Power Herald loses every melee matchup in sPvP

[Eddie.9143]

Power Herald loses to fire weaver, condi zerk, bs, power zerk, spb, willbender, untamed, power reaper, hammer cata, d/d tempest, d/p, vindi...basically everything.

it has kitten poor condi removal, stuns AND stun breaks require you to use all your energy leaving you offensively stunted. OR just jade winds and swap right after leaving you stuck in a legend for 9 seconds. 

you're forced into shield AND shield trait to handle condis.

assassin stance heal is dog

sword 3 mega clunky

shacking wave 1 second cast time why??

0 condi removal baked into dragon stance, 0 condi for dragon stance through traits either. just REKT by condi while in d stance

only stun break in d-stance requires a double press, and only breaks a stun on the 2nd press. 

burst of strength no condi removal

have to decide between traiting for stability on stun breaks or removing ONE condi when swapping legends. wow some choices. 

neither heal has condi removal

at the same time, harder to play than other classes, and much less forgiving. 

*********************

I think vindi is in a much better place with better heals, utility, damage, and condi removal, also some nice long ranged damage. vindi hard af to play well, though. 

 

 

[arazoth.7290]

power Herald is more of a roamer +1, fast in and out. So it isn't duelist/brawler material in power. Try condi instead, then you have enough cleanses and more sustain for your 1v1's

[Buran.3796]

18 hours ago, Eddie.9143 said:

Power Herald loses to fire weaver, condi zerk, bs, power zerk, spb, willbender, untamed, power reaper, hammer cata, d/d tempest, d/p, vindi...basically everything.

it has kitten poor condi removal, stuns AND stun breaks require you to use all your energy leaving you offensively stunted. OR just jade winds and swap right after leaving you stuck in a legend for 9 seconds. 

only stun break in d-stance requires a double press, and only breaks a stun on the 2nd press. 

*********************

I think vindi is in a much better place with better heals, utility, damage, and condi removal, also some nice long ranged damage. vindi hard af to play well, though. 

 

 

  This evening I just ended the  qualifying matches for the Conquest Season; I did it playing just Willbender and ended with 6/4 w/l at low tier 3 gold, which  my usual. In those ten matches I saw 0 core Revs, 0 Renegades, 1 Vindicator and two Heralds; the two later were way better than me and defeat my WB in both teamfights and 1 v1 (one was in tag with a support core Guardian and they were very good at enduring any kind of fight). So, in 100 slots Rev fill 4, but didn't seem to me that Herald was any worse that the other Rev specs (anecdotally, but that was my impression).

   Is Herald out of the meta? Yes, but also Renegade and Vindicator, so nothing special in that regard. Is Gaze of Darkness a bad stunbreak? No, because usually (at least me in the past) you run Glint with Fazet of Darkness active to get permafury, and is a instant cast wich breaks stun and blinds,  inflicts 10 stacks of vulnerability and reveals in 600 inch radius, so is full of procs at 0 energy cost and with a 15s cooldown.

  I'm not that sure about Herald losing to WB tho, Guardian has the worst heals in the game at the moment. WB has its own problems: huge burst but really squishy. None of them are meta.

   Edit: just play something else.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Buran.3796

[Shao.7236]

You want to have the utility and sustain to duel? Play with Jalis, that's how the class is designed whether you like it or not and thats never going to change.

Shiro/Glint is a roamer glass and only good at hit and run, always was, always will be.

[Jobber.6348]

On 11/5/2023 at 6:19 AM, Eddie.9143 said:

you're forced into shield AND shield trait to handle condis.

Already your first mistake: If you wanted to play Herald effectively as a duelist on a node, you don't want Shield, you want to kill as fast as possible. 

On 11/5/2023 at 6:19 AM, Eddie.9143 said:

assassin stance heal is dog

You're supposed to use it together with Sword 3. Now if Sword 3 bugs out, welcome to the club where we complain to Anet about how many buggy skills Revenant has. 

On 11/5/2023 at 6:19 AM, Eddie.9143 said:

shacking wave 1 second cast time why??

Overhanded nerf imo since they already nerfed sPvP's PT, this shouldn't really need such a long cast time anymore. 

On 11/5/2023 at 6:19 AM, Eddie.9143 said:

0 condi removal baked into dragon stance, 0 condi for dragon stance through traits either. just REKT by condi while in d stance

Your Condi counter option is Infuse Light. It's literally the most powerful counter to Condis because it turns their 6k ticks into 6k heals. You use Infuse Light as you are retreating of course and use Staff 4 to clean out the remaining Condis. You've essentially reset yourself this way. 

