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Icebrood Saga Ogre origin?


Lord Korag.8439

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https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mini_Icebrood_Saga_Ogre

Recently I saw this on some Twich drops or something again, and it has reminded me, that durning the entire Icebrood Saga content I have never encountered any Icebrood enemy usint this model. How much is this one intended to be connected to the IBS lore, as it is directly named after it? And why is it so oddly purple colored? Was it supposed to point out that Jormag has absorbed a part of Kralkatorrik´s magic spectrum? Or is it just a simple recoloration for the marketing purposes? If so, should it be recolored in black-orange and named like a Icebrood Saga Destroyer Ogre or something, it would offer much more sense for the IBS for me.

Technically, it is just a recoloration of the Icebrood Ogre from the Bitterfrost Frontier storyline, but that one was connected to the magic merging lore. What origin, if any, has this abomation, I can only wonder...

Edit: I have realized these new colors are also exactly the inverted original pink/green ones.

Edited by Lord Korag.8439
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2 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Icebrood Ogres use the same model as Icebrood goliaths

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Icebrood_Goliath

And they do show up in IBS in certain areas.

The shape of this Icebrood was used since the launch. And not just Icebrood, even the Branded: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Branded_Ogre

The problematic I was pointing at was mainly the purple coloration. Nowhere else to be seen.

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It's a recolour of the Mini Icebrood Ogre from Season 3, which is actually a miniature of the Champion Unstable Abomination from A Crack in the Ice.

That doesn't explain why they're called ogres when the Icebrood Goliaths and the Unstable Abomination are Icebrood norn that have been even further corrupted. I suspect the real-life reason is their design is based on ogres and somewhere in the games files they're called that and it wasn't corrected when the names were finalised, so when someone made the minis they got the wrong name. But that doesn't work as an in-game explaination.

But there are minis of things which don't exist in the game in any other form. Lots of the Halloween ones for example: Gwynefyrdd, Zuzu the Cat of Darkness, the Spooky Moa, Husk-o-lantern, and many more aren't miniatures of existing things, they're unique designs. Even the chainsaw skeleton is different, dual-wielding one-handed chainsaws instead of using one two-handed one.

There is sort-of justification for all this though, buried in odd bits of lore. All miniatures are basically tiny golems (or magical construction of some form), kind of like Tixx's Winterday toys. So although they're usually based on real things the only limit to how they look is the crafter's imagination. Maybe there are icebrood ogres somewhere and we just have't met them yet. Or maybe by the time reports of the Unstable Abomination got back to a sculptor it was being described as an ogre.

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3 hours ago, Lord Korag.8439 said:

This is very interesting suggestion. Sadly, it would mean the recolor serves only for the marketing purposes.

Well it is a promotional item that's only ever been available via codes obtained outside the game, so yes it probably was created for marketing purposes.

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It’s supposed to represent the time when leyline magic was unstable. We were killing elder dragons and their absorbed magic was released. Because of the death of some dragons, the remaining ones encountered leyline magic spectra that would have been filtered out by the now dead dragons. Then, the elder dragons were not used to eating this type of magic and, as a result, were inexperienced with using it. That’s when we started seeing the death-branded shatterer, vine-touched destroyers, death-touched destroyers, et cetera.  The dragons later became more experienced with utilizing the magic and we stopped seeing the hybrids. 
 

The mini you’re referring to was an example of an icebrood infused with shatterer spectrum leyline magic. It never appeared in game as a full monster but was a promotional give-away in partnership with Quiznos subs for a limited time probably a few years ago now at this point. 
 

hope that helps. 

Edited by Tom.8029
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On 11/4/2023 at 2:12 PM, Lord Korag.8439 said:

This is very interesting suggestion. Sadly, it would mean the recolor serves only for the marketing purposes.

Given the name and means of release, it's definitely only for marketing purposes and doesn't reflect any lore at the time.

