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Dragon Slash


bethekey.8314

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https://clips.twitch.tv/SnappyExpensivePterodactylWholeWheat-GgH3NwpYKRJFm72U

Count the times these experienced Warrior players get hit by Dragon Slash.

It's not just the sustain. It's not just the projectile reflect uptime. Bladesworn churns out 4-9k unblockable, unblindable, AoE stuns every 8 seconds. These AoE burst stuns are protected by aegis+reflect, stability, and teleports. Even if you dodge through it, the hitbox is so big you can still get hit on the backswing.

And even Warrior mains can't dodge it the majority of the times. Isn't that the only defensive angle left?

Oh, and it's like a built in Rocket Boots for mobility / escape.

Other than Anet ineptitude, someone please tell me why this, and multiple other aspects of this class aren't already nerfed six ways from Sunday? How do we go from "vulnerable windup" and "big hits should be easy to dodge" to invulnerable windup and Warrior mains, solely focused on dodging, failing the majority of times?

Hot take: For how low cd it is, how protected it is, for how much utility it has, for the hitbox, for the animation speed, Dragon Slashes should do <2k damage maximum crits when activated in <2 seconds. Maximum 5k crit if charged long enough for the Warrior to actually be vulnerable. Say ~1k damage/sec charged to keep it simple.

Edited by bethekey.8314
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The best part about bsw is .... it countered warrior Builds with all its sustain Aegis and unblockable CCs. And yes i hate this spec cause it relies on hitting this (from some peoples called OP) slow telegraphed dragonslash mechanic. If warr was'nt just one Trick pony enough before bsw is just that lmao

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1 hour ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Step 1. Create a fan fiction Elite spec nobody wants or needs. 

Step 2. Realize that the core design behind it is literally unplayable in Gw2's combat style. 

Step 3. Uber buff it's numbers to compensate for its failed design. 

^

Warrior did not need a third DPS espec.

Bladesworn is full of bad design, mechanical jank, and a fighting style that is the antithesis of what is needed to succeed in the game. Because of all that it needed it's sustain pumped through the roof to even function as intended.

Hate that? Well, CMC is the one that designed it and he is the balance lead...

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Spellbreaker should be duelist, berserker should be teamfighter, bladesworn should be bruiser.
Spellbreaker is duelist, berserker is duelist, bladesworn is duelist.

I'm not sure this whole thing is fun, but then again, shuffling roles is not something ANet does easily, and we've seen that when 4 necromancer specs are all teamfighters.

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26 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Spellbreaker should be duelist, berserker should be teamfighter, bladesworn should be bruiser.
Spellbreaker is duelist, berserker is duelist, bladesworn is duelist.

I'm not sure this whole thing is fun, but then again, shuffling roles is not something ANet does easily, and we've seen that when 4 necromancer specs are all teamfighters.

How much of that is from the core chassis though? Perhaps there is only so much that can be done to shift that role in the end.

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54 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

How much of that is from the core chassis though? Perhaps there is only so much that can be done to shift that role in the end.

When you're wild enough you can differentiate the roles properly IMHO. Druid, weaver, specter are perfect examples of this, and I explicitly chose one for each expansion. I particularly love weaver for the versatility of its toolbox, which allowed it to be both a teamfighter, a duelist and a roamer.

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3 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Spellbreaker should be duelist, berserker should be teamfighter, bladesworn should be bruiser.
Spellbreaker is duelist, berserker is duelist, bladesworn is duelist.

I'm not sure this whole thing is fun, but then again, shuffling roles is not something ANet does easily, and we've seen that when 4 necromancer specs are all teamfighters.

You know what is bugging me the most, this kitten is the same in PVE, like they literally have a tank spec with a tank mechanic and had a rework for boon supports and they gave the alacrity to bladesworn, there is such obvious WIN here but someone decided nope SpB is DPS only. I'm amazed how much effort they put to do the wrong design instead of the obvious one.
For PVP Bladesworn could have been Roamer or a Teamfighter, since it is stuck with the floaty gunsabre  and could have been pigeonholed there since it is stuck with one weapon.
At least it is better then before since you get to play the profession and it has at least one build working compared to before where there were 3 to 5 builds in play and everything else was non existent. 

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4 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

How much of that is from the core chassis though? Perhaps there is only so much that can be done to shift that role in the end.

I'm wondering this same thing, looking through the traits etc. Engi suffered greatly from nerfing the core class and obviously that's to be avoided.

I only suggest reducing the damage because numbers should be easy to change. Looking through the meta builds of Bladesworn it looks like they're taking 2 stunbreaks and mostly defensive utilities/traits/relics. Risk should accompany good damage; I'd like to see what Bladesworn could do if people actually played it for damage.

2 hours ago, Endorphin.9147 said:

They removed the stability from dragon slash. If they have stab its from other sources.  Blade is still strong though yeah. 