On 11/5/2023 at 6:19 AM, Eddie.9143 said:

have to decide between traiting for stability on stun breaks or removing ONE condi when swapping legends. wow some choices. 

1 Condi removal every 10s is the one you should go for. I mean, it's just good, and Revenants ARE weak to Condi. 

 

But okay here's what I see: 
You want to play Herald
You want to duel enemies (probably on node or whatever)

You mainly getting countered by Condis

 

Solution: Play Mallyx Glint. Sounds weird but it's really not. Invoke Torment has a okay-ish power damage with scaling and can be traited to transfer Condis. Some of these enemies you have listed have poor Condi removal themselves. That in addition to Resistance from Demon skills as well as more DR from having Resistance means you not only take less chip damage, you also ignore pesky things like Blinds Slows Cripples Weakness which are all devastating to Strike damage. And to wrap it up nicely, you have a 600 range leap that CCs enemies and Chills them. 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Yasai.3549

[arazoth.7290]

32 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Already your first mistake: If you wanted to play Herald effectively as a duelist on a node, you don't want Shield, you want to kill as fast as possible. 

You're supposed to use it together with Sword 3. Now if Sword 3 bugs out, welcome to the club where we complain to Anet about how many buggy skills Revenant has. 

Overhanded nerf imo since they already nerfed sPvP's PT, this shouldn't really need such a long cast time anymore. 

Your Condi counter option is Infuse Light. It's literally the most powerful counter to Condis because it turns their 6k ticks into 6k heals. You use Infuse Light as you are retreating of course and use Staff 4 to clean out the remaining Condis. You've essentially reset yourself this way. 

1 Condi removal every 10s is the one you should go for. I mean, it's just good, and Revenants ARE weak to Condi. 

 

But okay here's what I see: 
You want to play Herald
You want to duel enemies (probably on node or whatever)

You mainly getting countered by Condis

 

Solution: Play Mallyx Glint. Sounds weird but it's really not. Invoke Torment has a okay-ish power damage with scaling and can be traited to transfer Condis. Some of these enemies you have listed have poor Condi removal themselves. That in addition to Resistance from Demon skills as well as more DR from having Resistance means you not only take less chip damage, you also ignore pesky things like Blinds Slows Cripples Weakness which are all devastating to Strike damage. And to wrap it up nicely, you have a 600 range leap that CCs enemies and Chills them. 

He is complaining about his ffa duels. He wrote earlier he doesn't do 5v5 arena's. So he isn't talking about fighting on nodes even, just his 1v1's in FFA arena. 🫤

[Eddie.9143]

3 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Already your first mistake: If you wanted to play Herald effectively as a duelist on a node, you don't want Shield, you want to kill as fast as possible. 

You're supposed to use it together with Sword 3. Now if Sword 3 bugs out, welcome to the club where we complain to Anet about how many buggy skills Revenant has. 

Overhanded nerf imo since they already nerfed sPvP's PT, this shouldn't really need such a long cast time anymore. 

Your Condi counter option is Infuse Light. It's literally the most powerful counter to Condis because it turns their 6k ticks into 6k heals. You use Infuse Light as you are retreating of course and use Staff 4 to clean out the remaining Condis. You've essentially reset yourself this way. 

1 Condi removal every 10s is the one you should go for. I mean, it's just good, and Revenants ARE weak to Condi. 

 

But okay here's what I see: 
You want to play Herald
You want to duel enemies (probably on node or whatever)

You mainly getting countered by Condis

 

Solution: Play Mallyx Glint. Sounds weird but it's really not. Invoke Torment has a okay-ish power damage with scaling and can be traited to transfer Condis. Some of these enemies you have listed have poor Condi removal themselves. That in addition to Resistance from Demon skills as well as more DR from having Resistance means you not only take less chip damage, you also ignore pesky things like Blinds Slows Cripples Weakness which are all devastating to Strike damage. And to wrap it up nicely, you have a 600 range leap that CCs enemies and Chills them. 

I would LOVE to 1v1 you. you pick the condi class I play, and you play herald. if you can win 1 out of 10 duels i'll kneel before you.

[Creativity.3816]

why do you have to 1v1 condi specs as herald again?