3 hours ago, Tom.8029 said:

It’s supposed to represent the time when leyline magic was unstable. We were killing elder dragons and their absorbed magic was released. Because of the death of some dragons, the remaining ones encountered leyline magic spectra that would have been filtered out by the now dead dragons. Then, the elder dragons were not used to eating this type of magic and, as a result, were inexperienced with using it. That’s when we started seeing the death-branded shatterer, vine-touched destroyers, death-touched destroyers, et cetera.  The dragons later became more experienced with utilizing the magic and we stopped seeing the hybrids. 
 

The mini you’re referring to was an example of an icebrood infused with shatterer spectrum leyline magic. It never appeared in game as a full monster but was a promotional give-away in partnership with Quiznos subs for a limited time probably a few years ago now at this point. 
 

hope that helps. 

Not quite true.

There's no real evidence that Jormag was empowered by Kralkatorrik's death, and EoD establishes that Soo-Woe never got any Kralk magic from his death because Aurene took it all in when she ascended as an Elder Dragon (hence why Ankka needed to use the extractor on Aurene then on Soo-Woe to unleash Void). This is further supported by how there are no Crystal-Infused Icebrood or Destroyers in IBS. Jormag was also established as being much more careful about mixing magic in IBS, which is why we don't see any Death-Infused or Plant-Infused icebrood beyond the one in LWS3, and why Jormag was more coherent than Primordus or Kralkatorrik - less effected by Torment / conflicting magics.

Edited by Konig Des Todes.2086
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20 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Given the name and means of release, it's definitely only for marketing purposes and doesn't reflect any lore at the time.

Not quite true.

There's no real evidence that Jormag was empowered by Kralkatorrik's death, and EoD establishes that Soo-Woe never got any Kralk magic from his death because Aurene took it all in when she ascended as an Elder Dragon (hence why Ankka needed to use the extractor on Aurene then on Soo-Woe to unleash Void). This is further supported by how there are no Crystal-Infused Icebrood or Destroyers in IBS. Jormag was also established as being much more careful about mixing magic in IBS, which is why we don't see any Death-Infused or Plant-Infused icebrood beyond the one in LWS3, and why Jormag was more coherent than Primordus or Kralkatorrik - less effected by Torment / conflicting magics.

What about people getting frozen in DRMs and people saying that this ice is special for being indestructible? 

Maybe I remember incorrectly but wasn't the speculation that this was a Ice/Crystal magic combo? 

In lake doric for example. 

Again, could remember wrong. 

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Just now, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

What about people getting frozen in DRMs and people saying that this ice is special for being indestructible? 

Maybe I remember incorrectly but wasn't the speculation that this was a Ice/Crystal magic combo? 

In lake doric for example. 

Again, could remember wrong. 

It is called corrupted magic by Aurene but it's never established to be a Ice/Crystal combo. People have theorized this, same with the "feedback loop" from destroyers that gets discovered, but either because it isn't or because Champions was just poorly finished, it's never actually said to be Kralk's magic involved.

The only magic Jormag is confirmed to have gotten is Zhaitan's, Mordremoth's, Balthazar's, and the Lost Spirits' - and even then, the first two were (by all indication) small amounts, either due to distance or Jormag's precaution.

It is worth noting that the Frozen is when Jormag begins to lose their mental stability, which pairs with it being conflicting magic. We just don't ever get confirmation which kind of conflicting magic - but that's the beginning use of it for Jormag, not some promotional icebrood never presented in-game.

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2 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

...Aurene took it all in when she ascended as an Elder Dragon (hence why Ankka needed to use the extractor on Aurene then on Soo-Woe to unleash Void). This is further supported by how there are no Crystal-Infused Icebrood or Destroyers in IBS.

This is very interesting sugestion, given Aurene is then adressed as the Elder Dragon of Crystal and Light, and Kralkatorrik basically handled her his magic (very easy to do when that being is literally inside of you next to your heart = possible centre of your magic 😄). Soo-Won, to some degree at least, seemed hesitant in consuming other dragon spectrums in general (can´t blame her, given she created the others especially to handle with those), on the other hand, in the Dragonstorm finale Aurene states the magic went "south", even in her presence.

