More “paths” to legendary gear...

[Aeolus.3615]

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Loosmaster.8263 said:

@"Game of Bones.8975" said:No one has come up with a good reason why core PvE shouldn't have a new dedicated Legendary line.Not everyone has the expansions...should they be unable to craft their own Legendaries?Most everyone can defend the Raids, PvP, WvW, and Fractals having their own items and that's all good.

Raids are your PvE access. Core will open access to F2P? I think they should remain and tied to the expansions.

Just my 2 cents which is really worth alot...

Raids are not PvE.

WHUT?????? no they must be a"very special" kind of thing..... pvp against mobs????

Pve players logic... WvW is pve.. raid is not pve xD, sorry cant stop laughing with that comment.

[zoomborg.9462]

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Loosmaster.8263 said:

@Game of Bones.8975 said:No one has come up with a good reason why core PvE shouldn't have a new dedicated Legendary line.Not everyone has the expansions...should they be unable to craft their own Legendaries?Most everyone can defend the Raids, PvP, WvW, and Fractals having their own items and that's all good.

Raids are your PvE access. Core will open access to F2P? I think they should remain and tied to the expansions.

Just my 2 cents which is really worth alot...

Raids are not PvE.

PvE means Player vs Environment which makes raids by all accounts PvE.

[STIHL.2489]

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Loosmaster.8263 said:

@Game of Bones.8975 said:No one has come up with a good reason why core PvE shouldn't have a new dedicated Legendary line.Not everyone has the expansions...should they be unable to craft their own Legendaries?Most everyone can defend the Raids, PvP, WvW, and Fractals having their own items and that's all good.

Raids are your PvE access. Core will open access to F2P? I think they should remain and tied to the expansions.

Just my 2 cents which is really worth alot...

Raids are not PvE.

I laughed, given that thee does seem to be an awful lot of PvP hostility in raids...

[Ohoni.6057]

@zoomborg.9462 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Loosmaster.8263 said:

@Game of Bones.8975 said:No one has come up with a good reason why core PvE shouldn't have a new dedicated Legendary line.Not everyone has the expansions...should they be unable to craft their own Legendaries?Most everyone can defend the Raids, PvP, WvW, and Fractals having their own items and that's all good.

Raids are your PvE access. Core will open access to F2P? I think they should remain and tied to the expansions.

Just my 2 cents which is really worth alot...

Raids are not PvE.

PvE means Player vs Environment which makes raids by all accounts PvE.

PvP means player verses player, which makes WvW by all accounts PvP, and yet the game rather firmly differentiates between the two.

The simple and indisputable fact here is that the majority of the players in this game play the PvE open world content, but do NOT play raids, so trying to claim that raids should be considered a natural extension of other PvE in the game completely ignores how players actually engage with the content.

[Loosmaster.8263]

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@zoomborg.9462 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Loosmaster.8263 said:

@Game of Bones.8975 said:No one has come up with a good reason why core PvE shouldn't have a new dedicated Legendary line.Not everyone has the expansions...should they be unable to craft their own Legendaries?Most everyone can defend the Raids, PvP, WvW, and Fractals having their own items and that's all good.

Raids are your PvE access. Core will open access to F2P? I think they should remain and tied to the expansions.

Just my 2 cents which is really worth alot...

Raids are not PvE.

PvE means Player vs Environment which makes raids by all accounts PvE.

PvP means player verses player, which makes WvW by all accounts PvP, and yet the game rather firmly differentiates between the two.

The simple and indisputable fact here is that the majority of the players in this game play the PvE open world content, but do NOT play raids, so trying to claim that raids should be considered a natural extension of other PvE in the game completely ignores how players actually engage with the content.

True that both are PvP but one is group and gear limited and the other is not. PvE/Raids all use the same format.

[Ohoni.6057]

@Loosmaster.8263 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@zoomborg.9462 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Loosmaster.8263 said:

@Game of Bones.8975 said:No one has come up with a good reason why core PvE shouldn't have a new dedicated Legendary line.Not everyone has the expansions...should they be unable to craft their own Legendaries?Most everyone can defend the Raids, PvP, WvW, and Fractals having their own items and that's all good.

