revenant patch update ☺️❤️

[Warscythes.9307]

27 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

  Then follow Roul's videos or Mela streaming since they oftenly solo dungeons, bounties and fractals with glass cannon builds and most of the time they have success.

Mate I solo dungeons and bounties too, haven't tried fractals so far. There is a difference between literally one person doing one activity and in a giant mob where you can't even see anything and you get hit by a stray cc out of nowhere. Generally though no this is not a PvE trait, is a PvP one.

[Buran.3796]

54 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Honestly don't see how it will dramatically affect PvE either cos if you are playing Revenant in Fractals or Strikes or Raids, especially as a DPS, you have people spilling Fury onto you. Unless you're trying to desperately do solo content, it won't be a huge hit.

  I do agree that the impact will be minimal, since outside Herald Vindi still has lots of access to fury; the more negatively impacted will be (again) the Renegade. And for solo content it won't be that important since the more powerful builds aren't based on power anyway.

   So yeah, is a small nerf, which coincidentally will buff some instanced builds, but won't be noticed by most of players, anyway. Let's call it a tie: another trait which you won't notice if gets ereased. 

[Buran.3796]

40 minutes ago, Warscythes.9307 said:

 Vindicator as a whole was just overpowered right after they updated the the dodge from 1 to 2 and there are a lot of legacy problems because of the split. Nerfing everything made complete sense at the time, if you played any sort of PvP at all during that time then you will see how many vindicators there were. 

Also no they didn't remove a lot of stunbreaks, they increased the cd on a lot of the stunbreaks. 

  I agree with that first part. I the same way that Renegade was NEVER a PvP spec (was released with the breakstun in the heal skill and the Kalla skills didn't work in like 60% of the surface of the PvP maps) despite buffs made it strong for a brief lapse untill regressed to mediocricy, Vindicator is a spec which I never liked in PvP since as with the Mechanist, due gameplay design was always cursed to be either too powerful or irrelevant. They alreday did the same mistake of messing with evades in the Daredevil and Mirage and it ended with DD being the only viable Thief for most of game existance and Mirage being so powerful that the nerf  removed the spec from PvP. So Vindicator was fated to either be brokenly op or a predictable bag of bugs in PvP. I'm totally fine of how is doing it now.

   But In WvW, where you have gear options, and sigils, runes which actually do things (and now also some relics) there was room for Vindi to work, and it currently does, and I'm worried about changes which could turn it in what Herald and Renegade are at roaming: functional but massively handicaped vs the current meta. About the last point: : they removed the breakstun at legend swap, so that casn't a "cooldown increase" at all.

@Warscythes.9307: You're right, Contained Temper is mostly a PvP trait. I was also wrong since as Yasai explained even in PvE the change won't have much impact.

[Terimac.5871]

I guess i wont be unlocking renegade now, i mean i only wanted to do it because i wanna use the shortbow piercing trait. So vindi and herald are the shortbow kings and queens now.

[Obtena.7952]

Decent.

The sad part is that it took the unlocking of another ranged weapon to all specs for Anet to finally realize how crap Hammer was.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Khlori.6209]

I'm happy for Shield buffs, kinda wish 5 would get mini rework, it gets interrupted by almost anything.

Also kitten, Anet really wants to see full dps Herald benching on Snowcrows with (I think) third Forceful Persistance buff in a row.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Khlori.6209

[arazoth.7290]

38 minutes ago, Khlori.6209 said:

I'm happy for Shield buffs, kinda wish 5 would get mini rework, it gets interrupted by almost anything.

Also kitten, Anet really wants to see full dps Herald benching on Snowcrows with (I think) third Forceful Persistance buff in a row.

shield interupted? It has same cast time on 4th skill as many other rev abilties which aren't a problem 🫤. And unblockables are a general counter for everyone using blocks, which is okay for counter.

[Khlori.6209]

Just now, arazoth.7290 said:

shield interupted? It has same cast time on 4th skill as many other rev abilties which aren't a problem 🫤. And unblockables are a general counter for everyone using blocks, which is okay for counter.

I'm talking about pve, I sometimes use it instead of dodging like a normal player and often end up with face on the ground. It's like block of this ability only negates damage and not cc.

