revenant patch update ☺️❤️

[arazoth.7290]

6 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

   You lose vigor on evade and your +25% increase in effectiveness for the vigor you granted to yourself. The trait already shared normal vigor with nearby allies. I don't see how this couldn't be considered as a nerf, unless you only play at PvE (and even then...). And for what? To give relevance to a F2 skill in a spec which alreday lost most of its personality? 

  @azaroth: I don't really care about the buffs in hammer; you can only nerf a thing to a dregree and for a time it allows to some redemption later and for me that point was crossed too many years ago, so it became nauseating. And I don't care if becomes the best weapon in the game since I won't run it. At the moment I'm perfectly fine in PvP playing the worst spec in the game and my ratings didn't decline. 

They always show these boon duration in pvp mode. So for pvp it is 6 seconds without boons duration increase. In pve/WvW this number will be higher and you can get more boon duration in these modes. If it vigor is still too low, they easy adjust it. For pvp, the previous version was so underpowered nobody used it anymore... .

The 25% effectiveness is replaced for more support option => You get 10 more endurance so you have now 25 or 35 endurance gain and you also share this 25-35 endurance with allies instantly. You give allies instant endurance + vigor boon on large enough 360 radius (larger then dodge). This only requires a meager 10 energy.

The F skill became usefull because of it and worth using. You can still use your dodges for the other related traits. This f skill is more reliant/easier to give allies it and the cast time is really short

[Buran.3796]

32 minutes ago, Warscythes.9307 said:

I think this change will make the class much more fun even in WvW. 

Yes the elite mechanic button should provide value, so it should be buffed and this is the right way to do it. 

As a side note, you know you can rebind your keys right. If you think somehow having 3 F keys are too much which I find it difficult to believe, then just rebind it some other key that you are used to.

  Then buff the skill without butchering a functional trait in use.

   I don't known the general quorum of this subforum at WvW roaming, but in my opinion after SotO Vindi is the only Rev spec with favorable/neutral matchups against the monster specs which emerged from EoD. Power Rev, condi Rev, Renegade... all have clear weakness, whereas Harbinger, Willbender, Catalyst, Virtuoso... they don't fool around. The main achievement of Vindi in competitive game modes was binging up condi cleanses to Rev; SotO sealed the deal providing a viable ranged weapon for sustained pressure, so Vindi is now competitive. The changes makes Vindi weaker.

   This patch will end in nerfs to to short bow (which got buffs no one asked as happened with Forced Engagement  which later was nerfed and finally "restored" to a weaker version than it was) and a nerfed Vindi evade. And worries me since CmC has been running in circles buffing a condi Rev for PvP which go to nowhere while constantly nerfs the power output of greatsword and Archey. They had success at making me abandon Rev in PvP after 8 years, and I'm seing the lines of a similar aftermath in WvW.

   Also there's nothing wrong with my keybinds, I use all F keys in Guardians quite oftenly and even F4 in Renegade. The problem is that for Vindi to me the F2 did never exist, because did nothing, so my muscular memory prevents me for using F2 while in Vindi. And having F3 with the Alliance but not Shiro also confuses me.  That doesn't happens with professions with consistent design as Guardian... 

[Warscythes.9307]

53 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

  Then buff the skill without butchering a functional trait in use.

   I don't known the general quorum of this subforum at WvW roaming, but in my opinion after SotO Vindi is the only Rev spec with favorable/neutral matchups against the monster specs which emerged from EoD. Power Rev, condi Rev, Renegade... all have clear weakness, whereas Harbinger, Willbender, Catalyst, Virtuoso... they don't fool around. The main achievement of Vindi in competitive game modes was binging up condi cleanses to Rev; SotO sealed the deal providing a viable ranged weapon for sustained pressure, so Vindi is now competitive. The changes makes Vindi weaker.

   This patch will end in nerfs to to short bow (which got buffs no one asked as happened with Forced Engagement  which later was nerfed and finally "restored" to a weaker version than it was) and a nerfed Vindi evade. And worries me since CmC has been running in circles buffing a condi Rev for PvP which go to nowhere while constantly nerfs the power output of greatsword and Archey. They had success at making me abandon Rev in PvP after 8 years, and I'm seing the lines of a similar aftermath in WvW.