Raids are your PvE access. Core will open access to F2P? I think they should remain and tied to the expansions.

Just my 2 cents which is really worth alot...

Raids are not PvE.

PvE means Player vs Environment which makes raids by all accounts PvE.

PvP means player verses player, which makes WvW by all accounts PvP, and yet the game rather firmly differentiates between the two.

The simple and indisputable fact here is that the majority of the players in this game play the PvE open world content, but do NOT play raids, so trying to claim that raids should be considered a natural extension of other PvE in the game completely ignores how players actually engage with the content.

True that both are PvP but one is group and gear limited and the other is not. PvE/Raids all use the same format.

True that both raids and open world are technically PvE but one is group and gear limited and the other is not. PvP/WvW all use the same format.

[Loosmaster.8263]

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Loosmaster.8263 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@zoomborg.9462 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Loosmaster.8263 said:

@"Game of Bones.8975" said:No one has come up with a good reason why core PvE shouldn't have a new dedicated Legendary line.Not everyone has the expansions...should they be unable to craft their own Legendaries?Most everyone can defend the Raids, PvP, WvW, and Fractals having their own items and that's all good.

Raids are your PvE access. Core will open access to F2P? I think they should remain and tied to the expansions.

Just my 2 cents which is really worth alot...

Raids are not PvE.

PvE means Player vs Environment which makes raids by all accounts PvE.

PvP means player verses player, which makes WvW by all accounts PvP, and yet the game rather firmly differentiates between the two.

The simple and indisputable fact here is that the majority of the players in this game play the PvE open world content, but do NOT play raids, so trying to claim that raids should be considered a natural extension of other PvE in the game completely ignores how players actually engage with the content.

True that both are PvP but one is group and gear limited and the other is not. PvE/Raids all use the same format.

True that both raids and open world are technically PvE but one is group and gear limited and the other is not. PvP/WvW all use the same format.

What ever... let's try this. "Functionality". Of the 3 game modes, in which order would you prioritize the need?

As far as I'm concerned, PvP was a flat out reward.

Edit: Let me know what happens when you take your PvE gear into PvP.

[Ohoni.6057]

@Loosmaster.8263 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Loosmaster.8263 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@zoomborg.9462 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Loosmaster.8263 said:

@"Game of Bones.8975" said:No one has come up with a good reason why core PvE shouldn't have a new dedicated Legendary line.Not everyone has the expansions...should they be unable to craft their own Legendaries?Most everyone can defend the Raids, PvP, WvW, and Fractals having their own items and that's all good.

Raids are your PvE access. Core will open access to F2P? I think they should remain and tied to the expansions.

Just my 2 cents which is really worth alot...

Raids are not PvE.

PvE means Player vs Environment which makes raids by all accounts PvE.

PvP means player verses player, which makes WvW by all accounts PvP, and yet the game rather firmly differentiates between the two.

The simple and indisputable fact here is that the majority of the players in this game play the PvE open world content, but do NOT play raids, so trying to claim that raids should be considered a natural extension of other PvE in the game completely ignores how players actually engage with the content.

True that both are PvP but one is group and gear limited and the other is not. PvE/Raids all use the same format.

True that both raids and open world are technically PvE but one is group and gear limited and the other is not. PvP/WvW all use the same format.

What ever... let's try this. "Functionality". Of the 3 game modes, in which order would you prioritize the need?

As far as I'm concerned, PvP was a flat out reward.

Edit: Let me know what happens when you take your PvE gear into PvP.

No one "needs" much of anything. PvP has zero need for more than white gear, WvW only "needs" it because the devs have said so, but there's already significant scaling there so they could move to the sPvP model if they wanted. Honestly, I think at this point ALL modes should move to the sPvP mode, where the stats you have are just picked off a list, rather than having to build entire sets of armor to fit whatever the new meta is.

