Sword buff

[Mhina.1827]

Just wondering if anyone has heard anything about a potential buff to sword damage. It's probably "okay" in PvP/WvW; I haven't checked it out lately. But in PvE it seems totally lackluster. I use it anyway depending on what I'm doing, but it is a clearly inferior choice. But as someone that doesn't really enjoy staff and only marginally enjoys rifle, I hope it is examined!

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

We have heard nothing. 

[Stx.4857]

About a year or so back they buffed the coefficients of most weapons trying to make them more viable…. But for some reason sword barely got any buffs even then so it’s clear they don’t want it to be good in PvE.  It’s a shame, I started this game at launch playing sword thief and made Bolt back in season 1 too.  But yeah it’s really bad now, especially since staff can be used by all specs.  

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

It's passable in WvW, not played it in PvP in forever tho. The bigger issue is that most sword builds are disproportionately affected by the relationship between acro and daredevil: when acro is good, sword is good, and acro hasn't been good for literal years now because the original Devs designed daredevil badly with mechanics acro already had to start with, then nerfed acro to the floor to avoid letting us make dodge monsters. Then they introduced mirage and vindicator, seemingly not learning the lesson. Then add to that the fact that boon rip has largely become irrelevant because of the sheer amount of BOONS being output and S/D has lost one of its main niches too. 

I've been playing core sword dagger with dagger pistol offhand with crit strikes, trickery and shadow arts in WvW lately. That feels good, using sword to engage and kite and dagger pistol to hard focus or disengage, but the fact that sword feels better on that than on acro just says a lot about acro. 

Edit: rereading this I realised I went off on one a bit lol. Part of the reason I did this because sword damage is limited by it's manoeuvrability, evasiveness and utility in PvP settings, and historically most sword builds were played with acro, so it's a big part of understanding where we are now. You can't load more damage onto the autos as we had that in HoT and people complained about it, and the only other logical place to put more damage is on the 3 chain, but given that's unblockable that creates other issues if it hits too hard in competitive modes. 

I'd love sword to be in a better place too. But honestly you're better thinking of it as a Swiss army knife than an assassin's blade, and that kind of mindset just doesn't translate to PvE well even if you split and buff the coefficients to insane levels because the utility it provides is generally just not needed in PvE. If the encounters were designed differently then maybe you'd see more use out of it. 

Edit: bloody phone autocorrect 😂

Edited October 11, 2023 by Jugglemonkey.8741

[DeceiverX.8361]

2 hours ago, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

 the sheer amount of boobs being output

Well dang, I didn't think ANet was that desperate.

[ZeroTheRuler.7415]

49 minutes ago, DeceiverX.8361 said:

Well dang, I didn't think ANet was that desperate.

Bahahahahahahaha lol what a good catch. I had a good laugh after I went and re-read it.

Edited October 11, 2023 by ZeroTheRuler.7415

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

12 hours ago, DeceiverX.8361 said:

Well dang, I didn't think ANet was that desperate.

 

11 hours ago, ZeroTheRuler.7415 said:

Bahahahahahahaha lol what a good catch. I had a good laugh after I went and re-read it.

Serves me right for writing posts on my phone I guess. kitten you autocorrect xD 

Edit: so why did the forum filter not catch this, but it doesn't let you shorten deadly arts like we do shadow arts (SA)? At any rate, it's nice to see someone actually reads what I post 😂

Edited October 11, 2023 by Jugglemonkey.8741

[Mhina.1827]

On 10/10/2023 at 5:30 PM, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

It's passable in WvW, not played it in PvP in forever tho. The bigger issue is that most sword builds are disproportionately affected by the relationship between acro and daredevil: when acro is good, sword is good, and acro hasn't been good for literal years now because the original Devs designed daredevil badly with mechanics acro already had to start with, then nerfed acro to the floor to avoid letting us make dodge monsters. Then they introduced mirage and vindicator, seemingly not learning the lesson. Then add to that the fact that boon rip has largely become irrelevant because of the sheer amount of BOONS being output and S/D has lost one of its main niches too. 

I've been playing core sword dagger with dagger pistol offhand with crit strikes, trickery and shadow arts in WvW lately. That feels good, using sword to engage and kite and dagger pistol to hard focus or disengage, but the fact that sword feels better on that than on acro just says a lot about acro. 

Edit: rereading this I realised I went off on one a bit lol. Part of the reason I did this because sword damage is limited by it's manoeuvrability, evasiveness and utility in PvP settings, and historically most sword builds were played with acro, so it's a big part of understanding where we are now. You can't load more damage onto the autos as we had that in HoT and people complained about it, and the only other logical place to put more damage is on the 3 chain, but given that's unblockable that creates other issues if it hits too hard in competitive modes. 

I'd love sword to be in a better place too. But honestly you're better thinking of it as a Swiss army knife than an assassin's blade, and that kind of mindset just doesn't translate to PvE well even if you split and buff the coefficients to insane levels because the utility it provides is generally just not needed in PvE. If the encounters were designed differently then maybe you'd see more use out of it. 

