Should you use Hammer or not? (At least in PvP)

[Shao.7236]

Hi, I've basically used this weapon in it's trash state ever since it was changed 3 years and I just want to say, if you are confused about how it's supposed to be the technically good weapon that I constantly claimed for all this time and to be sorta busted the moment the changes are released, feel free to nudge or ask what can be considered fundamentals because this weapon is EXTREMELY quirky and does not play nice with mistakes, if you are not the type to constantly (not joking, we're talking bottom barrel scrapping) attempt at giving the best value in the skills in big bulks, Hammer playstyle is not for you.

At the very basics, it's a weapon that requires way more patience than what you'd find the others to do for a pay off but that plays in favor of Revenant energy mechanic to use costly skills more often because Hammer skills are cheap and you never have to use any utility as often since you're away from danger, which is why there is a immense value in condensed teamfights.

As a Core player, I get to use RotGD/Jade Winds a lot while the ability to hurt multiple targets at once is not something you usually get from Revenant, that really helps a team out in attacking and sustaining.

The newer changes will be a big deal because placement was extremely jank to burst anyone, now it's easier than ever as a sidenoder to fight on point rather than having to plan your positioning more than you already had to. The changes to Field of the Mists will likely be good as a counter to blinds/Aegis even though to remind Hammer is a heavy single hit which plays well with unblockables.

Regardless, there hasn't been much of anything that I couldn't do with this build that I have for it's versatility and I'd recommend who really enjoy Rev to give it a shot.

There's seriously a lot of funny yet already effective things available before this patch and more will come from it.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

The biggest buff is that CoR fix. The main reason most serious players do not run Hammer is because everyone in 1600+ knows how to exploit the fact that CoR is bugged. With this fake-downside finally removed, it may get seen as a viable defensive alternative to shortbow.

[arazoth.7290]

Hammer will be used more, though it requires some more effort then the other weapons which is not everyone playstyle. I love hammer, my favorite weapon for revenant. I already had lot of fun with it, it will only be better now. The COR change will make it now easier to land in close combat, without requiring a small repositioning like I had to land it. Also hint to everyone,  use drop of the hammer cc with quickness or to keep an already ccd target longer down.

Field of the mists will require some more skill useage now since it also does some damage and grants self aegis. Will you use it now for some extra damage/defense same time or waiting for more projectile denial. More decision making for what you want to use it. Which will affect faster kills or might kill yourself if wrongly used. 

Hammer will be even more interesting to use then before and more available in general ☺️

[Gazrul.3086]

Well, hammer is already meta in wvw for zergs, and this will make it even better. 

[Shao.7236]

5 hours ago, Chronardis.4028 said:

Well, hammer is already meta in wvw for zergs, and this will make it even better. 

For 1v1 encounters definitely. Hammer was always good in WvW because you can fire and forget CoR in a mob and the last hit was easier to manage than in PvP where there's not a lot of map where you could make use it of. Foefire was the last one I remember landing 16ks on light armored but even that was stupidly hard to try.

8 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Hammer will be used more, though it requires some more effort then the other weapons which is not everyone playstyle. 

It is a heavy slow hitter that pays off, afaik not often thought to be good because players think it's easy to dodge but thats where the skill ceiling comes from, figuring out when dodging is no longer the option.

That goes with a lot of weapons but this one quite in particular.

12 hours ago, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

The biggest buff is that CoR fix. The main reason most serious players do not run Hammer is because everyone in 1600+ knows how to exploit the fact that CoR is bugged. With this fake-downside finally removed, it may get seen as a viable defensive alternative to shortbow.

Even if people didn't know about it, FE had 600 range a bit ago and that made landing CoR with it a very delicate task. Overall still, just being up in your face which is a normal thing to do would just pay off the opponent.

I'd argue that Hammer is superior to Shortbow in everyway just because it has very high projectile hate and that's not counting in with Dome of the Mists. Fact they built in piercing in Shortbow does make it a bit better but generally still utility wise, you can't depend on Shortbow like you can with Hammer. I've literally never lost against one and anything that is ranged usually I win those encounters hands down simply for having Field of the Mists.