[Game of Bones.8975]

OK, how about differentiating between open world gaming and group gaming? Raids, WvW, PvP, and Dungeons et al are a different "monster" than open world gaming. They require a different mindset of player.I'm saying that a new player should be able to buy the core game and craft the same levels of armor/weapons/trinkets that those with the expansions are able. You won't be able to craft Gen 2 Legendary weapons without HoT or PoF-bound items, but that's the offset for buying those expansions.

[Seera.5916]

Open world PvE as it stands right now is not set up to make legendary armor even possible to obtain. There's nothing about open world PvE that shows skill or dedication.

Which is currently what all legendary armor requires: a combination of skill and dedication, plus open world activities, because you have to have a bunch of mats that you either have to farm for or farm the gold to buy.

So if they give open world it's own legendary armor, it should be like the same as ascended: no special effects or aura's. Plain Jane, you wouldn't know it was legendary just by looking at it unless you knew what the skin looked like. IE: you get just the functionality of legendary armor.

But each mode should have it's own unique skin and the WvW ones should be given their own skins and not just C&P from the ascended version.

[Tails.9372]

@Seera.5916 said:There's nothing about open world PvE that shows skill or dedication.Going by that logic you could say the same about the WvW armor, but I would argue that killing a s**t ton of world bosses, completing countless big meta events and throwing half a fortune at it shows at least dedication.

@Seera.5916 said:So if they give open world it's own legendary armor, it should be like the same as ascended: no special effects or aura's. Plain Jane, you wouldn't know it was legendary just by looking at it unless you knew what the skin looked like.Besides the fact that this is a completely nonsensical thing to ask for given that even the ascended WvW set has its own special effects, OW PvM doesn't even have a general ascended armor set to base a legendary set off of.

[Loosmaster.8263]

@Tails.9372 said:

@Seera.5916 said:There's nothing about open world PvE that shows skill or dedication.Going by that logic you could say the same about the WvW armor, but I would argue that killing a s**t ton of world bosses, completing countless big meta events and throwing half a fortune at it shows at lest dedication.

@Seera.5916 said:So if they give open world it's own legendary armor, it should be like the same as ascended: no special effects or aura's. Plain Jane, you wouldn't know it was legendary just by looking at it unless you knew what the skin looked like.Besides the fact that this is a completely nonsensical thing to ask for given that even the ascended WvW set has its own special effects, OW PvM doesn't even have a general ascended armor set to base a legendary set off of.

Just remember that the WvW Ascended version you are talking about is not required to craft the Legendary version. They are purely cosmetic skins.

[Ohoni.6057]

@Seera.5916 said:Open world PvE as it stands right now is not set up to make legendary armor even possible to obtain. There's nothing about open world PvE that shows skill or dedication.

Who cares? I've been playing GW2 since launch, if that's not "dedication" then I don't know what is.

So if they give open world it's own legendary armor, it should be like the same as ascended: no special effects or aura's. Plain Jane, you wouldn't know it was legendary just by looking at it unless you knew what the skin looked like. IE: you get just the functionality of legendary armor.

Why? Why are people not allowed to have nice things unless they also enjoy raiding?

But each mode should have it's own unique skin and the WvW ones should be given their own skins and not just C&P from the ascended version.

What is the point of that? What if the mode you enjoy playing does not offer the skin that you think looks best, and what if the skin you like best doesn't come from a mode you want to play? That seems like a set-up for plenty of lose/lose propositions. What we want are win/win propositions, where you can always get the skin you want by playing in a mode you enjoy.

[Cerberus.4315]

@Seera.5916 said:Open world PvE as it stands right now is not set up to make legendary armor even possible to obtain. There's nothing about open world PvE that shows skill or dedication.

Which is currently what all legendary armor requires: a combination of skill and dedication, plus open world activities, because you have to have a bunch of mats that you either have to farm for or farm the gold to buy.

So if they give open world it's own legendary armor, it should be like the same as ascended: no special effects or aura's. Plain Jane, you wouldn't know it was legendary just by looking at it unless you knew what the skin looked like. IE: you get just the functionality of legendary armor.

But each mode should have it's own unique skin and the WvW ones should be given their own skins and not just C&P from the ascended version.

