Remove Weaponmaster Training

[Suyheuti.1732]

For God’s sake, please Anet remove the Weaponmaster Training from the game permanently. This is getting worse in every patch. 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Suyheuti.1732

[Serephen.3420]

Honestly it was fun for a bit, but if they're going to keep messing up specs with patches like this, because weapons they never had before are too strong and used instead of anything else.  Yet now the weapons for those specs end up performing even worse because they nerf the specs themselves...now people end up having no choice but to keep using the combos that lead to the nerf which will as you can guess, lead to it being nerfed again because they are unable to address the actual core issues and just do wackamole in the most haphazard way possible. 

[Sweetbread.3678]

Yup, it was always a pretty dumb feature to implement. The only way it was ever going to be remotely balanced was to heavily nerf the e-spec weapons and then tie a compensatory buff to their respective e-spec traitlines to balance it out. Naturally, we're getting global class nerfs instead, which, while needed from a general power creep standpoint, do absolutely nothing to address the weaponmaster design issues. Now specs are pigeonholed into using the overperforming weapon even further, because everything else has been neutered around it. Ironically we've ended up with less weapon choice than before.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

As a Warrior who didn't even get new toys to play with. I would not mind it being removed. 😗

[Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267]

16 minutes ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

Yup, it was always a pretty dumb feature to implement. The only way it was ever going to be remotely balanced was to heavily nerf the e-spec weapons and then tie a compensatory buff to their respective e-spec traitlines to balance it out. Naturally, we're getting global class nerfs instead, which, while needed from a general power creep standpoint, do absolutely nothing to address the weaponmaster design issues. Now specs are pigeonholed into using the overperforming weapon even further, because everything else has been neutered around it. Ironically we've ended up with less weapon choice than before.

Really make it sound like the homogenization is coming together in the worst way possible, doesn't it?

[Angesombre.4630]

It's the update, the nerf patch before the update before the introduction of new weapons that won't be available for at least 5 months.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Angesombre.4630

[Cuks.8241]

While I was excited for weapon mastery for specific weapons (rev shortbow, guardian off hand sword for example) I changed my mind. It was not thought through and they are tackling the aftermath completely wrong.

The only solution I see is to make these weapons inherently better on corresponding elite specs with base trait and keep them on other specs as flavour options but actualy sub par by design (can be equal but they will never manage that). 

What we got now is homogenisation across the board, huge power creep and balance nightmare we wont see ending in a long time. Few interesting new specs that surfaced do not outweigh all the bad.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

27 minutes ago, Angesombre.4630 said:

It's the update, the nerf center for introducing new weapons that won't be available for at least 5 months.

Oh yeah, we know ANet is doing stuff preemptively now in terms of balancing ever since the balance patch shortly before SOTO release, and yet those preemptive changes still didn't anticipate or lessen how overbearing condi has become in all modes, among overtuning survability on some classes as well.

Balance updates need to be a reaction to what players do with them, unfortunately, you can not always anticipate how players will interact with new things being added and clearly ANet doesn't have a broad enough spanning awareness of how classes interact with or their synergy with their own skills and traits and many other things across the game such as food or other buffs.

Did you know that you can permanently upkeep 15% damage reduction on Revenant from Unyielding Devotion in Salvation? Just need to run health regen food. I do mean permanent, too. So long as that food buff is active Unyielding Devotion is active. Pair that with Heralds Hardening Persistence, plus any Protection they may trigger from traits or skills (another 33% damage reduction) or with the Urn of Saint Viktor. All while they still pump out damage.

[Angesombre.4630]

14 minutes ago, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

Saviez-vous que vous pouvez maintenir en permanence une réduction des dégâts de 15 % sur Revenant grâce à Unyielding Devotion in Salvation ? Il suffit de faire fonctionner la nourriture régénératrice de santé. Je veux dire permanent aussi. Tant que ce buff de nourriture est actif, Dévotion inflexible est active. Associez cela à la persistance durcie des hérauts, ainsi qu'à toute protection qu'ils peuvent déclencher à partir de traits ou de compétences (encore 33 % de réduction des dégâts) ou avec l'urne de Saint Viktor. Tout cela alors qu’ils continuent à infliger des dégâts.

Personally I didn't know and I think like a lot of people

What annoys me the most is nerfing, but still no bug resolution for 2 years or more.

[SamuelW.2685]

Typically you should always find a way to fix a feature in a game rather then removing it outright, as removing it is a dev team saying "this is terrible and we don't know what to do, so we're just removing it" , tantamount to the devs saying they F'd up.