[Sereath.1428]

Yeah maybe in sPvP, like you said, because I'm very sure they will retain all the CoR and Phase Smash nerfs for WvW. Unfortunate.
The animations are atrociously slow for 0.91 and 1.0 coefficients.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Sereath.1428

[Buran.3796]

21 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

   I'd argue that Hammer is superior to Shortbow in everyway just because it has very high projectile hate and that's not counting in with Dome of the Mists. Fact they built in piercing in Shortbow does make it a bit better but generally still utility wise, you can't depend on Shortbow like you can with Hammer. I've literally never lost against one and anything that is ranged usually I win those encounters hands down simply for having Field of the Mists.

  Last few times I faced Auramancers and Scrappers in WvW they also though that a Vindi with short bow would be a easy meal, only to find out that reflecting and blocking projectiles doesn't work vs Scorchrazer, Spiritcrush, Scavenger Burst or Jade Winds, not to mention Eternity's Requiem. Short bow biggest advantage vs hammer is not the better dps (both sustained or in burst) but havings kills with functional cast times which allows to land both cc and damage...

[Shagie.7612]

hope the change to CoR also helps its pathing
feels pretty bad when the skill flips out on various types of terrain

i also think the change to the 4 skill is kinda weird in that you continue mashing the key to throw out the projectiles that are seemingly the same as hammer 1?

glad it's getting changes though

[phokus.8934]

1 hour ago, Shagie.7612 said:

hope the change to CoR also helps its pathing
feels pretty bad when the skill flips out on various types of terrain

i also think the change to the 4 skill is kinda weird in that you continue mashing the key to throw out the projectiles that are seemingly the same as hammer 1?

glad it's getting changes though

They really should've just reverted CoR back to its original design.  Changing to what it is today was a top 5 boneheaded design move by them.

[arazoth.7290]

1 hour ago, Shagie.7612 said:

hope the change to CoR also helps its pathing
feels pretty bad when the skill flips out on various types of terrain

i also think the change to the 4 skill is kinda weird in that you continue mashing the key to throw out the projectiles that are seemingly the same as hammer 1?

glad it's getting changes though

It's only 1 press. The devs put cd off to show how it looked, that's why you think it's spammable, which isn't.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

2 hours ago, phokus.8934 said:

They really should've just reverted CoR back to its original design.  Changing to what it is today was a top 5 boneheaded design move by them.

One million times always this. Been saying this since they changed it *sigh*

[ArthurDent.9538]

Funny fact: this will be the first time hammer has ever been buffed in pvp despite having never having seen significant meta usage. Probably the only weapon across all classes to be so neglected for so long.

[Avatar.3568]

59 minutes ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

Funny fact: this will be the first time hammer has ever been buffed in pvp despite having never having seen significant meta usage. Probably the only weapon across all classes to be so neglected for so long.

what about necro dagger, i believe since hot release its trash

[ArthurDent.9538]

26 minutes ago, Avatar.3568 said:

what about necro dagger, i believe since hot release its trash

If you check version history for the individual skills for necro dagger (mainhand and offhand) you can see numerous pvp buffs to most of the skills at various points in time. Additionally I do recall dagger mainhand being used on various bunker necro builds that have shown up in the meta on rare occasion while offhamd dagger has been a staple for condi builds (at least before torch was available to non scourge necro). None of that can be said for revenant hammer.

[Sarlan.7682]

kinda necroing this post...been trying hammer after the recent patch and while i dont think its a good pick in every match or meta for ats..it slaps hard and is actually fun to play now. would def recommend trying it out. be aware though that you have to activate instant cast instead of fast with range and enable retargeting since this enables some mindgames and repositioning with and of hammer 2 and 5.  its the worst weapon ever!

Edited December 15, 2023 by Sarlan.7682

[arazoth.7290]

21 minutes ago, Sarlan.7682 said:

kinda necroing this post...been trying hammer after the recent patch and while i dont think its a good pick in every match or meta for ats..it slaps hard and is actually fun to play now. would def recommend trying it out. be aware though that you have to activate instant cast instead of fast with range and enable retargeting since this enables some mindgames and repositioning with and of hammer 2 and 5.