   Also there's nothing wrong with my keybinds, I use all F keys in Guardians quite oftenly and even F4 in Renegade. The problem is that for Vindi to me the F2 did never exist, because did nothing, so my muscular memory prevents me for using F2 while in Vindi. And having F3 with the Alliance but not Shiro also confuses me.  That doesn't happens with professions with consistent design as Guardian... 

I am actually going to challenge something here. Song of Arboreum currently grants base 1 second of vigor and +25% vigor enhancement in WvW. Now I don't know what is the current meta vindi roam build at the moment, but I don't really think there are other sources of vigor in builds that you'd commonly run whether it be salvation or retribution, instead is just mostly raw endurance gain from minors/sigils/boon duration etc. I know energy sigil is a popular pick but what other source of vigor do you even have aside from dodge? Are you saying 1 second of vigor and 25% enhancement on dodge(which makes it 62.5% instead of 50%) is just straight up better than 6 seconds of vigor and 10 endurance for 10 energy? Considering the numbers were shown in PvP which historically has lower numbers compared to WvW and PvE, it has the potential to be higher. I actually don't think this is a nerf without actually trying it out but rather a change as you will get a period of increased vigor gain and then just have to be a bit more mindful when is down. I think is not that clear cut as a glance as you might think.

In any case, I once again would feel the need to point out that numbers can change. What is important is play style. I don't think anybody will disagree that jump is the most noticeable feature of vindicator and it absolutely need an elite spec mechanic button that is worth pressing. You even agreed it lost flavor since the dodge change, so doesn't make perfect sense to try to regain the flavor by buffing the button so is worth using especially to enhance the spec's niche? You mentioned yourself that F2 doesn't exist for Vindi, that is a huge problem and this is one of the better ways I can think of to deal with it. Instead of just say "oh well, is useless so we should just ignore it because is useless", why not make it not useless and try to regain some of the flavor it has lost?

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Warscythes.9307

[draxynnic.3719]

5 hours ago, Royal Grand Majesty.9852 said:

If the upcoming Scepter is a ranged healing weapon, Heal Rev will finally have a complete healing weapon set combination with Scepter/Shield + Staff.

The thought has crossed my mind that Glint is the one legend without a full set of weapon skills. A Glint-themed scepter designed to synergise with shield would fit in that space nicely - and such a synergy would likely fit it into a support role. 

[Knighthonor.4061]

5 hours ago, Kanok.3027 said:

This is exactly what I'm hoping for! Scepter/Shield + Staff with Alliance/Ventari or even Jalis/Ventari. Now if only they'd make tablet follow right on you like gyros...

Now if only they could unnerf Saint support, because its kind of weak in WvW

[Knighthonor.4061]

• Song of Arboreum: This trait has been reworked. Energy Meld grants more energy and also grants its energy and vigor to nearby allies.

what does this mean?

[otto.5684]

Unless I misunderstanding the change to song of aroberum is a strong nerf. Not really sure why. Losing the vigor on dodge is bad for none instanced content and losing the extra endurance, is a dps loss. The major master skills did need a rework, but this is just a nerf.

 

[Warscythes.9307]

1 hour ago, otto.5684 said:

Unless I misunderstanding the change to song of aroberum is a strong nerf. Not really sure why. Losing the vigor on dodge is bad for none instanced content and losing the extra endurance, is a dps loss. The major master skills did need a rework, but this is just a nerf.

 

From a PvE perspective, I think there are two important points to make here.

Currently there is still a massive powercreep in the game. I know Anet has more or less established that 40k dps is the average these days, the fact remains every class and build is busted in PvE, in open or instanced play. You absolutely do not want to buff the classes to its already most commonly used traits.