That's what I was thinking ) No need for a new skin or aura (THATS TO HARD FOR THEM TO DO) just the ability to change stats when out of combat, at the moment I carry 3 sets of armor, 3 sets of jewellery and weapons but forget about that my storage has more sets stored. From Anets perspective its in their favor that I'm using storage and bag slots to store armor, weapons and jewellery so I would buy more slots but there is a small problem I have bought my max in both areas.

[Fenom.9457]

Yes, PLEASE Legendary Armor gear AND skins ANYWHERE but raids. They can be the same skins or different, I don't care.

[Seera.5916]

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Seera.5916 said:Open world PvE as it stands right now is not set up to make legendary armor even possible to obtain. There's nothing about open world PvE that shows skill or dedication.

Who cares? I've been playing GW2 since launch, if that's not "dedication" then I don't know what is.

So if they give open world it's own legendary armor, it should be like the same as ascended: no special effects or aura's. Plain Jane, you wouldn't know it was legendary just by looking at it unless you knew what the skin looked like. IE: you get just the functionality of legendary armor.

Why? Why are people not allowed to have nice things unless they also enjoy raiding?

But each mode should have it's own unique skin and the WvW ones should be given their own skins and not just C&P from the ascended version.

What is the point of that? What if the mode you enjoy playing does not offer the skin that you think looks best, and what if the skin you like best doesn't come from a mode you want to play? That seems like a set-up for plenty of lose/lose propositions. What we want are win/win propositions, where you can always get the skin you want by playing in a mode you enjoy.

There should be rewards in games that showcase skill and dedication towards different aspects of the game. That are unique to that game mode. So that when you see them with it you know they are good at that game mode. Not have to ask them or wonder what part of the game they played to get that.

You can't give every skin and every reward out to every aspect in the game that people like to do. Otherwise, every drop will be so low in chances of dropping that they might as well have the current drop rate of precursors for the gen 1 legendaries. You can't have anything be map specific because someone may not like to play in that map. But if things aren't map specific then people will go to the easiest maps to do it in, which are the starter maps. Which means new players will find it even harder to get experience because the experienced players are all there trying to get the drop they want. Because people have to farm for hours and hours and hours and hours even on the starter maps to get the skin they want, they end up selling everything they don't want or get duplicates of, taking down the GW2 economy with it because supply skyrocketed but demand remained the same.

Because under your thought, where would it stop? Put it only on world bosses and people say "I don't like to do world bosses." So they put it in level 80 maps. People then say "I don't like to play those maps." So they put them in all maps on champions. Players go "I don't like fighting champions, it's either zerg fest and too easy or too hard because I can't solo and I'm never on when others are there."

If you read what I said, there's nothing that shows dedication or skill in open world PvE. You can't use account creation date, because players can take breaks. You can't use age of characters because people can stand around and chat in LA all day and from what I've read, we both think those players who just stand around in LA and chat all day should not get handed legendary weapons or armor.

Which is why any legendary set for open world PvE as it is today should be just the functionality and not the cool special skin. Legendary weapons do require you to venture out into the areas of the game that have measurable ways to show dedication and skill.

And I'm one of those who believes the generation 1 legendary weapons should not have been sellable on the TP. Precursors, yes. Legendary weapons, no.

[Seera.5916]

@Tails.9372 said:

@Seera.5916 said:There's nothing about open world PvE that shows skill or dedication.Going by that logic you could say the same about the WvW armor, but I would argue that killing a s**t ton of world bosses, completing countless big meta events and throwing half a fortune at it shows at lest dedication.

@Seera.5916 said:So if they give open world it's own legendary armor, it should be like the same as ascended: no special effects or aura's. Plain Jane, you wouldn't know it was legendary just by looking at it unless you knew what the skin looked like.Besides the fact that this is a completely nonsensical thing to ask for given that even the ascended WvW set has its own special effects, OW PvM doesn't even have a general ascended armor set to base a legendary set off of.

There's a reward track in WvW and the tickets that show that you are at least dedicated to playing WvW. Skill in WvW gets you what you want quicker. I'd say badges of honor here, but you can get them from AP chests.