However as you stated:

2 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

People have theorized this, same with the "feedback loop" from destroyers that gets discovered

If I remeber correctly this was to some point really even stated by Taimy as the ability originating from Kralkatorrik being used by Primordus to strenghten the loop connection he has with his Destroyers. That would naturally mean that some, at least very minimal, part of Kralkatorrik magic went loose too.

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6 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Given the name and means of release, it's definitely only for marketing purposes and doesn't reflect any lore at the time.

Not quite true.

There's no real evidence that Jormag was empowered by Kralkatorrik's death, and EoD establishes that Soo-Woe never got any Kralk magic from his death because Aurene took it all in when she ascended as an Elder Dragon (hence why Ankka needed to use the extractor on Aurene then on Soo-Woe to unleash Void). This is further supported by how there are no Crystal-Infused Icebrood or Destroyers in IBS. Jormag was also established as being much more careful about mixing magic in IBS, which is why we don't see any Death-Infused or Plant-Infused icebrood beyond the one in LWS3, and why Jormag was more coherent than Primordus or Kralkatorrik - less effected by Torment / conflicting magics.

I said the enemy never appeared in game, which would suggest the developers felt it was out of place and decided not to use it. But the model is obviously a combination of icebrood and branded spectra leyline magic.  

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On 11/7/2023 at 11:57 AM, Lord Korag.8439 said:

If I remeber correctly this was to some point really even stated by Taimy as the ability originating from Kralkatorrik being used by Primordus to strenghten the loop connection he has with his Destroyers. That would naturally mean that some, at least very minimal, part of Kralkatorrik magic went loose too.

Close but not quite, the dialogue is:

Taimi: That link we discovered between the destroyers and Primordus? A feedback loop, amplified by Kralk's death.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jormag's_World

The feedback loop is amplified by Kralk's death, the word choice indicates that it was pre-existing, but made stronger.

Is it possible to have come from Kralk's magic? Certainly. Is it confirmed? No. The wording leans more towards it pre-existing and just made stronger, like Drakkar got stronger when Kralk was killed, but notably Drakkar lacks anything related to crystals or fury/lightning.

It's worth noting however, that when Aurene and the Commander fought Kralkatorrik, they actively expelled Zhaitan's, Mordremoth's, and Balthazar's magic. Aurene didn't absorb it - so it likely got released into the wild. Which means that there would be power boosts to the other Elder Dragons without it involving Kralkatorrik's spectrum.

Objective: Sever the threads of magic.

Kralkatorrik: Remove this impure magic from me.

I defeated the manifestations of the foreign magics and vanquished the enraged aspects of Kralkatorrik. 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Descent

No indication that Aurene ever absorbed that magic, just removing, severing, vanquishing as the verbs used. So Jormag and Primordus could have simply gotten a big heaping of more Zhaitan, Mordremoth, and Balthazar magic. And we know Jormag got some Balthazar magic as that's how they just vanish from the inside of the Frost Citadel and appear out of nowhere in Dragonstorm (as well as all the new portals the Frost Legion can open up out of nowhere). 

On 11/7/2023 at 2:45 PM, Tom.8029 said:

I said the enemy never appeared in game, which would suggest the developers felt it was out of place and decided not to use it. But the model is obviously a combination of icebrood and branded spectra leyline magic.  

How greatly different the frost / snow part looks makes me disagree. While I do see the "purple branded" idea, it's a completely different purple color and the deep blue snow covering and name makes it pretty apparent that it's reflecting the red and blue logo to me, but coloration was off.

So it "obviously" isn't a combination of icebrood and branded spectra leyline magic if there is an equally, if not arguably more, compelling reason for it. Until devs come in and confirm though, it's speculative either way.

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