have too much fighting ( e.g solid ocean or swampland)

currently you need about ~8-10 min per fractal depending on group dps and skips and that includes loadings, etc. your "maybe 30 min without quick, alac and might" is just impossible. standard T4 group spends up to 30 min with proper boons for 3xt4's, you would know that if you did fractals frequently.

7 hours ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

I do understand them that is why it is sad. First you ask several question how lower tier CM would work and when I answer that it is need to be tweaked like anything in game is tweaked over time being it current content or new content and you write that it would not work. Things change in MMOs all the time do you remember fractals on launch and fractals now?

you dont understand basic concepts like difficulty or what challange mode is, that is sad.

you ignored questions about numbers tweaking, how do you tweak stuff that deals high dmg and is supposed to kill you if you take too much hits? whats even is the point of cm if you just make it easy? you learn nothing if mechanics can be ignored and boss will be bursted in less than 1min

fractals have well working cm modes that does not require any tweaking. cm's are next step after t4, not a separate mode.

7 hours ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

a) You want new fractal. ANET has all the data about how many ppl actually doing fractals and closest to data we can get is gw2efficiency. From it you can see that CM related achivements were done by 10% to 18% of the population using gw2efficiency. Percentage will be lower since a lot ppl do not use gw2efficiency. Why do you think that CMs bugs are "ignored", because it is played by small minority of players. Common planning for bugfixes is simple more ppl affected=higher priority.

b)I do know how it works and if you feel pressured to play MMO content everyday, then go seek professional help or at least talk to your family or friends about it. I know that it does not sound good and you will read it as "attack", but I really mean it in good will. If you or anyone else feel that you need to play PC game everyday or you miss out something, then you are addicted and that is not healthy. At least try to talk to your friends or family about it.

c) how do you think that current CMs were created? How do you think new content is added to game? How do you think new CM strikes are created? You can add CM to any current fractal without any issues.

a) 10-18% is huge part of playerbase for endgame content, thats why we got silent surf and there is 1 more fractal planned in current expansion. in fact probably more players do fractals than raids or pvp

cm bugs are not ingored and they are working on them, and should be addressed in next weeks patch (same with 49k scourge). Soto content has priority which is obvious

b)  just lol.

c) yea not really, 97-98:  boss-> bunch of mobs -> boss -> boss.     99-100: one long traversal (skipped in cm) ->big boss

other fractals: objective1 -> jp/labyrinth -> objective2 -> objective3 -> small boss with barely any mechanics or no boss fight

in non-cm fractals you spend most of the time doing various objectives like carrying objects (guns, bombs, spirits etc) or traversing labyrinths while dealing with regular mobs, some fractals dont even have boss fights at all. cm's are designed around boss fights.

like i already said, if you did fractals frequently you would realize all of that

Edited September 22 by Nimris.3781

[TexZero.7910]

On 9/22/2023 at 2:19 AM, TheNurgle.4825 said:

Why you should be reimbursed? If you buy graphic card and 1 year later new one is released do you get reimbursed? If you play MMO spending real money it and time and they close servers, then do you also want to get reimbursed?

You played the game and I hope that you enjoyed it. You spend your time and who know maybe real money to get agony resist on multiple chars, but you did it because you want to play game with multiple chars with your friends. Please keep in mind that real value of your account is 0. Time you spend playing games is also kind of wasted.

Why should anything i do in this game be invalidated for your petty amusement is the better question.

Sorry you don't feel like investing your time into multiple characters and want a systems change that will actively be either too tedious or ultimately detrimental with many negatives as i already pointed out. The value of my account may be 0 in your eyes but that only showcases how poorly you think of your own account/time/investment.

You wont be getting a further response from me as it's pretty clear you're way too shortsighted to understand not only the gameplay reprecussions but also the economic ones that your systems change would have on the game.

Edited September 24 by TexZero.7910

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

On 9/21/2023 at 7:16 AM, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Removing tier without adjusting difficulty will just lead to complaints that Fractals are difficult. The best part in Fractals is that it doesn't matter if you've just hit level 80 T1 Fractals are easy enough to get the basics instead of throwing you into deep water. Some Fractals appear twice per tier because there's only 22 unique Fractals, but a tier has 25 Fractals.

