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More “paths” to legendary gear...


Swagger.1459

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@Obtena.7952 said:

Lets get something clear, Anet needs to take care of their players, and provide them what they want, or they will lose them.

Yes, and you don't seem to get that. Anet taking care of players means considering a wide variety of things and making hard choices that have the most positive impact to the game. There is not resources to do EVERY thing that people want. Furthermore, you haven't accepted the idea that ... maybe this is opposite to what they want to do in the game. Will players leave? Sure, but players leave all the time and it makes no sense to offer EVERYTHING to them to make them stay.

By that logic.. they should have just let the people who wanted Raids leave. Someone is going to leave anyway, why not the minority.

Um, no ... by that logic, it tells you that Anet thinks introducing raids has a positive impact to the game ... and the fact they continue to add more all the time ... they are probably on to something. I know that burns you up because of 'original design intent' and 'exclusion' but maybe you just need to take a step back here and have a more critical look. Again, there quite a good factory of assumptions going on with you ... when the evidence of how this actually runs as a business is right in front of us. As I've already said, if more than the current paths to leg armor was some massively positive impact to the game, we would have it.

Clearly, it's no where near as important as

... a new expansion... another raid... another PVP season... another installment of LS... some new releases in GS... the crap stuck on the bottom of their shoes

... I'm going out on a limb here and say it's not NEARLY as important to the game as you seem to think it is. You're just giving it too much credit for the impact it would have to make it seem like you're on to something big that Anet is ignoring. I'm pretty sure that Anet knows what the uptake of Leg Armor actually is ... and if they wanted more people to have it, would do something about it. It must be hard to think you know better than Anet does about their game with all the access to the data they have and their track record to back that up.

Oh hey ... you can now add customizable Gathering tools to the list of things more important than more leg gear paths too. Funny you mention Anet heading to the unemployment line ... because I don't see more paths making money, but customizeable tools will. /shrug. I guess that's just more of you misunderstanding this is a business.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

Lets get something clear, Anet needs to take care of their players, and provide them what they want, or they will lose them.

Yes, and you don't seem to get that. Anet taking care of players means considering a wide variety of things and making hard choices that have the most positive impact to the game. There is not resources to do EVERY thing that people want. Furthermore, you haven't accepted the idea that ... maybe this is opposite to what they want to do in the game. Will players leave? Sure, but players leave all the time and it makes no sense to offer EVERYTHING to them to make them stay.

By that logic.. they should have just let the people who wanted Raids leave. Someone is going to leave anyway, why not the minority.

Um, no ... by that logic, it tells you that Anet thinks introducing raids has a positive impact to the game ... and the fact they continue to add more all the time ... they are probably on to something. I know that burns you up because of 'original design intent' and 'exclusion' but maybe you just need to take a step back here and have a more critical look. Again, there quite a good factory of assumptions going on with you ... when the evidence of how this actually runs as a business is right in front of us. As I've already said, if more than the current paths to leg armor was some massively positive impact to the game, we would have it.

Clearly, it's no where near as important as

... a new expansion... another raid... another PVP season... another installment of LS... some new releases in GS... the crap stuck on the bottom of their shoes

... I'm going out on a limb here and say it's not NEARLY as important to the game as you seem to think it is. You're just giving it too much credit for the impact it would have to make it seem like you're on to something big that Anet is ignoring. I'm pretty sure that Anet knows what the uptake of Leg Armor actually is ... and if they wanted more people to have it, would do something about it. It must be hard to think you know better than Anet does about their game with all the access to the data they have and their track record to back that up.

Oh hey ... you can now add customizable Gathering tools to the list of things more important than more leg gear paths too. Funny you mention Anet heading to the unemployment line ... because I don't see more paths making money, but customizeable tools will. /shrug. I guess that's just more of you misunderstanding this is a business.

We shall see.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:because I don't see more paths making money, but customizeable tools will.Shortterm, yes. Longterm, players that have quit the game won't buy the infinite tools. Or won't buy gems and exchange them to gold so hardcores could buy the tools for gold-bought gems.

OK, that's the business model though, you say it like it's some exceptional scenario ... players that already left for WHATEVER reason aren't buying things. What I do know is that players that still play are the ones buying them ... but they aren't 'buying' more paths. Business ... such a foreign concept for some.

@STIHL.2489 said:

Lets get something clear, Anet needs to take care of their players, and provide them what they want, or they will lose them.

Yes, and you don't seem to get that. Anet taking care of players means considering a wide variety of things and making hard choices that have the most positive impact to the game. There is not resources to do EVERY thing that people want. Furthermore, you haven't accepted the idea that ... maybe this is opposite to what they want to do in the game. Will players leave? Sure, but players leave all the time and it makes no sense to offer EVERYTHING to them to make them stay.

By that logic.. they should have just let the people who wanted Raids leave. Someone is going to leave anyway, why not the minority.