Or maybe that's how block in this game is supposed to work and I don't know it.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Khlori.6209

[arazoth.7290]

3 minutes ago, Khlori.6209 said:

I'm talking about pve, I sometimes use it instead of dodging like a normal player and often end up with face on the ground. It's like block of this ability only negates damage and not cc.

Or maybe that's how block in this game is supposed to work and I don't know it.

Some pve enemies can have unblockable cc though yes. So I don't think this is the peoblem but rather the pve enemy being a D for classes their blocks 😅

[nosleepdemon.1368]

Except all of that is ruined by this:

 

• Song of Arboreum: This trait has been reworked. Energy Meld grants more energy and also grants its energy and vigor to nearby allies.

Energy meld is pants, it's another skill to remember to use, and it's now destroyed a really useful existing trait.

Edited October 28, 2023 by nosleepdemon.1368

[arazoth.7290]

15 minutes ago, nosleepdemon.1368 said:

Except all of that is ruined by this:

 

• Song of Arboreum: This trait has been reworked. Energy Meld grants more energy and also grants its energy and vigor to nearby allies.

Energy meld is pants, it's another skill to remember to use, and it's now destroyed a really useful existing trait.

Effectiveness probably stays the same + small buff, except you now can share instant endurance ontop. Have patience till you can test it live 😅.

Because mechanically it gives the same effect, if boon uptime is too low in pve/wvw content it will be buffed (pvp 6 second base is already fine).

[Jobber.6348]

6 hours ago, Khlori.6209 said:

I'm happy for Shield buffs, kinda wish 5 would get mini rework, it gets interrupted by almost anything.

Also kitten, Anet really wants to see full dps Herald benching on Snowcrows with (I think) third Forceful Persistance buff in a row.

Blocking blocks the damage and any related effects from an incoming attack. The only problem the Shield had was in competitive modes where Unblockables with CC from certain classes came flying. The most notorious one being Daredevil unblockable Steal daze has been stamped out, so there is nothing to fear anymore other than from Reapers but you're asking for death anyway if you are anywhere within hitting distance from a Reaper for extended periods of time. 

If you're a support tank or condi herald, you'd still find some use using Shield in competitive modes or versus rather tough fractal content but it's not bad at all in PvE.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Yasai.3549

[phokus.8934]

There are quite a few weapon abilities/utilities that are cc and unblockable.  Shield 5 just needs to have its root removed.

[arazoth.7290]

8 minutes ago, phokus.8934 said:

There are quite a few weapon abilities/utilities that are cc and unblockable.  Shield 5 just needs to have its root removed.

the radius shared healing is already 360 radius, which is big enough for not moving while you block and self heal too, strong enough bc of it

[draxynnic.3719]

12 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Decent.

The sad part is that it took the unlocking of another ranged weapon to all specs for Anet to finally realize how crap Hammer was.

They were probably sticking their heads in the sand thinking "it's still being used, it can't be that bad!"

And then heralds and vindicators who wanted to retain ranged capability were given an alternative and suddenly the metrics for revenant hammer use plummeted.

Better late than never, though!

[Sereath.1428]

As I said, very interesting update. Good effort so far.

However, personally I won't be using Hammer for WvW if:

1. Coalescence of Ruin still has pathing issues and still takes half a day to spread forward. And I only saw mention of moving where the damage area begins.
2. If it still has the current pitiful damage coefficient of 0.91.
   The sPvP version is still at 1.5 and its cooldown is going down as well. Good for the 1-2 revenant players in that game mode along with the other 23 players still there.
    

Otherwise, short bow forever.

But I do appreciate the attention to hammer, so many great skins for it.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Sereath.1428

[Eekasqueak.7850]

Might actually be able to get use out of hammer on my vindi

[phokus.8934]

8 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

the radius shared healing is already 360 radius, which is big enough for not moving while you block and self heal too, strong enough bc of it

You missed the point.  A rooted in place player is a target to be focused and essentially dead.  That's extremely bad for support and the healing output isn't going to amazing if using current numbers.

Pvp/wvw speaking.