Adding CM to 97-100 at lower tiers could work, the only issue would be ajusting rewards. 

unless they locked it down in recent years, you can actually enter the first tier of fractals without being anywhere close to level 80. you just couldn't join the groups on lfg with a leveling character as the categories are locked, but you could enter with a friend.

Edited September 24 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

On 9/21/2023 at 5:42 PM, TexZero.7910 said:

Okay....

Humor me and the various other out there with several kitted out fractal characters with over 150AR on each (or more in some cases)...
How do you propose we are reimbursed for our agony investment and please don't say turn them into consumables for an account wide progress. If you attempt to go down that route i'll easily have over 2k global agony resist which would neccisistate that ANet places a hard cap on global AR scaling, changes the % values of AR conversion on potions as well as also changes how much AR is needed per Tier due to giga busted account AR inflation.

we have had many, many previously character-bound systems that were made account-bound, and players rarely complained because it ends up being considerably more convenient in the long run. the whole idea that arenanet somehow ruins your account by giving you something is a falsehood.

 

all of those agony infusions immediately become sellable and make everyone who stockpiled massive amounts of gold.

 

think about it, its like saying "how do you compensate me for crafting a legendary backpiece when i already had 20 ascended backpieces?". yes, it sucks to have to salvage all your ascended backpieces and sell the materials, but you got something much better as a result.

Edited September 24 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Shadow Chaser.1948]

On 9/21/2023 at 6:42 PM, TexZero.7910 said:

Okay....

Humor me and the various other out there with several kitted out fractal characters with over 150AR on each (or more in some cases)...
How do you propose we are reimbursed for our agony investment and please don't say turn them into consumables for an account wide progress. If you attempt to go down that route i'll easily have over 2k global agony resist which would neccisistate that ANet places a hard cap on global AR scaling, changes the % values of AR conversion on potions as well as also changes how much AR is needed per Tier due to giga busted account AR inflation.

I am sure Anet can find a way. They fixed rune & relic on legendary 🙂

Though I do not agree OPs most of of the points. I'd love to see account wide AR. Remind you that I have 6 Toons with 150 AR while 2 of them have over 200.

 

Edited September 24 by Shadow Chaser.1948

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

2 hours ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

unless they locked it down in recent years, you can actually enter the first tier of fractals without being anywhere close to level 80. you just couldn't join the groups on lfg with a leveling character as the categories are locked, but you could enter with a friend.

I tried to enter the Fractal lobby about a year ago on my alt, which at the time was only a Heroic account and it wouldn't let me enter before I hit level 80, however, once I hit level 80 on one character I could ender the Fractal lobby on other non level 80 characters.

[Radiancee.6537]

No thanks.

People are invested in fractals since this system and its scaling works extremely well.

[Nephalem.8921]

On 9/22/2023 at 4:39 PM, Nimris.3781 said:

i really want to see you doing mai-trin, twilight oasis, sirens reef, aquatic or any of 97-100 without boons. in fact almost every fractal would pose difficulties except stuff that doesnt have too much fighting ( e.g solid ocean or swampland)

currently you need about ~8-10 min per fractal depending on group dps and skips and that includes loadings, etc. your "maybe 30 min without quick, alac and might" is just impossible. standard T4 group spends up to 30 min with proper boons for 3xt4's, you would know that if you did fractals frequently.

That depends on specs played. If you have multiple weavers for example you would have a terrible time but with reapers or just scourge stack it would not really matter. Scourge does 35k dps or something without boons currently. It is busted.

It is very possible to do normal t4s in 30min without boon supports. Either if you play self buffing specs or spec broken stuff. A lot of builds would feel horrible to play. Weaver does not even have self fury on its meta build. Builds are not equal in that area.

And tbh most alac supports are so bad that they barely break even compared to a 1 quick 4dps comp. Alac is only a ~14-15% dps increase. So your alac doing 9k dps on enso or siax is costing you dps and time compared to a 4th dps.

[Curennos.9307]

The agony system being locked specifically to a particular piece of gear is why I have never done them. I like to play different characters and builds on a daily basis - being locked to one out of all of them because Reasons(TM) is awful. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy dungeon type content - I just can't be bothered to deal with a mechanic that's so pointlessly hostile to the player.