[Sereath.1428]

Lately, oddly enough, you are only going to get hate here for wanting either Herald or Vindicator to not be trash against competitive players.
Especially power variants.

"Wtf brueh, how about you instead play real rev things such as core and Jalis? No? Ok how about some kittenous Herald condi variant that passively irradiates vomit all around it? Much more appealing gameplay than that tryhard Power Herald thing."

[Jobber.6348]

4 hours ago, Eddie.9143 said:

I would LOVE to 1v1 you. you pick the condi class I play, and you play herald. if you can win 1 out of 10 duels i'll kneel before you.

I 1v1 condi builds on the regular in WvW and that's where we have unnerfed Condi nonsense flying around. I'm merely translating my experience over and seeing if it can help.

If you refuse to explore your options then forget about asking for improvements: you're just coming off as whiny and unwilling to adapt.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Yasai.3549

[Eddie.9143]

Just now, Yasai.3549 said:

I 1v1 condi builds on the regular in WvW and that's where we have unnerfed Condi nonsense flying around. I'm merely translating my experience over and seeing if it can help.

If you refuse to explore your options then forget about asking for improvements: you're just coming off as whiny and unwilling to adapted. 

wvw is fake pvp. 

[Jobber.6348]

3 minutes ago, Eddie.9143 said:

wvw is fake pvp. 

I think this is a really charged topic and could serve as a very interesting discussion.

Post it onto General please, I wanna see the fallout.

[Sereath.1428]

4 hours ago, Eddie.9143 said:

wvw is fake pvp. 

I was going to suggest that because, ironically enough, Power Herald is still decent there (no PT nerf, no super nerfed Infuse Light, shorter cd SoTM, etc).
And so is Vindicator since it didn't receive the last batch of multiple damage and sustain nerfs.

I still roam there full power (berserker, marauder, dragon) with vindicator and have no trouble with most players running their kittenous celestial builds. Actually made a Cake warrior mad enough last time I dueled people that I made them switch to a celestial zerk.

Anyway, that's why I'm in WvW, more builds and more people. I highly recommend it.
WvW simply has like x30 times the population of sPvP.

sPVP is just a lost cause, population and build diversity wise. (Thanks to exclusively balancing around Conquest, the only game mode)

Edited November 17, 2023 by Sereath.1428

[Eddie.9143]

4 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

I think this is a really charged topic and could serve as a very interesting discussion.

Post it onto General please, I wanna see the fallout.

celestial = cope. gw2 knows their players are for the most part, mediocre, so they give them overloaded sustain stats in wvw so they don't flop. 

[Jobber.6348]

16 minutes ago, Eddie.9143 said:

celestial = cope. gw2 knows their players are for the most part, mediocre, so they give them overloaded sustain stats in wvw so they don't flop. 

This is another rather charged topic. I think someone else already made a topic on this so you probably shouldn't make another topic. 

[Buran.3796]

10 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

I 1v1 condi builds on the regular in WvW and that's where we have unnerfed Condi nonsense flying around. I'm merely translating my experience over and seeing if it can help.

If you refuse to explore your options then forget about asking for improvements: you're just coming off as whiny and unwilling to adapt.

   Vindi is mostly immune to condis in WvW/PvE.

   Is easy to see since builds as condi Mirage/Virtuoso which usually rely in spamimig condis and rotate a cycle of evades, blocks and other defenses ad nauseam start to fall apart and struggle after a minute because you're constantly cleansing yourself and their cooldowns begin to stack untill they no longer have defenses and they must flee or just die. In that regard, Vindi killed the other Rev specs since adresses the historical weakness of the class vs condi damage. And by the way, I use Durability relic and not Antitoxin in WvW since AT is overkill and Durability offers better overall solution since works both against condi and power damage, whereas AT is wastaed against the later.

   PvP is entirely different since gear choices are much weaker: Antitoxin is nerfed there, fury doesn't last so even running berserker 100% crit chance is not secured. So if you run a glass canon your burts are not granted, and if you run a more defensive build the stat choices are subpar and you will be slow and easy to focus. Meanwhile the meta is made of specs with great mobility, great duelling and teamfighting abilities, lots of cc and very good sustain/recovery: they have all.

[Buran.3796]

5 hours ago, Eddie.9143 said:

celestial = cope. gw2 knows their players are for the most part, mediocre, so they give them overloaded sustain stats in wvw so they don't flop. 