Um, no ... by that logic, it tells you that Anet thinks introducing raids has a positive impact to the game ... and the fact they continue to add more all the time ... they are probably on to something. I know that burns you up because of 'original design intent' and 'exclusion' but maybe you just need to take a step back here and have a more critical look. Again, there quite a good factory of assumptions going on with you ... when the evidence of how this actually runs as a business is right in front of us. As I've already said, if more than the current paths to leg armor was some massively positive impact to the game, we would have it.

Clearly, it's no where near as important as

... a new expansion... another raid... another PVP season... another installment of LS... some new releases in GS... the crap stuck on the bottom of their shoes

... I'm going out on a limb here and say it's not NEARLY as important to the game as you seem to think it is. You're just giving it too much credit for the impact it would have to make it seem like you're on to something big that Anet is ignoring. I'm pretty sure that Anet knows what the uptake of Leg Armor actually is ... and if they wanted more people to have it, would do something about it. It must be hard to think you know better than Anet does about their game with all the access to the data they have and their track record to back that up.

Oh hey ... you can now add customizable Gathering tools to the list of things more important than more leg gear paths too. Funny you mention Anet heading to the unemployment line ... because I don't see more paths making money, but customizeable tools will. /shrug. I guess that's just more of you misunderstanding this is a business.

We shall see.

What is there to see? I can see glyphs and gathering tools in the GS ... I didn't find the extra legendary gear paths though ...

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@Obtena.7952 said:

Lets get something clear, Anet needs to take care of their players, and provide them what they want, or they will lose them.

Yes, and you don't seem to get that. Anet taking care of players means considering a wide variety of things and making hard choices that have the most positive impact to the game. There is not resources to do EVERY thing that people want. Furthermore, you haven't accepted the idea that ... maybe this is opposite to what they want to do in the game. Will players leave? Sure, but players leave all the time and it makes no sense to offer EVERYTHING to them to make them stay.

By that logic.. they should have just let the people who wanted Raids leave. Someone is going to leave anyway, why not the minority.

Um, no ... by that logic, it tells you that Anet thinks introducing raids has a positive impact to the game ... and the fact they continue to add more all the time ... they are probably on to something. I know that burns you up because of 'original design intent' and 'exclusion' but maybe you just need to take a step back here and have a more critical look. Again, there quite a good factory of assumptions going on with you ... when the evidence of how this actually runs as a business is right in front of us. As I've already said, if more than the current paths to leg armor was some massively positive impact to the game, we would have it.

Clearly, it's no where near as important as

... a new expansion... another raid... another PVP season... another installment of LS... some new releases in GS... the crap stuck on the bottom of their shoes

... I'm going out on a limb here and say it's not NEARLY as important to the game as you seem to think it is. You're just giving it too much credit for the impact it would have to make it seem like you're on to something big that Anet is ignoring. I'm pretty sure that Anet knows what the uptake of Leg Armor actually is ... and if they wanted more people to have it, would do something about it. It must be hard to think you know better than Anet does about their game with all the access to the data they have and their track record to back that up.

Oh hey ... you can now add customizable Gathering tools to the list of things more important than more leg gear paths too. Funny you mention Anet heading to the unemployment line ... because I don't see more paths making money, but customizeable tools will. /shrug. I guess that's just more of you misunderstanding this is a business.

We shall see.

What is there to see? I can see glyphs and gathering tools in the GS ... I didn't find the extra legendary gear paths though ...

.. and that shows how little you know about the business.. or ahem.. as you said just more of your misunderstanding.

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Does it? So I can't buy these things in the GS .. .and I can purchase paths? Interesting.

No, please explain to us again about how the demise of the game is due to the lack of more paths for legendary gear ... and has nothing to do with what people are buying on the GS. I'm sure this will be SO full of insightful business knowledge.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:because I don't see more paths making money, but customizeable tools will.Shortterm, yes. Longterm, players that have quit the game won't buy the infinite tools. Or won't buy gems and exchange them to gold so hardcores could buy the tools for gold-bought gems.

OK, that's the business model though, you say it like it's some exceptional scenario ... players that already left for WHATEVER reason aren't buying things. What I do know is that players that still play are the ones buying them ... but they aren't 'buying' more paths. Business ... such a foreign concept for some.Indeed, such a foreign concept.

Since you seem to have trouble with it, let me explain in more detail:

Just concentrating on things like infinite tools is a shortterm business. You sell stuff today, you get money today. But if you won't make sure your clients will continue buying, you may end up with getting no money tomorrow.

Designing the game to be more appealing to the players in the long run (so the players - especially those that tend to buy stuff for real money instead of gold - won't easily leave) is a longterm business strategy. You do things today so tomorrow you will have clients you can sell stuff to.

