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Make more unique relics like Relic of Lhyr


arazoth.7290

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  • arazoth.7290 changed the title to Rework Lhyr relic

instead of answering on whine threads people. Think what can be changed on actual problems in game and not l2p issue.

Like for example lhyr relic taking incoming 50 damage% of all teammates is suicidal and how to better balance this relic.

Edited by arazoth.7290
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3 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

instead of answering on whine threads people. Think what can be changed on actual problems in game and not l2p issue.

Like for example lhyr relic taking incoming 50 damage% of all teammates is suicidal and how to better balance this relic.

It works great on Druid when you can single target an ally with staff and make the lyhr tether on just one person to support who is being bursted.

It probably is terrible on Ele/Guard when everything you do is an AoE heal that hits everyone around you all the time, often procing tether on 2 or 3 people at once.

Lyhr as it is, is the only thing that makes Druid Support actually viable. If you lower its ability to hard defend 1 person with a -50%, it's gonna be a useless relic that no one will use. Also, lowering it to a 20% effect that would AoE stack on all allies around you in conjunction with prot and w/e other effects are in play, would only serve to further glorify the Ele/Guard play style. The 50% is a good number because it makes the relic strong when a player is skilled enough to know to target only one ally for support, but can be very punishing when trying to spam support on several. <- This is the kind of skill cap play we are missing in GW2.

They should keep lyhr the way it is as it supports actual interactive play that is rewarding if done right and punishing it used sloppy. Instead, they should focus on adding more single target heal effects to other supports, so they can also utilize lyhr if they play wisely. IE: Ele water auto 1 should toss small heals at targeted allies, Guard staff autos should toss small heals at targeted allies, ect ect.

My opinion.

Edited by Trevor Boyer.6524
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On 10/22/2023 at 6:18 AM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

It works great on Druid when you can single target an ally with staff and make the lyhr tether on just one person to support who is being bursted.

It probably is terrible on Ele/Guard when everything you do is an AoE heal that hits everyone around you all the time, often procing tether on 2 or 3 people at once.

Lyhr as it is, is the only thing that makes Druid Support actually viable. If you lower its ability to hard defend 1 person with a -50%, it's gonna be a useless relic that no one will use. Also, lowering it to a 20% effect that would AoE stack on all allies around you in conjunction with prot and w/e other effects are in play, would only serve to further glorify the Ele/Guard play style. The 50% is a good number because it makes the relic strong when a player is skilled enough to know to target only one ally for support, but can be very punishing when trying to spam support on several. <- This is the kind of skill cap play we are missing in GW2.

They should keep lyhr the way it is as it supports actual interactive play that is rewarding if done right and punishing it used sloppy. Instead, they should focus on adding more single target heal effects to other supports, so they can also utilize lyhr if they play wisely. IE: Ele water auto 1 should toss small heals at targeted allies, Guard staff autos should toss small heals at targeted allies, ect ect.

My opinion.

no it isn't. Since you're tal'ing now about your 2v2 season pvp here, in 5v5 where most is balanced around you also aoe heal allies so it still doesn't works that well.

The biggest downside which such large damage mitigation taken from allies=> 1 person focuses damage on you for pressure, the other sits on the enemy which you heal. But because of that 50% damage he takes it goes directly to you so now 1,5 people are hitting you while your ally gets killed and you get too much damage. 

I saw footage of you in a video with that relic of lhyr and you didn't do great, your openents didn't even take full advantage of it so you were lucky even. 

No It is too much damage taken and almost all who do support well have aoe heals... 

a 20% damage taken from all allies won't make guard/ele tougher to kill, rather the opposite as trade off for support, which I "think" many would appreciate to fight instead of a really tanky support

Edited by arazoth.7290
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2 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

no it isn't. Since you're tal'ing now about your 2v2 season pvp here, in 5v5 where most is balanced around you also aoe heal allies so it still doesn't works that well.

Nah man. I've been running this Bunker Druid Support in 5v5 for a long time now, ever since SOTO released.

The Staff auto targets 1 person. I can keenly watch who is being targeted and tether just that one person. This in conjunction with Protective Ward -33% which effects all allies in including myself, massively mitigates damage that the person I am protecting takes, and the damage that I am soaking from them. The -50% from Lyhr, and -33% from PW, and the normal -33% Prot that the turtle spams on pet swap all stacks.

Lyhr works fine. I'll record a demo and post it for you here in a bit.

2 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

a 20% damage taken from all allies won't make guard/ele tougher to kill

That's what I mean though, by making it 20% you're just going to render a useless relic that no one will use. In fact, no matter how low of a % you make it, Guards & Eles will still never use it because they CAN'T single target. Even at a 10% in a team fight with a single Elemental Bastion cast on 3-4 guys, you're gonna implode from damage. And at a 10% or 20% only, even a Druid won't use it at that point because it won't have the umph it needs to make an impact for single target defense.

