How is this fair?

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

Linkety for you to clickety

Combine this with Signet of The Hunt (unblockable), Sic Em at 2000 range (anti stealth), Access to quickness and other buffs...How, other can Deadeye players / only blockable classes counter this garbage?

you cant walk or dodge enough of the high damaging attacks because of the channeling multiple projectiles at a higher velocity so you cant side step like you could with normal autoattacks.
you cant block it if the enemy were to take Signet of The Hunt
Most of the time they WILL out range you so good luck on deadeye, even with a NON spammable retreat button with a high initiative cost and you cant reach them to really BLIND them

i suppose the only thing you CAN do, god forbid you dont carry it in wvw, is reflect or convert / DESTROY the projectiles instead of blocking them like with Corrosive Cloud / Sublime Conversion....i dont know 😕

constructive posts please - if im completely wrong on my understanding of this as a thief main, SHOW me, dont put me down over it...ive been pmed enough in game with harrassment...im just about done.

[Cernoch.8524]

Cant really see anything bad in the video, if you know the difference between rifle shots and longbow arrows, but from the wiki: 

The projectile flies in a small arc and can actually hit targets outside of the maximum range.

It also means you can shoot over the objects, tiny bit but you can. 

Thats why you have reflection, not you as a thief ofc but at the same time, ranger is the only class that can do that to a thief right?? While I understand you want your main class to be perfect, there has to be some anti thief class as well. Also if you are at maximum range as you showed in the video maybe just dodge back and get out of the maximum range? Its not like they kill you in two shots anyway. It is annoying for sure, I get it but we have been annoyed with theives and their perma stealth for 10 years. And later with their 1500 range rifle + stealth.

 

Edit: Not sure why is this topic in bug section either.

Edited September 25 by Cernoch.8524

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

Sic em sniper has always been good VS deadeye. Some specs just have natural counters and you need to get over this fact. That being said, there are things you can do on Deadeye to mitigate the match-up. Most soulbeasts don't take signets, meaning you can block it with smoke wall. Longbow soulbeast burst is on a timer, meaning you can kite it out and then engage(deadeye dmg has no timer). Rangers  don't have vertical mobility, minus untamed and porting via smoke assault, so kite upwards or down. 

Some things to think about vs soulbeast. 

 - triple stunbreak, including SHADOW PORTAL. This utility makes avoiding sic em much easier and increases your ability to out rotate rangers. 

- dagger storm is your go to get out of jail free card vs One Wolf Pack. 

- map selection. Sic em soulbeast(longbow) excels on Capricorn and Colliseum to a lesser extent. Perhaps don't play deadeye on these maps vs longbow soulbeast.

- as stated before, Signet of the Hunt is seldom taken on Sic em longbow builds, so you need quick reactions to drop your smoke wall.

- kneeling burst. I'd highly recommend to use kneeling 3 round burst vs unsuspecting rangers as it's way more condensed dmg compared to standing 2 spam, especially with quickness. 

- Thieves Guild. Strong cheese ability to kill your target. Underrated skill and extremely lethal. 

- stealth/map awareness. You have way more stealth than ranger, so use it to get the alpha strike on unsuspecting rangers. Try engaging them when they already have a target. You must be aware of rangers location on the map. 

 

[Doggie.3184]

This is why them attempting to nerf our range was such an insane tragedy that we had to prevent. It's also the reason we need "Ricochet" trait back or bullets that explode like all other gun users. 🙂

Bullets go in a straight line with seemingly less physics and vanish once they reach their max range. Arrows get 'bullet drop' for quite some time past their max range instead of vanishing till they hit the ground, which makes them go further. Ranger arrows also travel faster which makes them less buggy for hit tracking.

So it's also why pierce is terrible on guns, the bullet goes in a straight line and over thing's heads, often missing everything behind your target~ where it works more reliably on bows cuz of the arch. If we're to match longbow they'd have to add the same mechanics to gun bullets or increase the distance~ neither of which will ever happen. Or just make them explode to increase distance/hitbox like Engi has. You should also already know how much I hate Thief Rifle's design. XD

Ranger is a god-sniper able to 100 to 0 a player instantly, even through their mount's HP bar, and been like that for a long time. They have no laser-beam or wind-up sound effect telegraphs either like Deadeye.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

Soulbeast is one of the reasons i think power deadeye is best played with S/D on the off set to rifle, you can then use terrain and LoS to force the ranger to swap to their melee set and being hit with sic em isn't totally debilitating like it is for D/P.  You want to force them into using bow when you are on sword and greatsword when you are on rifle, so you control the spacing of the fight. I usually run blinding powder, shadowstep and infiltrator signet on most builds so i can use signet and sword 2 to close the gap immediately, most soulbeast players panic if you can get in their face and start cc'ing them with sword sneak attacks, and if they go for the sic'em one wolf pack nonsense you can port back out of range of the bow with sword 2 return and shadowstep. If they're good and you don't react/they hit you from narnia when you're fighting something else then you're dead tho, it's just one of those matchups.

[Chips.7968]

1 hour ago, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

Soulbeast is one of the reasons i think power deadeye is best played with S/D on the off set to rifle, you can then use terrain and LoS to force the ranger to swap to their melee set and being hit with sic em isn't totally debilitating like it is for D/P.  