For instance or open worldcontent, forerunner of death can be upkept even with 0 vigor or any external endurance gain. You want to use it every 10 seconds and you get back 1 dodge naturally by the time is over. If you are playing vindicator in open world, you are using alliance because of the perma quickness and that happens to get 20 endurance per target hit. It is beyond busted that you can just spam it. If you have to force me to choose between if this is a nerf or buff to open world vindi with no option in between, I would lean towards nerf just because now it requires pressing more button. But given the options you have for endurance gain though, you are more capped than not that I doubt to see it be an issue at all especially you can still take song. It just works more in a burst than consistent gain especially now the other options are worth considering.

tl;dr: You will live

Edited October 28, 2023 by Warscythes.9307

[arazoth.7290]

You all saw the boon duration in pvp lobby instance, which is always lower compared to WvW/pve. The boon duration in these other instances will be most then likely on par and have same vigor duration. The only difference will be that you gain/share with it 25 endurance in WvW/pvp and 35 endurance in pve 360 radius which is a nice support trait increase. This trait choice will be used more for self sustain or support and the other 2 options will be used in future for dps more

[Sereath.1428]

Alright.

While I do think this might be a step in the right direction, I do see how this is a nerf to the frequency of dodges and in consequence a nerf to damage and utility:
 

1. Reaver's Curse: No complaints here, it was bad in every game mode. The new version is certainly much more interesting.
2. Angsiyan's Trust: Mostly a sPvP trait because Song is terrible there. Right now you get 10 endurance (meaning you can dodge 2 seconds earlier from the usual 10s) with every legend swap and also with every alliance tactics swap. So 10 endurance for going into Shiro/whatever then 10 again when you swap back to Alliance and 10 more when you swap between orange and blue sides. That was very useful and will be a great loss.
3. Song of Arboreum: Now this is just a nerf to me. And it's not about the vigor with each dodge, but the enhancement part: Vigor Effectiveness Increase: 25% 
   This had very nice synergy with Relic of Evasion (PvE/WvW version). And thematically it made sense.

And from what I saw on stream, Energy Meld still has a 30 second cooldown. Still costs 10e (which isnt terrible), still +15 endurance by default and still has a casting time.
(So the same values as now for both sPvP and WvW)
That is not so great, especially the cooldown. But mostly in contrast to current Angsiyan's Trust and Song of Arboreum.
Maybe if the cooldown was 20s and it had no casting time.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Sereath.1428

[Buran.3796]

7 hours ago, Warscythes.9307 said:

. I know energy sigil is a popular pick but what other source of vigor do you even have aside from dodge? Are you saying 1 second of vigor and 25% enhancement on dodge(which makes it 62.5% instead of 50%) is just straight up better than 6 seconds of vigor and 10 endurance for 10 energy? Considering the numbers were shown in PvP which historically has lower numbers compared to WvW and PvE, it has the potential to be higher.

What is important is play style. I don't think anybody will disagree that jump is the most noticeable feature of vindicator and it absolutely need an elite spec mechanic button that is worth pressing. You even agreed it lost flavor since the dodge change, so doesn't make perfect sense to try to regain the flavor by buffing the button so is worth using especially to enhance the spec's niche?

     Song of Arboreum with my current WvW setup (+59,6% extra boon duration acoring to the build editor) grants 1.5 seconds of vigor, swaping to the Alliance another 6.5 seconds and energy sigils grant another 50% (25 points) of endurance on swap. So each time we dodge or swap to Alliance or swap weapons we are close to being able to dodge again, and dodge not only provides evasion frames, but also removes conditions, gives extra healing sources, might and protection. The legend swap is also a huge source of fury and regeneration (in large numbers (8 and 9.5 seconds respectively). So it works like a well greased mechanism with plenty of synergies to use.

     I don't see any advantage in the change. And related to playstile and the need of having a flavour for each spec so they don't feel redundant or useless a little reminder:

* Herald's "playstile" is currently something like this: you activate a skill with a heavy upkeep energy cost to provide quicknes to your partners, then you camp auto attack being careful to not use anything else to not mess the quickness uptime. Really exciting stuff.

* Renegade's playstile brings much more freedom since you can provide perma alacrity at minimal cost of oportunity which brings you free hands to use plenty of skills. Sadly the quorum is that Renegade is weaker than other alacrity providers so the real identity of Renegade is "you are niche". And is no longer a most if you want to play at range so...