But how on earth do you even fix  Weaponmaster Training training???????????? Look at what it did pre patch, we had classes doing close to 50k when most bosses in this game don't even need 40k. How much is Weaponmaster Training gonna cause nrfs to the whole class, rather then a spec or two? And we all know it's gonna be a massive headache for Anet to properly balance with how many more weapons can be used on new E Specs. 

Yeah, might be a good idea to just get rid of it, I'm willing to hear reasons as to why it might stay but I can't think of any decent ones beyond it's cool, and yeah it's cool to have more weapons, having your whole class be shafted because of one spec overperforming using another specs weapons isn't cool.

Edited September 27, 2023 by SamuelW.2685
attempt to fix the blacked out text on mobile

[itspomf.9523]

I don't even have the new expansion, so thus no weapon master training, and thus things are just worse everywhere for me.

Really fun, that.  By which I mean it sucks to watch everything get slowly ground down because "oops, all DPS!"

[SeTect.5918]

Why is was hyped for weaponmaster training: yey i can use mace on holo!

What i got: mace nerfed to the ground and unusable as both power and condi now.

Why i was hyped for weaponmaster training: yey i can use hammer on weaver!

What i got: weaver nerfed for the sake of warhorn. 

Why i was hyped for soto: yey they put all the 6th rune bonuses in relics for more diversity!

What i got: only like 3-5% of rune bonuses are avaible as relics. 

Why i was hyped for wea...ah forget it. You get what i want to say.

 

Edit:

Hell, i came back like 1 month ago because i was so excited. And now i am so disappointed once again. 

You are nerfing down tons of stuff because 1 Single thing was overperforming and you dont buff them back. A good example is mace on engi. It was a good weapon, but 1 Single build was overperforming with confusion so you nerfed whole confusion and now mace is trash. Every class has useless weapons and you never Touch them, why? You just buff and nerf the same ones since years. Its frustrating. 

PvE:

Hammer is trash on revenant. Hammer/maces are trash on warrior. Hammer is trash on guardian. Mace is trash on engi. Shortbow is trash on ranger. Sword is trash on thief. Staff/dagger is trash on necro. Staff/scepter is trash on ele. Scepter is trash on mesmer.

Yea i know there are some more but i wanted to say only at least 1 per class.

Well i guess they will stay bad until the start of the next century.

Edited September 26, 2023 by SeTect.5918

[Angesombre.4630]

I'm talking mainly about the revenant, with devs saying that weapons are too playful with other specializations rather than the basic one, so we're going to make sure they come back as they were before SotO. Here's what I'm hearing, the GS vindi, the renegade bow and the shield, so here you go, deal with it, no, we'll never fix the hammer. I still don't see how these weapons are too strong for specialization - we're not at 45k damage.

Knowing, for example, that the bow is a little less good on the herald than on the renegat because it doesn't have access to the bow's trait.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Angesombre.4630

[Angesombre.4630]

I'm still looking for the guard in the patch (irony).

[Matoro.9708]

3 hours ago, Sweetbread.3678 said:

Yup, it was always a pretty dumb feature to implement. The only way it was ever going to be remotely balanced was to heavily nerf the e-spec weapons and then tie a compensatory buff to their respective e-spec traitlines to balance it out. Naturally, we're getting global class nerfs instead, which, while needed from a general power creep standpoint, do absolutely nothing to address the weaponmaster design issues. Now specs are pigeonholed into using the overperforming weapon even further, because everything else has been neutered around it. Ironically we've ended up with less weapon choice than before.

It's not all bad, if they keep it up eventually turrets will have some competition!

[Alcatraznc.3869]

12 hours ago, SeTect.5918 said:

1 Single build was overperforming with confusion so you nerfed whole confusion and now mace is trash

 

Actually if I remember correctly it's even worse than that.

 

1 build was performing really well against few bosses that attack fast so they nerfed confusion because of that niche use. God forbid against those select few boss that attack fast we dare use confusion to exploit the effectiveness of the condition to the maximum.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Alcatraznc.3869

[eXistence.3876]

Lol coming here and reading the negativity is really hilarious. Weaponmaster is amazing. Pls anet don't listen to anything in this thread

[Hotride.2187]

When you delete a code line and call it a major expansion feature.

[Suyheuti.1732]

2 hours ago, eXistence.3876 said:

Lol coming here and reading the negativity is really hilarious. Weaponmaster is amazing. Pls anet don't listen to anything in this thread

Which is amazing part?

I explain you with 2 most played classes by me.

1 - Elementalist;

Tempest = weapons werent changed. D/Wh

Weaver = (Before soto) Sc/Focus condi, Sw/D power. (After soto) Sc/Wh condi, Sw/Wh Power. Time to time staff was usable.