Edit: bloody phone autocorrect 😂

I appreciate the insightful post! Twas a great read that I think well articulates a why sword is where it is. I've been running around with acro thief for a few days because as you said, it just seems married to acro with its sword damage buffs. Then I switched to D/D deadeye and just laughed at the difference in damage. 

[cyberzombie.7348]

On 10/10/2023 at 3:30 PM, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

It's passable in WvW, not played it in PvP in forever tho. The bigger issue is that most sword builds are disproportionately affected by the relationship between acro and daredevil: when acro is good, sword is good, and acro hasn't been good for literal years now because the original Devs designed daredevil badly with mechanics acro already had to start with, then nerfed acro to the floor to avoid letting us make dodge monsters. Then they introduced mirage and vindicator, seemingly not learning the lesson. Then add to that the fact that boon rip has largely become irrelevant because of the sheer amount of BOONS being output and S/D has lost one of its main niches too. 

Pretty much this ^^. Sword builds are only as strong as their staying power, and supposed to fill the role of rogue archetypes. 

[Scynte.1340]

Suggestion for Infiltrator's Return (Sword 2 flipover skill) : 

In addition to what it does now...

Throw your sword at the target, the sword then cuts a path as it returns to the position you return to, hitting enemies along the way. Kind of like Ranger Axe 4. Give some more damage to sword 2.

Maybe there can be a trait or weapon skill option that does this proposed behavior so it can still work as a trick to use from stealth.

Oh! Maybe it only does the current functionality if you're already in stealth. 

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

8 hours ago, Scynte.1340 said:

Suggestion for Infiltrator's Return (Sword 2 flipover skill) : 

In addition to what it does now...

Throw your sword at the target, the sword then cuts a path as it returns to the position you return to, hitting enemies along the way. Kind of like Ranger Axe 4. Give some more damage to sword 2.

Maybe there can be a trait or weapon skill option that does this proposed behavior so it can still work as a trick to use from stealth.

Oh! Maybe it only does the current functionality if you're already in stealth. 

No on the last part

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

15 hours ago, Scynte.1340 said:

Suggestion for Infiltrator's Return (Sword 2 flipover skill) : 

In addition to what it does now...

Throw your sword at the target, the sword then cuts a path as it returns to the position you return to, hitting enemies along the way. Kind of like Ranger Axe 4. Give some more damage to sword 2.

Maybe there can be a trait or weapon skill option that does this proposed behavior so it can still work as a trick to use from stealth.

Oh! Maybe it only does the current functionality if you're already in stealth. 

The problem is that you'll never use infiltrator's strike or return in PvE unless you're trying to spam healing on specter, which already takes you away from a DPS build. With dancing dagger being situational/low single target damage and tactical strike not doing enough damage to justify cloak and dagger (unless you're trying to break a breakbar, but again, that's not DPS) the only logical places to put extra damage without turning S/D into a D/D clone are the flanking strike chain or the auto attacks.

All of these attacks have great functionality in PvP/WvW but that just doesn't translate to PvE because most of the time you don't need stealth, ports, bouncing projectiles, boon rip or unblockable attacks against a champ in PvE, and when you do need those things there's better ways to get them on the class without sacrificing DPS by bringing S/D. 

By the way, there's a relic that adds a projectile when you shadowstep. You might enjoy it: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Relic_of_Peitha

[Doggie.3184]

5 hours ago, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

By the way, there's a relic that adds a projectile when you shadowstep. You might enjoy it: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Relic_of_Peitha

Does the projectile actually do good strike damage though, the condi doesn't matter and can't really capitalize on the +10% damage on next attack cuz sword has no burst skills; just weak multihits from poorly designed dual attacks.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

2 hours ago, Doggie.3184 said:

Does the projectile actually do good strike damage though, the condi doesn't matter and can't really capitalize on the +10% damage on next attack cuz sword has no burst skills; just weak multihits from poorly designed dual attacks.

Pistol whip was actually way better before the nerf. Used to hit more than 5 times and was a quicker animation.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

21 minutes ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

Pistol whip was actually way better before the nerf. Used to hit more than 5 times and was a quicker animation.

It was much better before the nerf as now it's hard to burst with it at all, but I'd not class it as a burst skill even when it did 10k comfortably. The reason is that you have to lead people into it because of the windup, it's clunky as a burst skill in the same way hundred blades is on warrior. It is better used as a counter move to a predicted attack using the evade to hit the opponent when they're vulnerable imo. I also don't much like using quickness with S/P tho, I prefer air and draining sigils for chip damage and reliable evades, so my opinion is based on that too. 

2 hours ago, Doggie.3184 said:

Does the projectile actually do good strike damage though, the condi doesn't matter and can't really capitalize on the +10% damage on next attack cuz sword has no burst skills; just weak multihits from poorly designed dual attacks.