There's nothing that counts the number of times you do Tequatl or Shatterer or Shadow Behemoth or any of the other bosses or other meta events. Short of AP, there's nothing that can really distinguish the player who stands around in LA and chats all day from the dedicated commander who organizes the map wide meta events on several maps. If ANet would put in something equivalent to PvP's and WvW's reward tracks then there would be something to show for giving open world PvE it's own legendary.

[Tails.9372]

@Seera.5916 said:If ANet would put in something equivalent to PvP's and WvW's reward tracks then there would be something to show for giving open world PvE it's own legendary.And that's exactly what I'd like to see.

[Ohoni.6057]

@Seera.5916 said:There should be rewards in games that showcase skill and dedication towards different aspects of the game.

Ok, but these shouldn't be skins, because players might want that skin without caring about the skill and dedication that this other player wants to show off.

You can't give every skin and every reward out to every aspect in the game that people like to do. Otherwise, every drop will be so low in chances of dropping that they might as well have the current drop rate of precursors for the gen 1 legendaries.

I certainly wouldn't make them RNG drops, I would make them quests, things you could work towards like the Legendary weapons.

You can't have anything be map specific because someone may not like to play in that map. But if things aren't map specific then people will go to the easiest maps to do it in, which are the starter maps.

Not necessarily. I prefer a scaled system, in which you make things "map specific," but you also make it so that you can earn towards them elsewhere, just in a much less efficient way. That way, if you only care about knocking the quest out as quickly and easily as possible, then you do it the "right" way, but if you really hate the right way and/or really love some other way, you can do that too, it'll just take a lot more time and effort. The idea here is NOT to balance the two options, "plan b" would definitely be balanced to be intentionally worse, but still within reason.

Because under your thought, where would it stop? Put it only on world bosses and people say "I don't like to do world bosses." So they put it in level 80 maps. People then say "I don't like to play those maps." So they put them in all maps on champions. Players go "I don't like fighting champions, it's either zerg fest and too easy or too hard because I can't solo and I'm never on when others are there."

It's almost like you're describing some sort of inclined surface, excessively lubricated, rather than just considering the problem as if it were being handled by rational people who would stop at rational limits.

If you read what I said, there's nothing that shows dedication or skill in open world PvE. You can't use account creation date, because players can take breaks. You can't use age of characters because people can stand around and chat in LA all day and from what I've read, we both think those players who just stand around in LA and chat all day should not get handed legendary weapons or armor.

Which is why any legendary set for open world PvE as it is today should be just the functionality and not the cool special skin. Legendary weapons do require you to venture out into the areas of the game that have measurable ways to show dedication and skill.

A doesn't follow from B. There is no reason why legendaries should be tied to "skill and dedication," other than that you prefer that they would. I say they should take some time and effort to achieve, but that skill doesn't need to factor into it at all, because skill isn't distributed to players evenly.

[Seera.5916]

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Seera.5916 said:There should be rewards in games that showcase skill and dedication towards different aspects of the game.

Ok, but these shouldn't be skins, because players might want that skin without caring about the skill and dedication that this other player wants to show off.

You can't give every skin and every reward out to every aspect in the game that people like to do. Otherwise, every drop will be so low in chances of dropping that they might as well have the current drop rate of precursors for the gen 1 legendaries.

I certainly wouldn't make them RNG drops, I would make them quests, things you could work towards like the Legendary weapons.

You can't have anything be map specific because someone may not like to play in that map. But if things aren't map specific then people will go to the easiest maps to do it in, which are the starter maps.

Not necessarily. I prefer a scaled system, in which you make things "map specific," but you also make it so that you can earn towards them elsewhere, just in a much less efficient way. That way, if you only care about knocking the quest out as quickly and easily as possible, then you do it the "right" way, but if you really hate the right way and/or really love some other way, you can do that too, it'll just take a lot more time and effort. The idea here is NOT to balance the two options, "plan b" would definitely be balanced to be intentionally worse, but still within reason.

Because under your thought, where would it stop? Put it only on world bosses and people say "I don't like to do world bosses." So they put it in level 80 maps. People then say "I don't like to play those maps." So they put them in all maps on champions. Players go "I don't like fighting champions, it's either zerg fest and too easy or too hard because I can't solo and I'm never on when others are there."