In other words, my initial suggestion was strong. Guard & Ele need the ability to target a single player whom they want to soak damage for if they want to utilize Lyhr. The problem isn't the Lyhr relic.

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40 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Nah man. I've been running this Bunker Druid Support in 5v5 for a long time now, ever since SOTO released.

The Staff auto targets 1 person. I can keenly watch who is being targeted and tether just that one person. This in conjunction with Protective Ward -33% which effects all allies in including myself, massively mitigates damage that the person I am protecting takes, and the damage that I am soaking from them. The -50% from Lyhr, and -33% from PW, and the normal -33% Prot that the turtle spams on pet swap all stacks.

Lyhr works fine. I'll record a demo and post it for you here in a bit.

That's what I mean though, by making it 20% you're just going to render a useless relic that no one will use. In fact, no matter how low of a % you make it, Guards & Eles will still never use it because they CAN'T single target. Even at a 10% in a team fight with a single Elemental Bastion cast on 3-4 guys, you're gonna implode from damage. And at a 10% or 20% only, even a Druid won't use it at that point because it won't have the umph it needs to make an impact for single target defense.

In other words, my initial suggestion was strong. Guard & Ele need the ability to target a single player whom they want to soak damage for if they want to utilize Lyhr. The problem isn't the Lyhr relic.

Oh well record some, I will respond then after it. Idk how many weakness condis you can apply, but if possible add that ontop of this

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Relic of Lhyr is by far the most well designed skills in this game and more designs should be inspired from it. I have a number of reasons (it’s usage is undecidedly complex and takes the shape of properties that are conducive to ideal build craft, such as it’s universality, simplicity, high risk/high reward, and it’s outcome being player driven)

The other relics are in much more need of dire changes…where the design is just…comes nowhere close to how well designed Lhyr is.

I do think the punishment of using Lhyr’s is pretty steep (the punishment for using it wrong is almost instant death) and if they do look into it, that would be the only thing to change about it, is the nature of this punishment (make it less final)…that’s if at all.

Edited by JusticeRetroHunter.7684
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30 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@arazoth.7290

Excuse the low quality aspects. I had to recently reboot my PC and the settings were off.

Here is explanation of Bunker Support Druid running Lyhr. 30 minute video, half of it begins explanation and then last half shows a match demo, finishes explanation of what to focus on in matches.

 

Thanks, was about to tag already if you forgot 😂

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1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@arazoth.7290

Excuse the low quality aspects. I had to recently reboot my PC and the settings were off.

Here is explanation of Bunker Support Druid running Lyhr. 30 minute video, half of it begins explanation and then last half shows a match demo, finishes explanation of what to focus on in matches.

 

okayyy, I thought the relic would affect multipble during the fight with single target even. It works indeed for what it is made yup.

I am not playing ranger myself, but I wish they got better auto single target healing on staff and overal more affected by healing power.

1 question, why you didn't take revive rescue thingy that pet can do for some extra instead?

And I am going to update the thread that they should make more unique relics like this for certain playstyles 😁.

I wonder how well this relic would work with condi support specter, since they have single target too for heals.

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  • arazoth.7290 changed the title to Make more unique relics like Relic of Lhyr

Speaking of using Lyhr’s in this single target manner, I suppose specter is a good candidate to drive builds of this particular play style. Worth considering

is like to also offer the alternative way I think about using Lhyr’s which is through AOe heals, and self damage mitigation and self healing (taking tanky options to divert damage to you and providing self heals to heal yourself with which makes healing power stat a more viable alternative to just purely stacking outgoing healing.)

The full breadth of possibilities are yet to be explored both in PvP and WvW (where PvP is a lot more limited) but I figure there are many many ways to take this relic effect in many kinds of builds and situations.

I’ve even heard of some people using it on necromancers where the damage is absorbed by the shroud. 

 

 

 

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22 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Speaking of using Lyhr’s in this single target manner, I suppose specter is a good candidate to drive builds of this particular play style. Worth considering

is like to also offer the alternative way I think about using Lhyr’s which is through AOe heals, and self damage mitigation and self healing (taking tanky options to divert damage to you and providing self heals to heal yourself with which makes healing power stat a more viable alternative to just purely stacking outgoing healing.)

The full breadth of possibilities are yet to be explored both in PvP and WvW (where PvP is a lot more limited) but I figure there are many many ways to take this relic effect in many kinds of builds and situations.

I’ve even heard of some people using it on necromancers where the damage is absorbed by the shroud. 

 

 

 

Maybe soon we will see different kind of supports because of it y

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