🤫

[Buran.3796]

  I think that I finished my mest with WvW hammer:  is just a worse short bow. Very little damage even in extreme glass cannon builds, ultra-slow casting abilities and surprised about aegis lasting so little thst is like doesn't exist. So it can root in the scrapbag along the shield, staff and the scepter, imo. Don't plan to touch it again.

[Sarlan.7682]

 

4 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

  I think that I finished my mest with WvW hammer:  is just a worse short bow. Very little damage even in extreme glass cannon builds, ultra-slow casting abilities and surprised about aegis lasting so little thst is like doesn't exist. So it can root in the scrapbag along the shield, staff and the scepter, imo. Don't plan to touch it again.

yeah its overnerfed in wvw....deals basically double the dmg with less stats in pvp

[arazoth.7290]

for pvp it's fine, WvW it might need some coëfficiënt buff, didn't test damage yet in pve

[Buran.3796]

  I would argue that in PvP doesn't matter since Rev is not meta there and no Rev reached the semis in the past weekend MAT (EU). So is not like we lose anything...

[Eddie.9143]

no

[Jobber.6348]

I have to admire Shao for sticking to Hammer so fiercely but honestly I feel like Hammer is just not keeping up with the rest of the sandbox. CoR's rippling isn't even remotely interesting or good anymore in the current sandbox and I have been using Mace alot, with Mace 3 essentially being a bootleg CoR but more consistent and has TWO CHARGES in competitive modes. 

I'm not kidding, WvW CoR coefficient and Echoing Eruption coefficient are the same but Mace 3 has two charges on an 8s cooldown with 1s recast cooldown.(actually CoR in WvW has slightly lower power scaling than Echoing Eruption) 

At this point, the only thing that'll really get me excited about hammer is finally a rework or mini rework to the poor thing. 

 

[arazoth.7290]

pvp it's more then fine and is keeping up in there.

But for WvW the damage is little weak, just buff coëfficiënts in there and same 3 sec cc duration for hammer in WvW too !

Edited December 31, 2023 by arazoth.7290

[Buran.3796]

On 12/25/2023 at 4:13 PM, arazoth.7290 said:

pvp it's more then fine and is keeping up in there.

  I wasn't one of voters with a confused emoji but I can't agree. Last EU MAT showcased 0 Rev builds in the semis and that means that of 4 teams with 5 character slots (20 in total), and we have only 27 specs (36 if you count core, and arguably some core professions as Guard are meta). So out of 36 choices no one picked a core Rev, Herald, Renegade or Vindicator, and has been this way for a while in most of the semis at MATs since EoD.

   Meanwhile we saw some MATs at which the winner team stacked 5 Ele builds; is not the case anymore but is a testament of how much the designer team cares about PvP balance (hint: nothing). I think that at the balance showcases you can see in the eyes of the developers how much they struggle to even care about some of the professions...  CMC, which clearly doesn't play Rev, has been in a streak of condi Rev buffs and nerf to everything else which lead to absolutely no use of condi Rev in MATs and power builds unable to reach semis.

   BUT i recognize that "PvP is fine", but mostly because I no longer care which performance I get with the choices I make.

[arazoth.7290]

That's because hammer still has a stigma and needs some time to get used, which a lot don't have. But after playing with it some time and after the buffs, I can attest it's pretty good for pvp.

Hammer probably will only get used until it becomes easier to use and has a lower skill cap in general.

And if gets buffed even more till op status then people reroll like a herd of sheep to some fotm like usual.

In short: Hammer has become little bit more straightforward with damage and same time increased some skill cap even more. So it's a harder weapon to get used to, but once you do you don't want to go back.

The only buff hammer could potentially use for auto attack to make it really complete in all content mechanic wise... => 1 sec cast time to 0,75sec cast time. And auto projectile speed increased by 25-30%

Hammer will still be little bit slower to cast to have that hammer feeling, but it's just little smoother. 0,5 second cast time and even faster projectile speed, would be too much and not hammer like (riffle like rather ).