The amount of salty players who whisper to whinge about "LoS abuse"... which basically means "you should stand in the open so I can use all my advantages to prove i'm amazing" would indicate that's not an option for OP - given their tiredness of being pm'd. 🙂

As for discrepancy in distances travelled, someone says its intentional "arc of arrow". Sure, just like standing below and taking out upper tier SM cannons using a 900 range short bow on thief when the range is well over 1200 - and you're firing vertical upwards; that maximum arc advantage 🙂

The game has some oddities. Given during unrelated updates they've managed to knacker auto attack on Guardians using axe, and more recently fusing quartz crystals, the fact the explanation is "oh, flight arc..." to mean a max range doesn't mean max range (especially since the excuse for flight arc is reversed when you were in elevated position, the range should be less) is probably better than trying to address it. Who knows what'd come out of it 🙂

It is what it is. 

 

Edited September 28 by Chips.7968

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

8 hours ago, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

Soulbeast is one of the reasons i think power deadeye is best played with S/D on the off set to rifle, you can then use terrain and LoS to force the ranger to swap to their melee set and being hit with sic em isn't totally debilitating like it is for D/P.  You want to force them into using bow when you are on sword and greatsword when you are on rifle, so you control the spacing of the fight. I usually run blinding powder, shadowstep and infiltrator signet on most builds so i can use signet and sword 2 to close the gap immediately, most soulbeast players panic if you can get in their face and start cc'ing them with sword sneak attacks, and if they go for the sic'em one wolf pack nonsense you can port back out of range of the bow with sword 2 return and shadowstep. If they're good and you don't react/they hit you from narnia when you're fighting something else then you're dead tho, it's just one of those matchups.

sometimes i wonder if im getting old and forgetting old tricks and tips i used to dish out many years ago on thief training. i appreciate you Juggle, always a welcome sight to see you post on behalf of EcK xD. I swear im getting Alzheimers at 31 xD - I salute you dude, thanks for this old but gold tip 

[DeceiverX.8361]

9 hours ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

sometimes i wonder if im getting old and forgetting old tricks and tips i used to dish out many years ago on thief training. i appreciate you Juggle, always a welcome sight to see you post on behalf of EcK xD. I swear im getting Alzheimers at 31 xD - I salute you dude, thanks for this old but gold tip 

Goes back to what I said a long time ago in your past thread about the SMeld changes.  The matchup is unfair but winnable and has almost nothing to do with Thief/Deadeye than it does Soulbeast.

This is just the very basics for all ranged-disadvantage matchups on thief though.  Power D/D has needed to do this for over ten years into tough ranged matchups because it lacks the answers D/P and other prominent kits have when engaged upon from range.

By extension, any kit with a dodge can use their weapon skill evade (like FS without a target) and just animation-cancel aftercast frames with a normal dodge roll, and chain this into subsequent casts in order to negate most if not all of the RF combo depending on the evade skill.  You can also animation-cancel most of the IStrike cast on MH Sword via dodge rolls and have the teleport carry through while dodging.

Most soulbeasts will also get channel-broken if you IStrike-dodge into a Shadowstep or similar teleport behind them during the RF.  RF will self-cancel if you're behind them while they have it firing/have you targeted, and it lets you open on them and then disengage if they swap GS and are actually good in melee.

The bigger issue is OWP doing so much damage on regular weapon attacks it makes any real melee punish difficult if the player on soulbeast is actually competent.  But as mentioned, that's a soulbeast problem and not a thief one, because more or less every class is putting up with the same stupidity.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

14 hours ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

sometimes i wonder if im getting old and forgetting old tricks and tips i used to dish out many years ago on thief training. i appreciate you Juggle, always a welcome sight to see you post on behalf of EcK xD. I swear im getting Alzheimers at 31 xD - I salute you dude, thanks for this old but gold tip 

Just glad my waffling helps someone haha xD

It's really easy to forget basic tactics when a cheese strat gives easy wins, when deadeye was OP you could cheese just about anything and I think that is what drove a lot of the "deadeye dead spec" comments when things got changed. Better to think of deadeye as more of a skirmisher than an assassin or sniper IMO, the value is in how hard it is to nail down while it wears you down, not in the single big hits, so S/D offhand compliments that style very nicely.

If you want more of an assassin feel in WvW you can try running one of my fav deadeye builds, power P/D with rifle, binding shadow, shadowstep and infiltrator's signet, using the kneel rifle 4 stealth combo to maintain stealth and mobility while you wait for an opening to burst. Something like this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PayAQpjlNwgYbsMmJW2OuvLA-DWRYihfOqnTJTFVrChaFB9KRF5ZhAEwfLVpsBA-w

It's double projectile so some classes like ele will shut you down if you don't play carefully, but forcing cooldowns with kneel 2 and death's judgement before timing the knockdown of binding shadow with a dagger 5>signet port followed by shadow strike and repeater spam hits like an absolute truck if it's not countered, and will build malice ready to weapon swap & shadowstep mid dodge to reposition and stealth ready for a max malice death's judgement (or just to quickly shadowstep to the enemy and stealth stomp if the repeater spam got them). If you pay attention to what skills the opponent uses you can pretty much delete someone, it's very all or nothing tho so you have to be careful haha. 

Older clip (old SA so I used the stealth on mark to engage) but this gives you the general idea of how the build works. First fight is power, second fight is my old cele deadeye, was trying to explain the difference in build to a friend at the time. 

Edited September 29 by Jugglemonkey.8741