   The reality is that with the change the F2 becomes a copycat of Ancient Echo, which instead of providing energy for free provides vigor in exchange of energy. I don't need vigor if you don't steal if from Song of Arboreum in first place, thanks, and if getting  "getting vigor" from pressing F2 will become the "flavour of the spec" then wow, Firebrand users did die from a diabetic shock with so many flavours at their disposal.

   SotO weapon masteries homogenized choices and gear, this allows to fix weakness in past specs, but if the spec already lacked any maningful mechanic because they spent 15 minutes in the wc designing it, there's no way the changes will add anything. How can you compare Emergy Meld with Spellbreaker's Full Counter, Specter's Shadow Shroud, Deadeye's Mark, Druid's Celestial Avatar, Holosmith's Photong Forge, etc?  Even specs with utterly meh new mechanics as Tempest have more flavour than Vindi in the F skill regard.

   The closest thing to Vindi in terms of nothingness of F skills is the Daredevil, which has as only distinction to have the ability to stack 3 evades with a better animations. The flavour in the Vindicator is in the dodges, they shouldn't try to make Energy Meld a thing I(specially making worse other things which do work) because at the end of the day Energy Meld is and will keep being an uninspiring thing with low impact, 0 visual flavour and a stolen animation recycled from other class. So don't make worse my dodges to try to buff a ultra-low-effort design failure as is Energy Meld.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Buran.3796

[hash.8462]

10 hours ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

Contained Temper change is bad. Non-Herald revs just lost a major source of long duration fury. Especially bad since you can’t get fury from Firework/Pack runes anymore either. Not a great change 

Well, we will get this on 7 nov... but obviously you lose the relic you are using now.

Relic of the Midnight King: Grant might and fury to nearby allies when you disable an enemy

 

[Buran.3796]

8 minutes ago, hash.8462 said:

Well, we will get this on 7 nov... but obviously you lose the relic you are using now.

Relic of the Midnight King: Grant might and fury to nearby allies when you disable an enemy

 

   You're proving his point: is a nerf.

[Tokizo.8917]

Ok, i read a lot of  "not heralds will not get fury" anymore, but i don't think that is true.

As a Herald: Yes, just use Facet of Darkness

As a Vindicator: just use Scavenger Burst

As a Renegade you gain fury through Endless Enmity. And since Heartpiercer now is not really needed for the piercing effect as it is baseline for shwortbow, you can think about using Empowering Roar.
 

Don't forget that Deathstrike and Phantom's Onslaught (even though it is not metioned in the tooltip) also provides Fury. 

Lastly you also get fury when invoking any legend with Invoker's Rage and you can also use Assassin's Presence

[Jobber.6348]

I'm just finally happy that Contained Temper changed. 

And idk what people are smoking saying we lose Fury uptime because Power Revenants who are actually playing with the focus of dealing power damage don't actually have alot of CC in their pocket to keep proccing Contained Temper. 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Yasai.3549

[Warscythes.9307]

1 hour ago, Buran.3796 said:

     Song of Arboreum with my current WvW setup (+59,6% extra boon duration acoring to the build editor) grants 1.5 seconds of vigor, swaping to the Alliance another 6.5 seconds and energy sigils grant another 50% (25 points) of endurance on swap. So each time we dodge or swap to Alliance or swap weapons we are close to being able to dodge again, and dodge not only provides evasion frames, but also removes conditions, gives extra healing sources, might and protection. The legend swap is also a huge source of fury and regeneration (in large numbers (8 and 9.5 seconds respectively). So it works like a well greased mechanism with plenty of synergies to use.

 

Do you think somehow that this would no longer work? Instead of 1.5 seconds per dodge, you would get minimal of 9-9.5 seconds of vigor on energy meld and 10 endurance. Is not like you suddenly get no vigor or endurance gain at all. All that really changed is that you have to be mindful of when to press the button. 

Quote

* Herald's "playstile" is currently something like this: you activate a skill with a heavy upkeep energy cost to provide quicknes to your partners, then you camp auto attack being careful to not use anything else to not mess the quickness uptime. Really exciting stuff.

