Change skill2 Immobilize to Cripple on S/D thief

[babazhook.6805]

@ZhouX.8742 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:Any Immob break will get you out of the Caltrops field. It not hard to do. I get immobed in a trap set by a ranger. Does this mean Immob should be removed from rangers?

IMMOB always existed on s/d. Uncatchable has always been there. Impaling louus has been there since the release of HOT. Why is it only an issue now?

What's the cooldown on immob breaks vs the amount of times a thief can immob you?

The fix to this build is to either increase the initiative cost of sword 2 or to nerf the condi application of the build.

All thieves could always spam a skill . The IMMOB on Sword existed from day 1. Thief could always stack immobs. A thief using sword to immob can do so three times for 15 ini. Just as with any other skill they spam once that INI can they can do nothing else with their weaponset outside AA.

Your argument is no different then the one against PI or a thief spamming Vault BOTH OF WHICH will do more damage then will immob with 2 stacks of poison.

To that ranger. The ranger will use his Immob and then use Rapidfire along with pet againt the immobed target. This will do exponentially more damage then 6 stacks of poison even if that poison ran its duration. Your fixes are simply unsupportable as it just breaks the s/d set. The FIX is take condition clears and learn how to play against the build. The ranger also has multiple sources of Immob. These tend to last longer then the s/d source.

You can block and dodge infiltrators. Block one, break the Immob on another and if the third gets through (thief now out of ini) you just forced the thief to burn off 15 ini in return for two poison stacks. You are not helpless. It is not required you block or break every attempt the thief makes at an immob. All you need to do is ensure SOME of those attempts fail so INI wasted.

ALL OTHER CONDITION applications the people here keep complaining about have nothing to do with S/d. I can do the exact same thing on d/p. Spam interrupt with Pressure strike traited and I get 2 torment for every headshot.

In about 4 days time the steal for the DE thief will be able to apply conditions against most every build. This can be doubled up with the use of IMPROV along with steal reset which means even MORE condition applications possible then this 6 stacks of poison for 15 ini adds. If people refuse to learn how to cleanse or deal with these builds they will be in worse shape.

Are you really comparing a 15-20 second ICD immob on ranger trait to thief sword 2?

Second, projectile denial exists

Stop defending this broken kitten

First a ranger has multiple sources of Immob. Second Immob on s/x always existed. Third NO CONDITION damage was added to sword. It was added to a trait meaning in order to take advantage of it a thief must use two seperate traits.

This is like me claiming that more Bleeds added to warrior sword because the warrior takes bloodlust or that confusionw as added to hammer. BTW that warrior will get more bleeds just using his AA on sword then the thief will get spending 5 ini for 2 poison.

To your projectile denial . What is your point? A person can BLOCK infiltrators. They can dodge impaling. They do not need to stand in AOE circles. They can drop AOE at their feet. They can drop traps at their feet all of which counter the s/d thief. That same ranger can also be a trap ranger and do a heck a lot more damage with an immob and trap drop then 2 stacks of poison can do. Whats projectile denial going to accomplish?

The spec is easy to counter. Stop calling for nerfs to builds just because you are unable to deal with them.

I detailed how you can minimize the damage done by that port in and out and you come up with "projectile denial exists" ?

[lLobo.7960]

Reducing the poison application will impact the PvE condi thief.Removing the imob will impact every other sword build.

Make it so that for panic strike to trigger poison the immob needs to be on critical hit. Then to keep the same condi burst they have now thiefs would have to gear glassy (sinister or viper) and the build would have more counter-play and require more skill to be efficient.

[Razor.6392]

No one uses panic strike in pve.

[Kuya.6495]

Sounds like a larger icd on panic strike is the most sensible option. Should be a pvp only change though.

[lLobo.7960]

@Kuya.6495 said:Sounds like a larger icd on panic strike is the most sensible option. Should be a pvp only change though.

Disagree, it would just kill the build all out.By placing a crit hit requirement, you provide the build with a high-risk/reward treatment, by keeping the high condi burst if you gear for full dmg, but providing lower condi application for the current more tanky (carion ammy) setup.

[Razor.6392]

Poison needs to be removed from panic strike. Sword needs to be undesirable for condi thief. It's not a condi weapon.

They can go back to dagger. Even DB spam had more counterplay than this garbage lol.

[Zenith.7301]

Agree, S/D is not a condi weaponset. Correct the aberration.

D/D+P/D are condi sets, keep condi play there. Sword is a power weapon.

[saerni.2584]

Condi thief has always been more utility and trait oriented.

D/D, P/D and Shortbow are condition oriented weapons. However, what makes them viable as condition weapons is a combination of traits and utilities.

S/D condition builds are viable because the Infiltrator's Strike port was buffed and because of the additional trait synergy with poison/immobilize to a lesser extent. (As has been pointed out that adds at most 6 poison and isn't really the source of the complaints). Essentially, S/D condition became viable at the same time S/D power became viable (adding in more power damage potential and unblockable attacks to the set).

S/D isn't a "power only" set. It is now a viable set in both power and condition variations. The confusion comes from people who don't understand where condition thieves get the bulk of their damage from.

[Link.1049]

@Crinn.7864 said:The immobilize on sword2 is the crux that makes condi s/d so strong. It's not just that it procs Panic Strikes, but also that the immobilize means that the target can't get out of the caltrops field created when the thief dodges, not mention prevents them from dodging the condis applied by lotus dodge.

If you take away the poison on the immobilize... you make this build unviable. There are a lot of skills and traits that clear conditions, trick is that people tend to pop their clear the second they see the first stack on them before the thief has even dodged. Keep in mind they can't keep it up if they just spam it constantly... 1 it's a good way to be punched in the throat... and 2 they don't have unlimited initiative. Playing this build...it's INCREDIBLY easy to counter it...with any class. Message me a class and I'll tell you how to counter. First step is get over the initial panic of omg it's a thief with a sword and shadowstep. :)

[Raiden The Beast.3016]

@witcher.3197 said:Condi S/D thief became viable after Anet buffed Panic Strikes to apply poison on immob, a buff probably intended for P/D thief which also has a spammable Immobilize on skill2. Condi S/D becoming the monster of soloQ is likely an unintended side effect.

S/D recieved several buffs since then and I think it can survive some tweaking. Changing Immobilize to Cripple on Infiltrator's Strike could make Pistol mainhand more unique while not hurting power S/D too much and putting an end to a 2 button spam build (while still retaining some viability).

LOL NO