Tbh I don't really know yet, I've only just unlocked it ready to test (been playing a lot of starfield and elden ring lately). The other guy's description of how he would change infiltrator's return just reminded me of that tho, so it was worth the mention. You could probably use it to set up a steal>larcenous strike combo, but there's easier ways to get the 10% damage. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Relic_of_Isgarren would be worth a look in that situation, it practically sets itself up. 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Jugglemonkey.8741

[MorningGlow.5376]

Speaking of Pistol Whip: A few months ago, they changed Flurry so you can now cast it while moving. Since those two skills are somewhat similar, i have hopes they will give Pistol Whip the same treatment. With improved usability, we could reassess how weak/strong it really is.

[Chips.7968]

1 hour ago, MorningGlow.5376 said:

Speaking of Pistol Whip: A few months ago, they changed Flurry so you can now cast it while moving. Since those two skills are somewhat similar, i have hopes they will give Pistol Whip the same treatment. With improved usability, we could reassess how weak/strong it really is.

It's been a few months as you said - so how's that hope holding out?

I have to ask - why did they nerf backstab, malicious backstab, and a host of other thief things?

Then look at capabilities of current balance and various classes. No-one has any faith in Anet's abilities, so the fact your "hopes"  are really quite quaint. 

[MorningGlow.5376]

Since my post is only a couple of days old, quite good i guess?

 

[Doggie.3184]

On 10/14/2023 at 1:50 PM, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

Pistol whip was actually way better before the nerf. Used to hit more than 5 times and was a quicker animation.

Yes, they always nerf our stuff while forgetting what made them functional in the first place. Now both Sword Dual Attacks just feel awful~ and Sword/Dagger used to be my primary Weaponset before they cut it in half and made it feel gross. At this point they mine as well dump it entirely like they did Ranger's Serpent's Strike (which is just a Leap now; no more awkward sideways roll) as it's just not a good skill design now, (Or make it like Flanking Dive~ 1 hit and only moves you if not at back/flank).

On 10/14/2023 at 3:51 PM, MorningGlow.5376 said:

Speaking of Pistol Whip: A few months ago, they changed Flurry so you can now cast it while moving. Since those two skills are somewhat similar, i have hopes they will give Pistol Whip the same treatment. With improved usability, we could reassess how weak/strong it really is.

Shadowsquall uses the animation too while allowing movement. I didn't know they did that to Flurry though. Logically it shoulda went to Thief sword too but was probably forgotten.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Doggie.3184

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

On 10/17/2023 at 3:34 AM, Doggie.3184 said:

Yes, they always nerf our stuff while forgetting what made them functional in the first place. Now both Sword Dual Attacks just feel awful~ and Sword/Dagger used to be my primary Weaponset before they cut it in half and made it feel gross. At this point they mine as well dump it entirely like they did Ranger's Serpent's Strike (which is just a Leap now; no more awkward sideways roll) as it's just not a good skill design now, (Or make it like Flanking Dive~ 1 hit and only moves you if not at back/flank).

Shadowsquall uses the animation too while allowing movement. I didn't know they did that to Flurry though. Logically it shoulda went to Thief sword too but was probably forgotten.

Doesn't surprise me. I play S/P bound in WvW sometimes still as I like the feel of the set and I've been playing it since HoT, but I'm probably one of only a handful of thieves that still play it. 

[cyberzombie.7348]

@Jugglemonkey.8741 Ayy, I've been maining bound s/p since HoT as well. 

[Stx.4857]

Is sword still good in PvP?  I don’t PvP anymore but I remember sw/d builds being decent previously.  
 

I just really want sword to be good in pve I feel like it’s one of the worst weapons in the game for dps.  

[ZvolTx.3165]

On 10/21/2023 at 6:18 AM, cyberzombie.7348 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 Ayy, I've been maining bound s/p since HoT as well. 

I just recently started using s/p bound... from s/p core as my main since 2012 release lol. 

At some point a few months ago, I finally threw in the towel and gave up on trying to use s/p core, it's just too hard against modern meta builds and wasn't fun fighting impossible battles anymore. 

Bound has been fun, ofc I'd tried it in the past but didn't really use it a ton cuz I was hellbent on playing core. It offers a lot more than core does, both offensively and defensively. Still struggles against many of the common roaming builds, but it at least gives you a fighting chance. It even has decent to good matchups with some and can do pretty well at picking off zergs. 

[Jobber.6348]

I feel like if Sword's Auto chain got buffed to be faster, it would be a serious change to sPvP. 

Chain 2 and Chain 3 currently takes 0.5s to complete, but what if it got buffed to take 0.33s to complete instead? 

S/D has niche usage for every skill to control the fight that I like. The one thing about S/D that feels off for me is that it kinda has a bad feeling when you just want to do some small chipping but not an full ini spending commit, everything else that doesn't use Ini feels too slow. Is it just me that feels this way? 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Yasai.3549