Now, what you concentrate more on depends on how long you want to stay in the business. You can concentrate on the shortterm stuff, ignoring longterm one, to make a big cash grab (and then get out of dodge before things turn nasty). Or you can concentrate on longterm stuff more, so you have less immediate gains, but more future prospects.

Yes, long-term planning is a hard concept. I don't blame you for not understanding it - not everyone does.

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That's interesting. Unfortunately, the flaw is that you assumed more paths is what the game needs to make it more appealing to a significant number of players, which I've explained seems pretty unlikely somewhere in this thread already. Seems to me Anet has other ideas about what's appealing to more people than leg gear paths, AND what makes them real money. I'm going to remind you that you have ZERO data on what appeals to most players in this game or what it would cost to develop any idea that does appeal, which would be part of the decision on what to work on and offer. All that hardcore business understanding at work I guess.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:because I don't see more paths making money, but customizeable tools will.Shortterm, yes. Longterm, players that have quit the game won't buy the infinite tools. Or won't buy gems and exchange them to gold so hardcores could buy the tools for gold-bought gems.

OK, that's the business model though, you say it like it's some exceptional scenario ... players that already left for WHATEVER reason aren't buying things. What I do know is that players that still play are the ones buying them ... but they aren't 'buying' more paths. Business ... such a foreign concept for some.Indeed, such a foreign concept.

Since you seem to have trouble with it, let me explain in more detail:

Just concentrating on things like infinite tools is a shortterm business. You sell stuff today, you get money today. But if you won't make sure your clients will continue buying, you may end up with getting
no
money tomorrow.

Designing the game to be more appealing to the players in the long run (so the players - especially those that tend to buy stuff for real money instead of gold - won't easily leave) is a longterm business strategy. You do things today so tomorrow you will have clients you can sell stuff to.

Now, what you concentrate more on depends on how long you want to stay in the business. You can concentrate on the shortterm stuff, ignoring longterm one, to make a big cash grab (and then get out of dodge before things turn nasty). Or you can concentrate on longterm stuff more, so you have less immediate gains, but more future prospects.

Yes, long-term planning is a hard concept. I don't blame you for not understanding it - not everyone does.

The fact they mentioned buying legendary paths really brought home their lack of understanding of,.. well.. everything in this discussion.

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@Obtena.7952 said:That's interesting. Unfortunately, the flaw is that you assumed more paths is what the game needs to make it more appealing to a significant number of players, which I've explained seems pretty unlikely somewhere in this thread already. Seems to me Anet has other ideas about what's appealing to more people than leg gear paths, AND what makes them real money. I'm going to remind you that you have ZERO data on what appeals to most players in this game or what it would cost to develop any idea that does appeal, which would be part of the decision on what to work on and offer. All that hardcore business understanding at work I guess.

Well thank you for this informative post that shows you do not know the difference between making money and retaining clients. Must be that amazing.. umm what did you call it hardcore business understanding ?

But hey.. You know what. In the end, you're wrong, but you being wrong or right is not an issue, and has zero impact on the game. The thing is, Anet needs to work on retaining and lifting the spirits of it's player base. Which, if you looked at WvW, they are not all that great at. But they really need to work on it.

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Still waiting for you to tell me how you know what the impact of more paths for legendary gear is on GW2 revenue OR player retention other than 'it will'. You're telling me I don't know? OK .. that must mean you do ... so let me know when you figure it out.

Anet does work on player retention and does need further work on it as well, but trying to paint more paths for Leg gear as THE way to do that is just nonsense. I've given you handfuls of examples of various level of complexity that Anet care about way more than more paths ... how do I know? Because they DID those things. They didn't do more paths. You neither have any idea what the cost is to implement more paths is or any estimate on how it would affect player retention or revenues. It's all rather hand wavy and frankly, completely laughable, especially as you sit there and present yourself with some sense of why it's good for Anet to do it ... and ignore why it's not.

I know you're just going to tell me 'Forum noise' is your best guess for that stuff again. That's not sound foundation for justifying anything and you should really stop trying to give the illusion you have any better sense than Anet does of what the game should have and why. You got nothing except 'forum noise'.

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Equating selling an item in the store as saying it was more important then building longer term goals for the players is as foolish as saying that a outfit in the store means they won't make new armor skins. They were putting out new outfits as they were working on the Evony Armor Skins, so equating what gets sold in the store to game development, is tacky at best.

Making Additional Long Term Goals for Each Expansion, like Legendary Sets (Armor/Weapons/Back) is a cornerstone to retaining players, it gives them something to work towards when the other content dries up.

But why burden yourself with these kinds of things, I am sure you believe you know everything there is know about this.

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I think it is worth pointing out that raids appeal to a very slim minority of players. When you lock something like legendary armor behind raids, you exclude the vast majority of your players from ever attaining it, especially since WvW is also not a particularly popular game mode either so the one alternate path you did include is also relatively exclusive.

When you create exclusionary content, customer satisfaction dips.

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