   Celestial is the meta in WvW, and is becoming the meta in open world PvE, also.

   I don't known how anyone could claim that berserker and viper stats are the meta for high end instanced content speed runners (they are) and at the same time have the cognitive disonance to refuse aknownledge of celestial being the meta stats in WvW (specially at roaming).

   Outside Bladesworn (which doesn't work with conditions, and they are few at WvW at the moment, to be honest) Willbender (which works better with Dragon/Marauder stats, albeit plenty of players already run cele anyway) and some Mesmer/Thief and sometimes Warriors and  sniper Rangers every spec outside a zerg (and oftenly in zergs) runs celestial. Happens with every Necro variant, any Ele spec, most of Guardians outside DH. Yes, sometimes condi builds chose Trailblazer, Dire or Carrion to maximize damage. But those builds, when facing celestial ones on equal skill level end being forced to either flee or sucumb.  And is not only in 1 v 1: some people think that a sqad with a Minstrel healer, a support and three dps specs can beat a squad of celestial specs, but most of the time they won't: put a Tempest + Scourge celestial healers (maybe a FB instead), three celestial bruisers and they will trample any other team composition. And is how it should be: cele is +59.45% stat increase over 4 stat gear, so as long as your build takes advantage of each stat, you'll have massive numeric lever, and when the skill is paired, is just matter of maths.

[Jobber.6348]

12 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Celestial is the meta in WvW, and is becoming the meta in open world PvE, also.

   I don't known how anyone could claim that berserker and viper stats are the meta for high end instanced content speed runners (they are) and at the same time have the cognitive disonance to refuse aknownledge of celestial being the meta stats in WvW (specially at roaming).

   Outside Bladesworn (which doesn't work with conditions, and they are few at WvW at the moment, to be honest) Willbender (which works better with Dragon/Marauder stats, albeit plenty of players already run cele anyway) and some Mesmer/Thief and sometimes Warriors and  sniper Rangers every spec outside a zerg (and oftenly in zergs) runs celestial. Happens with every Necro variant, any Ele spec, most of Guardians outside DH. Yes, sometimes condi builds chose Trailblazer, Dire or Carrion to maximize damage. But those builds, when facing celestial ones on equal skill level end being forced to either flee or sucumb.  And is not only in 1 v 1: some people think that a sqad with a Minstrel healer, a support and three dps specs can beat a squad of celestial specs, but most of the time they won't: put a Tempest + Scourge celestial healers (maybe a FB instead), three celestial bruisers and they will trample any other team composition. And is how it should be: cele is +59.45% stat increase over 4 stat gear, so as long as your build takes advantage of each stat, you'll have massive numeric lever, and when the skill is paired, is just matter of maths.

It's not NEARLY as bad as you're describing atm but it's getting there surely. Some may argue is a good thing or a bad thing because it ruins x builds yada yada but it's more healthy to see it as players exploring hybrid builds more and just diversifying their options in a build. 

Glass builds WILL still exist mind you, but the player using it will have to back it up majorly with skill and simply beat an opponent using pure game knowledge and superior skill expression. 

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

21 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Glass builds WILL still exist mind you, but the player using it will have to back it up majorly with skill and simply beat an opponent using pure game knowledge and superior skill expression. 

Or run in a group of 5-10+ other “skilled” glass (solo)roamers, ghanking anything that moves and complaining about “cele kitten” if anything last longer than 0.5s when they all “outplay” it. Eventually ruining an entire BL by farming any hope of small scale content or solo roaming (which all those skilled roamers want) to then complain that there’s no content and the game is dead while simultaneously pushing those people they’re 5-10 v1’ing to group up in zergs or put on cele gear… creating their own problems with their playstyle and friendship stats…

 

EDIT: I know that this post is originally about Spvp, but there was talk of wvw, and have listened and seen many self proclaimed skilled players play this way and have been on the receiving end of it almost nightly on NA

Edited November 18, 2023 by UncreativeGreen.2019

[Lighter.5631]

dam, you really going in as a roamer and want to go toe to toe with bruisers..

if it goes 50/50 on any build which you listed, why would you play any of those builds, because herald can teleport like1800 range and instant does 8k burst...

i agree herald is lacking, but in it's own category of finishing target...

so this is competely missing the mark

you can't keep the entire shiro utility and expect to go toe to toe with specs that does not have them

Edited November 18, 2023 by Lighter.5631