Since you are talking about providing quickness to your partners, I am going to assume this is about PvE. This is absolutely not true and shows you have never played quickness herald in any sort of PvE content. You never camp auto attack. This is just flat out wrong. Even if this is about small scale herald roam, is still wrong. Where on earth did you get the idea that all you do is autoattack and turn on facets? Do you seriously sit there and do nothing and just wait for your energy to drain? Wtf is that?

Quote

* Renegade's playstile brings much more freedom since you can provide perma alacrity at minimal cost of oportunity which brings you free hands to use plenty of skills. Sadly the quorum is that Renegade is weaker than other alacrity providers so the real identity of Renegade is "you are niche". And is no longer a most if you want to play at range so...

Again, when you are talking about alacrity providers, I am not sure if you are talking about PvE or WvW small scale. If we are talking about PvE, you are again incorrect. Condi alacrity renegade currently bench the highest of all dps ala providers. Yes the rotation is much harder to do, but where did you get the idea that is just weaker than other alacrity providers? Is nowhere near the bottom. If is about small scale roam, then I don't have enough experience in playing alacrity providers at all to give some sort of feedback. 

Quote

 

   The reality is that with the change the F2 becomes a copycat of Ancient Echo, which instead of providing energy for free provides vigor in exchange of energy. I don't need vigor if you don't steal if from Song of Arboreum in first place, thanks, and if getting  "getting vigor" from pressing F2 will become the "flavour of the spec" then wow, Firebrand users did die from a diabetic shock with so many flavours at their disposal.

   SotO weapon masteries homogenized choices and gear, this allows to fix weakness in past specs, but if the spec already lacked any maningful mechanic because they spent 15 minutes in the wc designing it, there's no way the changes will add anything. How can you compare Emergy Meld with Spellbreaker's Full Counter, Specter's Shadow Shroud, Deadeye's Mark, Druid's Celestial Avatar, Holosmith's Photong Forge, etc?  Even specs with utterly meh new mechanics as Tempest have more flavour than Vindi in the F skill regard.

   The closest thing to Vindi in terms of nothingness of F skills is the Daredevil, which has as only distinction to have the ability to stack 3 evades with a better animations. The flavour in the Vindicator is in the dodges, they shouldn't try to make Energy Meld a thing I(specially making worse other things which do work) because at the end of the day Energy Meld is and will keep being an uninspiring thing with low impact, 0 visual flavour and a stolen animation recycled from other class. So don't make worse my dodges to try to buff a ultra-low-effort design failure as is Energy Meld.

 

Again you are so shackled on the new button being "it providers vigor". No, the point is to make it enhance and differentiate the niche which you have once again admitted that it lacks meaningful interactions. Having the elite button buff the jump is how you do it precisely because weapons are now universals, so how else do you buff and separate unless is about the elite spec's main attraction point? Yes energy meld is the least interesting profession button to press and that's why they should make it more flavorful! I just don't understand how you can fully admit that energy meld needs to be more interesting and then completely refuse to accept changes that modify how it works. Is not going to be the same as reaper shroud change no, but it introduces a potential new playstyle via buffing the damage of the jumps assuming the numbers are there which will gives it more synergy than press the damage button that lights up. If this is not enough, then they can simply add more. The point is that the direction is correct, numbers can come later.

Look, just read your own post. Energy meld is bad and unflavorful, so we should try to make it more flavorful and more interesting to press. Given weapons can be used by all, buffing or tweaking the elite profession selling point aka the jump for vindi make sense. We good so far? So this change of energy meld used to buff jumps makes perfect sense, right? Because we are buffing the underwhelming profession button to buff the profession selling point to make it more attractive. Doesn't this make perfect sense instead of just say energy meld is bad and we should just ignore it forever and let it be as it is? 

[Buran.3796]

8 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

I'm just finally happy that Contained Temper changed. 