Catalyst = (Before soto) Hammer, (After soto) Sw/Wh. Hammer is meme weapon in catalyst now. 
In conclusion, I was able to use, mh/oh dagger, scepter, focus, sword, staff, hammer before soto. Now, all specs have to use warhorn. Staff, focus and hammer has been retired. 
2- Mesmer;

Chronomancer = (before soto) Sw/sw-gs, (after soto) d/sw-gs 

Mirage = weapons werent changed. They didnt even bother to fix its bugs. (Here is the irony, there was a bug after some patch, it was adventage for mirage players and anet fixed it in 2 days. But these bugs ara existed very long time and they are bad for players, anet doesnt care) And mirage is the least played spec in raids, strikes and fractals in all 3 instanced content at the moment.

Virtuoso = weapons d/s-gs power, d/s-d/f condi.

In conclucion, you have to use dagger mh and sword oh. Sword mh retired. Shield was killed at 27th june patch, and there is a weapon, scepter, it was dead for a long time anyway.

Tell me what I gained with weaponmastery here? I had more alternatives before it.

[LolzImSquishy.4978]

Please don't remove it ANET PLEASE. Jesus all this new expac has gotten has been negativity left and right. Sheesh. 

[Gaiawolf.8261]

54 minutes ago, Suyheuti.1732 said:

Which is amazing part?

Well, I can only speak from my own experience, but here are the biggest benefits I've found for it:

1. I can finally play my FB in roaming WVW with the extra mobility from OH sword. Awesome! It isn't out of balance either, because neither FB nor OH sword were great before. Now it's just viable and good QoL. Also LB is a nice QoL benefit to add a second ranged option for ppl who don't like using the axe. Shame the FB can only go short-mid range max and not fully use the LB's range, but it adds some kiting options between tome skills.
2. Conversely, axe on a willbender is a good second weapon to keep up sustained condition damage without adding noticeable burst problems. So mostly a QoL increase with some efficiency benefits, but not out of whack.
3. Shortbow on my vindicator adds a nice option to go ranged instead of trying to scramble with a staff for when things get hairy. Adding greatsword to the herald was fun too! Yes, it was overtuned, but now that GS is nerfed and vindicator is buffed, I'll have to test to see if both still work out okay.
4. I tested a dagger on my celestial mirage, and it works pretty well! Not as good as the staff for a ranged option, but now ranged bursts are an option (don't need an axe anymore). Very fun. Especially dagger/torch for ambushes out of stealth from afar.
5. A mace/shield combo is much more in theme for my scrapper's character concept. I don't have to carry around that damned tool kit every time I want to whack someone with a wrench! (There's a wrench skin for maces.) Yay! Finally.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

1 hour ago, Suyheuti.1732 said:

I had more alternatives before it.

You objectively have more alternatives, then you did before soto, and that is a straight up fact...the purpose of what weapon mastery even is and is supposed to do. It is BASIC kindergarten level math to understand that.

So if you think this, I mean your opinion should just immediately be discounted because it's non-factual and most certainly biased...it indicates that you have some very narrow definition for how to play the game, and/or didn't explore your options.

Are weapons or relics perfect? No not yet...weapons were designed since the beginning to be very generic, and only a 1/4th of the relic effects are interesting. Those stem from a deeper issue with just the games design...but it's always had those issues...it didn't just "all of a sudden" happen with SOTO.

Edited September 27, 2023 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Gaiawolf.8261]

12 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

You objectively have more alternatives, then you did before patch, and that is a straight up fact...the purpose of what weapon mastery even is. It is BASIC kindergarten level math to understand that.

LOL. I don't think they meant this literally. Sometimes you gotta read between the lines. 😉  (Although sometimes you never know, maybe it was literal? Nah, I really don't think so in this case. Judging on the language higher up in the post, the poster was likely comparing optimized sets and found fewer options that fit the goal, since an outlier was overperforming. It's a pretty common vernacular, and a pretty common goal to boot.)

Edit: Also a pretty common complaint with the game balance during certain patches, because of some broad balance decisions Anet makes. Hey! that's a trifecta for norms!

Edited September 27, 2023 by Gaiawolf.8261

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

3 minutes ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

LOL. I don't think they meant this literally. Sometimes you gotta read between the lines. 😉  (Although sometimes you never know, maybe it was literal? Nah, I really don't think so in this case

You'd be surprised.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

2 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

You'd be surprised.

I know. 😅 I just didn't get that vibe from this particular post. I may be wrong, but I may be right... (Or maybe I'm just looking for a lunatic.)