[arazoth.7290]

10 minutes ago, phokus.8934 said:

You missed the point.  A rooted in place player is a target to be focused and essentially dead.  That's extremely bad for support and the healing output isn't going to amazing if using current numbers.

Pvp/wvw speaking.

never had problem with it during those. no offense but skill issue maybe?

[Buran.3796]

11 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Because mechanically it gives the same effect, if boon uptime is too low in pve/wvw content it will be buffed (pvp 6 second base is already fine).

   ...On a 30s cd. Versus getting a bit every time you evade (and Vindi evades more than a couple of times x minute, for sure!).

   Yesterday saw the American MAT hosted by Vallun. Only two Revs in the entire roster of the tournament (missed 20 minutes), a condi Herald and a power Vindi with Devastation and Invocation. That last one was in the Naru team, which won, but I wouldn't say that that makes Rev fine in PvP since the level of the #1 american team and everyone else in the continent is probably so large that any team comp won't matter much.

   I have no idea of how went in EU since Teapot didn't host (was busy showcasing World of Addons while bleeding audience), but I suspect no pressence of Rev (really the only one with minimal/no  presence).

 

   BIG EDIT: Now that I think, they changed the entire nature of the mid column of the Vindicator traitline: currently two of the traits are devoted to provide either extra raw endurance or vigor when we dodge, and the middle trait grants endurance while changing legents. With the 7th Nov patch, ALL the traits in that column are linked to Energy Meld: one trait to reduce the obnoxius cooldown (typical: they introduce the problem of "having" to use a bad skill, then they sell youthe "solution"); the second one acknowledges that F2 is useless, so gives energy when you press it and the third one grants endurance and vigor around when F2 is used.

   So we have now a entire colum of traits focused on a F key no one is using, which provides tasteless, unimpatcful effects, instead of being a column designed around the peculiar nature of the special dodge that Vindicator has. 

   WELL DONE. I swear that I'll run that trait slot empty if that is what we will get in a couple of weeks.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Buran.3796

[arazoth.7290]

34 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

   ...On a 30s cd. Versus getting a bit every time you evade (and Vindi evades more than a couple of times x minute, for sure!).

   Yesterday saw the American MAT hosted by Vallun. Only two Revs in the entire roster of the tournament (missed 20 minutes), a condi Herald and a power Vindi with Devastation and Invocation. That last one was in the Naru team, which won, but I wouldn't say that that makes Rev fine in PvP since the level of the #1 american team and everyone else in the continent is probably so large that any team comp won't matter much.

   I have no idea of how went in EU since Teapot didn't host (was busy showcasing World of Addons while bleeding audience), but I suspect no pressence of Rev (really the only one with minimal/no  presence).

 

   BIG EDIT: Now that I think, they changed the entire nature of the mid column of the Vindicator traitline: currently two of the traits are devoted to provide either extra raw endurance or vigor when we dodge, and the middle trait grants endurance while changing legents. With the 7th Nov patch, ALL the traits in that column are linked to Energy Meld: one trait to reduce the obnoxius cooldown (typical: they introduce the problem of "having" to use a bad skill, then they sell youthe "solution"); the second one acknowledges that F2 is useless, so gives energy when you press it and the third one grants endurance and vigor around when F2 is used.

   So we have now a entire colum of traits focused on a F key no one is using, which provides tasteless, unimpatcful effects, instead of being a column designed around the peculiar nature of the special dodge that Vindicator has. 

   WELL DONE. I swear that I'll run that trait slot empty if that is what we will get in a couple of weeks.

Numbers can be changed if underwhelming... which they buf 100% if needed... and same for Energy Meld cd... . It is about making F2 good by fusing both effects into 1 total stronger version. That way they can easier adapt traitlines around the F2 skill to make it usefull in rotation...

And it provides close the same mechanic "tastless"effects as a passive dodge which makes it. Which doesn't needs much thought put into except dodging.

updated traits: The first trait in that row lets you empower your dodge effects if used. Kind lf like I see it ssj2 for dodge. Most versatile 1 depending on which dodge trait selected

2nd trait focuses on increasing energy gain.

And 3rd made purely for support or some more sustain by gaining more dodge.