You're saying Dslash doesn't interact with Stalwart Strength anymore? Dragonscale Defense still gives Stab on Dtrigger. Brave Stride gives stab on teleport too, no? And Balanced Stance can be cast during Dtrigger to protect it.

That's what, 3-4 sources of stability that can protect Dslash?

Edited by bethekey.8314
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54 minutes ago, JosephKatz.9375 said:

This man only complains because defense bladesworn directly deals with the atrocious engineer spec design (Holosmith, Scrapper) ((The only class he plays, which might be the contributing problem here “Waah, this spec counters me and I don’t like it!” Like most forum posts today.)) whether it’s Ranged/CC spam 1-Shot potential with Holo, or stealth 1 shot with scrapper that has gone unchecked for far too long. How about reduce the damage of these two offending specs by 50% and we can reduce the aegis duration or application by 50%? Is that fair? 

I like this interaction because Bladesworn locks out engie about as hard as lockon holo/scrapper locks out thief. 

11 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/SnappyExpensivePterodactylWholeWheat-GgH3NwpYKRJFm72U

Count the times these experienced Warrior players get hit by Dragon Slash.

They're both playing bladesworn, They don't need to dodge.

Quote

It's not just the sustain. It's not just the projectile reflect uptime. Bladesworn churns out 4-9k unblockable, unblindable, AoE stuns every 8 seconds. These AoE burst stuns are protected by aegis+reflect, stability, and teleports. Even if you dodge through it, the hitbox is so big you can still get hit on the backswing.

Didn't ask for this.

Quote

And even Warrior mains can't dodge it the majority of the times. Isn't that the only defensive angle left?

Again, they're both playing bladesworn. The bar here is pretty low.

Quote

How do we go from "vulnerable windup" and "big hits should be easy to dodge"

Because people got hit by big hits, cried and whined and seethed, and then it got padded to placate them.

Quote

to invulnerable windup and Warrior mains, solely focused on dodging, failing the majority of times?

both bladesworn. no dodging required Also, because the specs that need to dodge are trash. When's the last time you saw a spellbreaker or a competent power zerker?

Quote

Hot take: For how low cd it is, how protected it is, for how much utility it has, for the hitbox, for the animation speed, Dragon Slashes should do <2k damage maximum crits when activated in <2 seconds.

2k crits if under 2 seconds. sure. 

Quote

Maximum 5k crit if charged long enough for the Warrior to actually be vulnerable. Say ~1k damage/sec charged to keep it simple.

If I charge it for 5 seconds and you still get hit, don't interrupt me, or don't move away  it should hit you for 10k, with reach hitting for 5k. Thanks. 

Edited by Azure The Heartless.3261
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2 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

They're both playing bladesworn, They don't need to dodge.

Lol, I was thinking this too. But, they are, and they do. They both eventually get low too, surprised by the Dslash 7k+ hits I think.

3 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Again, they're both playing bladesworn. The bar here is pretty low.

You'd be surprised how many people don't see any problem with the class and further, think more of themselves for winning on it. It's strange.

5 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

If I charge it for 5 seconds and you still get hit, don't interrupt me, or don't move away  it should hit you for 10k, with reach hitting for 5k. Thanks. 

If Aegis could be cleared from range, I'm totally with you. If so, the melee only Dslash should clearly do good damage. Boost should do little damage. Reach in between.

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10 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I like this interaction because Bladesworn locks out engie about as hard as lockon holo/scrapper locks out thief. 

 

Well it’s really the same projectile hate that the original poster is complaining about bladesworn, can also be said for thief when going into a holosmith or scrapper. Blocks and reflects out the wazoo. If one is reduced, so should the other. Pot calling Kettle black, I have a difficult time sympathizing with this logic.

Edited by JosephKatz.9375
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7 minutes ago, bethekey.8314 said:

Lol, I was thinking this too. But, they are, and they do. They both eventually get low too, surprised by the Dslash 7k+ hits I think.

You'd be surprised how many people don't see any problem with the class and further, think more of themselves for winning on it. It's strange.

If Aegis could be cleared from range, I'm totally with you. If so, the melee only Dslash should clearly do good damage. Boost should do little damage. Reach in between.

Aegis CAN be cleared from range, the issue that you’re neglecting to mention (you probably don’t even realize) has nothing to do with aegis itself and more with the Shield Master changes that needed to happen when the CD was increased on this trait, so they widened the reflect range via any block (aegis included) in general which is why bladesworn has tons of reflect if they go Defense which not all bladesworn players do. I wish it was this simple of an explanation for the problems that exist with Holosmith/Scrapper or other projectile hate classes right now.

Edited by JosephKatz.9375
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14 minutes ago, JosephKatz.9375 said:

he issue has nothing to do with aegis itself and more with the Shield Master changes that needed to happen when the CD was increased on this trait, so they widened the reflect range via any block (aegis included) in general

This is a good point, but at the same time I need that interaction to justify savage leap and hope they don't change it globally (they probably will)

20 minutes ago, bethekey.8314 said:

You'd be surprised how many people don't see any problem with the class and further, think more of themselves for winning on it. It's strange.