   Why? In PvE, if you play well, you'll never get anything if it since ideally you'll never get stunned. And in WvW you have more sources to proc it as is now than sources to proc a breakstun once the change is implemented. You like having useless traits/entire traitlines? 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Buran.3796

[Warscythes.9307]

4 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Why? In PvE, if you play well, you'll never get anything if it since ideally you'll never get stunned. And in WvW you have more sources to proc it as is now than sources to proc a breakstun once the change is implemented. You like having useless traits/entire traitlines? 

I would like to meet the people that never get hit by any hard cc in PvE just for playing well. 

[Justine.6351]

The pve revenant update.

[arazoth.7290]

On 10/28/2023 at 6:57 AM, Knighthonor.4061 said:

• Song of Arboreum: This trait has been reworked. Energy Meld grants more energy and also grants its energy and vigor to nearby allies.

what does this mean?

Atm in pve it grants 25 endurance and in WvW/pvp 15 endurance.

Song of Arboreum will increase endurance(energy is mistake written) by another 10 endurance and you gain vigor, you also will will share this endurance and vigor with allies in 360 radius. 

pve: 35 endurance gained/shared with allies 360 radius + x vigor duration according to instance

pvp/WvW: 25 endurance gained/shared with allies 360 radius + x vigor duration according to instance 

Edited October 29, 2023 by arazoth.7290

[Jobber.6348]

21 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Why? In PvE, if you play well, you'll never get anything if it since ideally you'll never get stunned. And in WvW you have more sources to proc it as is now than sources to proc a breakstun once the change is implemented. You like having useless traits/entire traitlines? 

Honestly don't see how it will dramatically affect PvE either cos if you are playing Revenant in Fractals or Strikes or Raids, especially as a DPS, you have people spilling Fury onto you. Unless you're trying to desperately do solo content, it won't be a huge hit.

On the other hand having Stunbreaks give you Energy back is a really useful thing because it directly offsets the burden of pressing Shiro Stunbreak or any Stunbreak for the matter. I see this as a direct Core buff where Stunbreaks are usually very pricey to use no matter the mode. Having more Energy allows you more flexibility and lets an Invocation player have more indirect options for the GM trait if they wish to pick SotM or Roiling. We have to see just how affected Revenant is from this change before we talk about uselessness, unlike things which are obviously useless like Assassin's Presence which desperately need a rework. 
 

[Buran.3796]

4 minutes ago, Warscythes.9307 said:

Do you think somehow that this would no longer work? Instead of 1.5 seconds per dodge, you would get minimal of 9-9.5 seconds of vigor on energy meld and 10 endurance. Is not like you suddenly get no vigor or endurance gain at all. All that really changed is that you have to be mindful of when to press the button. 

 

Look, just read your own post. Energy meld is bad and unflavorful, so we should try to make it more flavorful and more interesting to press.

 

Because we are buffing the underwhelming profession button to buff the profession selling point to make it more attractive. Doesn't this make perfect sense instead of just say energy meld is bad and we should just ignore it forever and let it be as it is? 

  9.5 seconds on a 30 seconds cooldown which has an energy cost and has a cast time which can be interrupted vs 1.5 seconds which works simultaneously with your evade frames, has no energy cost and can be used twice in a row. I known which works better in a human vs human fight.

   I have no problems with the state in which Energy Meld is currently, and I don't thing buffing its numbers will make it more appealing unless they introduce a different mechanic (which ANet won't). I'm not opposed to changes the same way I don't oppose to changes in hammer since I woun't use it, but I'm against nerfs in traits which already have a a good  use. We have plenty of useless stuff already.

   You known how running Vassals of the Empire became the most used Vindi final trait at PvP/WvW roaming? At the beginning everyone did use the damage trait (Forerunner of Death) but they nerfed it to the extent it become useless, so then people moved to the healinh one (Saint of zu Heltzer), but then they nerfed the heals so the people got cornered to use the one not which they wanted to play but the less worse in a list of baddies: Vassals. The same happened with entire traitlines as Retribution and Devastation: make it bad enough until Salvation makes sense even for dps builds since at WvW/PvP Devastation is a joke, so at least you have some sustain. 