 

Previously all 3 versions were around endurance gaining. Because of this, the most endurance gain was chosen only and doesn't variety/spec identity. Now they give a good solution to solve for more identity how you play. You also will be able to have more trait variety for your playstyle by choosing 1 of those 3.

You're mostly sad about the numbers and aren't looking at what it gives mechanically in your rotation.

You wanted F2 to be usefull, now they merged dodge trait + F2 in 1 and both became better. I mean better in like mechanic of the ability working and it is easier to balance in different instance content. It will have in the future the correct numbers and F2 will feel satisfying using to boost you, allies or both.

If you don't see it yet, it's okay but you will. So it's okay for the doubts you have atm

[Buran.3796]

4 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

You're mostly sad about the numbers and aren't looking at what it gives mechanically in your rotation.

You wanted F2 to be usefull, 

It will have in the future the correct numbers and F2 will feel satisfying using to boost you, allies or both

If you don't see it yet, it's okay but you will. So it's okay for the doubts you have atm

 1) I'm not sad about numbers, I don't care about max dps otherwise I would have been playing Scourge.

 2) No I didn't wanted. I don't care about Energy Meld because unlike Citadel Bombardment or Full Counter or the Fireband tomes or the Dragonhunter and Willbender F skills the Vindicator F2 does nothing. Increasing your dps or your defense or you endurance or your energy pressing F2 is not not fun, is not rewarding, IS NOT A GAME MECHANIC at all. Renegade's short bow was a giant pile of crap until the game mechanics of Sevenshot were changed into something functional, NOT because they changed the numbers. And F2 will keep being an insipid , ignored button until the average playe sees that does something, which this patch won't achieve.

3) Numbers means nothing and I don't have allies. Bladesworn and Willbender are stronger than Berserker or Firebrand in numbers, but thay are more complex and tricky to play so unless you master them most of players will prefer run the later. And you're giving too much credit to me: I've succesfully ignored Ventari, Kalla and Kurzic all this time and I known that as is designed I won't touch Energy Meld even does a 100k AoE hit x push.

[arazoth.7290]

16 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

 1) I'm not sad about numbers, I don't care about max dps otherwise I would have been playing Scourge.

 2) No I didn't wanted. I don't care about Energy Meld because unlike Citadel Bombardment or Full Counter or the Fireband tomes or the Dragonhunter and Willbender F skills the Vindicator F2 does nothing. Increasing your dps or your defense or you endurance or your energy pressing F2 is not not fun, is not rewarding, IS NOT A GAME MECHANIC at all. Renegade's short bow was a giant pile of crap until the game mechanics of Sevenshot were changed into something functional, NOT because they changed the numbers. And F2 will keep being an insipid , ignored button until the average playe sees that does something, which this patch won't achieve.

3) Numbers means nothing and I don't have allies. Bladesworn and Willbender are stronger than Berserker or Firebrand in numbers, but thay are more complex and tricky to play so unless you master them most of players will prefer run the later. And you're giving too much credit to me: I've succesfully ignored Ventari, Kalla and Kurzic all this time and I known that as is designed I won't touch Energy Meld even does a 100k AoE hit x push.

Okay I am going to stop talking about it not being fun for you atm. But aside this, how haven't you touched kurzic when you did play vindicator ?!

[Buran.3796]

21 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Okay I am going to stop talking about it not being fun for you atm. But aside this, how haven't you touched kurzic when you did play vindicator ?!

    Mostly ignoring the F3. You'll need it sometimes in WvW, but rarely in PvE.

[Angesombre.4630]

• Song of Arboreum: This trait has been reworked. Energy Meld grants more energy and also grants its energy and vigor to nearby allies.

It's the nerve of these skills, if you look at the vigor, we're going from 62% regeneration to 50%. But the F2 has a CD of 20s with a 10 energy hit, so it's bound to be a loss of both DPS and heal. Instead of having a slightly better regen, we'll have to wait 20 seconds.
For me, the f2 is a very useless accessory, so we're nerfing a good line for something mediocre.
After that, the shield is better, but you still can't move with the 5.
I'm waiting for the next nerf of the short bow, which will be too strong afterwards...

Edited October 30, 2023 by Angesombre.4630