I have strong opinions on a class being shipped that simultaneously

  • enables people not willing to interact with their opponents buttons in any meaningful way due to its trait interactions with shield master, when skill interaction is what warrior is about (otherwise, why would their GMS be on hit, instead of on use)?
  •  counters the players on other warrior specs because it no longer has to do the above
  •  prevents the other warrior specs from being appropriately balanced because it can take advantage of any trait changes made to core
  •  exists in the current state being rewarded for not dodging, while the specs with easier to exploit damage windows get handed nerfs due to people in WvW who do not dodge

But I'd get banned so barely restrained sardonic posts about this clown show it is

Please 2v1 every bladesworn (using shield master I guess) you see, they don't deserve peace.

Edited by Azure The Heartless.3261
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9 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

I'm wondering this same thing, looking through the traits etc. Engi suffered greatly from nerfing the core class and obviously that's to be avoided.

I only suggest reducing the damage because numbers should be easy to change. Looking through the meta builds of Bladesworn it looks like they're taking 2 stunbreaks and mostly defensive utilities/traits/relics. Risk should accompany good damage; I'd like to see what Bladesworn could do if people actually played it for damage.

You're saying Dslash doesn't interact with Stalwart Strength anymore? Dragonscale Defense still gives Stab on Dtrigger. Brave Stride gives stab on teleport too, no? And Balanced Stance can be cast during Dtrigger to protect it.

That's what, 3-4 sources of stability that can protect Dslash?

Dragonscale defense was nerfed for pvp. Now its just prot, no stab at all. At least fact check stuff before spreading misinformation.

No one takes stalwart strength because they need cleansing ire.

The others are used but it isnt sourced on bladesworn itself. My argument was they nerfed dragonscale defense so dragon slash doesnt have that guarenteed stab like you claimed.

I still agreed that bladesworn is strong so i dont even know why you are getting so defensive...

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13 minutes ago, Endorphin.9147 said:

Dragonscale defense was nerfed for pvp. Now its just prot, no stab at all. At least fact check stuff before spreading misinformation.

No one takes stalwart strength because they need cleansing ire.

The others are used but it isnt sourced on bladesworn itself. My argument was they nerfed dragonscale defense so dragon slash doesnt have that guarenteed stab like you claimed.

I still agreed that bladesworn is strong so i dont even know why you are getting so defensive...

Ah yeah, I was focused on Stalwart Strength because that's what triggers on Dslash.

12 hours ago, Endorphin.9147 said:

They removed the stability from dragon slash.

Instead, you meant Dtrigger, which I would have looked up on Gw2 wiki had you specified correctly. I have no problems admitting that was wrong and I do look things up. Somehow I doubt you'll be as courteous in your own mistake.

18 minutes ago, Endorphin.9147 said:

The others are used but it isnt sourced on bladesworn itself. My argument was they nerfed dragonscale defense so dragon slash doesnt have that guarenteed stab like you claimed.

Again, Dtrigger not Dslash. And regardless of Stalwart being run (it's the trait choice on metabattle :P), the pretty recent change on Dragonscale Defense, you still get stability from Brave Stride no? 2 charges, instant cast, on demand when you want it. Then there's still Balanced Stance.

20 hours ago, bethekey.8314 said:

These AoE burst stuns are protected by aegis+reflect, stability, and teleports.

So I stand by my original claim. Nothing in my reply to you was meant to upset you Endo. People can disagree without it being a fight. You are a very sensitive person and that's ok.

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This has not offended me in the slightest. No need to make something out of nothing lmao. Yeah i was mostly talking about dragon trigger. Which originally the problem was having the stab during the trigger.  Now thats gone only obnoxious thing during the charge is the aegis. If you can get past that, CCing the trigger puts it on full cooldown which cuts the sustain from blade by a ton.

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6 minutes ago, Endorphin.9147 said:

This has not offended me in the slightest. No need to make something out of nothing lmao. Yeah i was mostly talking about dragon trigger. Which originally the problem was having the stab during the trigger.  Now thats gone only obnoxious thing during the charge is the aegis. If you can get past that, CCing the trigger puts it on full cooldown which cuts the sustain from blade by a ton.

That is his problem. He plays engi and non-projectile ranged attacks are nonexistent on that class.

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6 hours ago, Endorphin.9147 said:

only obnoxious thing during the charge is the aegis

And the stability and teleports.

6 hours ago, Endorphin.9147 said:

If you can get past that

Without buying SOTO or playing Nade Scrappper, I realistically can't.

6 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

That is his problem. He plays engi and non-projectile ranged attacks are nonexistent on that class.

Yep. Projectile hate is the hardest counter in the game.

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