   There's a cognitive disonance in game design from ANet since in one hand they don't want people one shooting others but on the other they don't want tanks able to endure as in the bunker meta, so they did nerf both damage and sustain and at the end the meta is weird af since people at PvP and WvW run dps builds with strong self sutain traitlines (Defense Warrior, Salvation Revenent, etc. ) and the damage comes from landing 2-3 cc skills in a row to kland your burst and at the end the one shoots happens the same since they removed lots of stunbreakers.

[Buran.3796]

25 minutes ago, Warscythes.9307 said:

I would like to meet the people that never get hit by any hard cc in PvE just for playing well. 

  Then follow Roul's videos or Mela streaming since they oftenly solo dungeons, bounties and fractals with glass cannon builds and most of the time they have success.

[draxynnic.3719]

2 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

   

* Herald's "playstile" is currently something like this: you activate a skill with a heavy upkeep energy cost to provide quicknes to your partners, then you camp auto attack being careful to not use anything else to not mess the quickness uptime. Really exciting stuff.

 

As much as I don't like the quickherald rework either, this really isn't fair. You can spend 6 upkeep, use weapon skills, legend swap after ten seconds and repeat fairly comfortably. 

[Warscythes.9307]

32 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

  9.5 seconds on a 30 seconds cooldown which has an energy cost and has a cast time which can be interrupted vs 1.5 seconds which works simultaneously with your evade frames, has no energy cost and can be used twice in a row. I known which works better in a human vs human fight.

   I have no problems with the state in which Energy Meld is currently, and I don't thing buffing its numbers will make it more appealing unless they introduce a different mechanic (which ANet won't). I'm not opposed to changes the same way I don't oppose to changes in hammer since I woun't use it, but I'm against nerfs in traits which already have a a good  use. We have plenty of useless stuff already.

   You known how running Vassals of the Empire became the most used Vindi final trait at PvP/WvW roaming? At the beginning everyone did use the damage trait (Forerunner of Death) but they nerfed it to the extent it become useless, so then people moved to the healinh one (Saint of zu Heltzer), but then they nerfed the heals so the people got cornered to use the one not which they wanted to play but the less worse in a list of baddies: Vassals. The same happened with entire traitlines as Retribution and Devastation: make it bad enough until Salvation makes sense even for dps builds since at WvW/PvP Devastation is a joke, so at least you have some sustain. 

   There's a cognitive disonance in game design from ANet since in one hand they don't want people one shooting others but on the other they don't want tanks able to endure as in the bunker meta, so they did nerf both damage and sustain and at the end the meta is weird af since people at PvP and WvW run dps builds with strong self sutain traitlines (Defense Warrior, Salvation Revenent, etc. ) and the damage comes from landing 2-3 cc skills in a row to kland your burst and at the end the one shoots happens the same since they removed lots of stunbreakers.

I know there is a difference between the 2, I am going to go out on a limb and say I don't know which one will be better especially with the current numbers and I am willing to bet you don't as well especially because none of us know the numbers. Not to mention there are 2 other choices that doesn't seem completely terrible. This is something that needs to be tested than anything else. 

I have a problem with how energy meld is currently and you do as well. You just choose to ignore it which is just baffling to me. You recognize there is a problem as you stated numerous times before that how energy meld is uninteresting and vindicator as a whole has lost a lot of flavor. Instead of trying to suggest to fix it, you just choose to ignore it. It makes absolutely no sense and is why I cannot fathom where you are coming from. 

No I don't think everyone used the damage trait at the beginning for PvP/WvW. It was always heal or vassal because heal was busted as well as you can spam it and vassal gave protection and chills. The damage trait was the meme one. Vindicator as a whole was just overpowered right after they updated the the dodge from 1 to 2 and there are a lot of legacy problems because of the split. Nerfing everything made complete sense at the time, if you played any sort of PvP at all during that time then you will see how many vindicators there were. 

Also no they didn't remove a lot of stunbreaks, they increased the cd on a lot of the stunbreaks. Generally in most MMO pvp landing cc and burst is exactly how you kill people. Have you played WoW arena? A lot of the kills happen with baiting out trinket, cc and land your combo or cc the healer and burst down the dps whatnot. This really isn't something new.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Warscythes.9307