It's almost like you're describing some sort of inclined surface, excessively lubricated, rather than just considering the problem as if it were being handled by rational people who would stop at rational limits.

If you read what I said, there's nothing that shows dedication or skill in open world PvE. You can't use account creation date, because players can take breaks. You can't use age of characters because people can stand around and chat in LA all day and from what I've read, we both think those players who just stand around in LA and chat all day should not get handed legendary weapons or armor.

Which is why any legendary set for open world PvE as it is today should be just the functionality and not the cool special skin. Legendary weapons do require you to venture out into the areas of the game that have measurable ways to show dedication and skill.

A doesn't follow from B. There is no reason why legendaries

should

be tied to "skill and dedication," other than that you prefer that they would. I say they should take some time and effort to achieve, but that skill doesn't need to factor into it at all, because skill isn't distributed to players evenly.

Those rewards can indeed be skins. They're the only things that every player can easily see (minis are in a way skins). And yes, there should be a mixture of exclusive items: titles, jewelry, aura's, skins, ascended gear, legendary gear, etc.

You can't have it both ways, Ohoni. You can't claim that things can't be locked due to "I don't like X" and then go things can be locked to specific maps even if people don't like those maps. Your way IS a slippery slope. One that not many people argue for. So what's to stop ANet from catering to the "not many" people who argue for the next step down? To me the rational place to stop is right where they are at right now based on how each mode is set up. It's completely rational to lock skins behind certain modes.

When I say skill, I don't mean top 10% or even top 50%. And not even necessarily skill at playing the game itself. Skill could mean knowing their limitations and knowing when to get a party together in LFG or getting a few friends to help take down a harder champion in the open world.

Until they put in some way to measure skill and dedication (like a reward track, but not necessarily a reward track), then any legendary armor or weapon skin that is solely obtainable through open world PvE, should be functionality only - no special auras or effects.

[STIHL.2489]

@Ohoni.6057 said:There is no reason why legendaries should be tied to "skill and dedication," other than that you prefer that they would. I say they should take some time and effort to achieve, but that skill doesn't need to factor into it at all, because skill isn't distributed to players evenly.

This is a good point. Originally a Legendary Item was purely a matter of persistence not skill, and they really should have kept to that design manifesto.

[Lunarlife.5128]

Thought about it a bit more. Didn't we get an openworld legendary around 6 months ago? Called. Aurora?

[STIHL.2489]

@Lunarlife.5128 said:Thought about it a bit more. Didn't we get an openworld legendary around 6 months ago? Called. Aurora?

That was LW3, which is it's own thing.

[STIHL.2489]

I guess it's just me, but LW always came across as it's own thing, like PS, and what have you. LW being more solo Instance based content, where Open World was.. well.. Open World.

[zoomborg.9462]

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@zoomborg.9462 said:

@Ohoni.6057 said:

@Loosmaster.8263 said:

@Game of Bones.8975 said:No one has come up with a good reason why core PvE shouldn't have a new dedicated Legendary line.Not everyone has the expansions...should they be unable to craft their own Legendaries?Most everyone can defend the Raids, PvP, WvW, and Fractals having their own items and that's all good.

Raids are your PvE access. Core will open access to F2P? I think they should remain and tied to the expansions.

Just my 2 cents which is really worth alot...

Raids are not PvE.

PvE means Player vs Environment which makes raids by all accounts PvE.

PvP means player verses player, which makes WvW by all accounts PvP, and yet the game rather firmly differentiates between the two.

The simple and indisputable fact here is that the majority of the players in this game play the PvE open world content, but do NOT play raids, so trying to claim that raids should be considered a natural extension of other PvE in the game completely ignores how players actually engage with the content.

The simple and indisputable fact is that Raids are as much PvE as open world is or fractals or dungeons. Anything that pits u against AI enemies is by definition PvE. It doesn't matter how many people play each mode or how they engage it. It's all PvE with the only difference being the difficulty. I dont know how u come up with the crap you're writing, its kinda amusing.