Are we really comfortable paying for unfinished expansions?

[Tanuki.4603]

People have sour taste after this patch beacuse the story is less than old living world, we don't even get full map like old living world and strike got barely any work done besides a copypaste mechanic from a previous strike, and is extremely easy even for pug groups.  We've paid for an unfinished expansion without any feature and it only shows now how empty this patch will be, since we cannot even work further to progress our legendary armor like with the last patch, and the wait for the next update is twice as it was for this. Let's not forget the last fractal realease bugged for months with kittened up scaling as it was a scrapped strike.

Now, wow released their 10.2 patch yesterday, skim thru this page linked below to see how much content they add:

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/dragonflight-patch-10-2-guardians-of-the-dream-overview

Its an absurd amount compared to GW2, one patch is way more content than entire soto with 4 updates, they get tons of cosmetics available ingame, tons of customization, meaningful storylines. the story is 10 hours of gameplay + raid and side quests twice the amount of that.

 

Are we really comfortable with the current ANet approach being the right future for GW2? Paying for unifnished expansions that bring very little every 3-4 months? There has to be a better way to deliver content.

[Tanek.5983]

I admit I am one who sees SotO as lesser (story, characters, repeatable content) than other expansions and living world content, but I also got that living world for free over the years, so that is mitigating how I approach this. Am I happy to pay for this expansion, even if it is delivered in pieces over a year? Yes. This is a new approach and I am guessing ANet is getting plenty of feedback on how it is going. I see some people who say this has been their favorite expansion, so there are definitely a variety of opinions out there.

That said, if we get to the end of this and the next one is the same for me, I may reevaluate how I approach future expansions. I could easily decide that what I get out of the game is well worth the cost of the expansion (especially with no additional monthly, so the WoW comparison feels off, but I have not played that game since Cata came out). Basically, GW2 has spoiled me over the past 11 years, so I'll cut it a little slack when there is content that isn't specifically how I'd have preferred it.
(Except if the next one has us grinding rifts or an equivalent again. This is the first time since I started playing GW2 in the 3 day head start that it has felt grindy to me with very little to mask or mitigate that grind. No slack for endless rifting. 😛)

We'll see how it goes.

Edited November 9, 2023 by Tanek.5983

[DanAlcedo.3281]

SotO is 20 bucks. What did you expect? 

That not even 2 hours of work here. Even on a low paying job. 

20 euros is simply not much money and we get what we pay for. 

Remember that most games are 70 euros + now. 

Look at the money blizzard is asking for its games. 

It's unreasonable to expect the world for this little money.

 

Edited November 9, 2023 by DanAlcedo.3281

[Cyninja.2954]

51 minutes ago, Tanuki.4603 said:

Are we really comfortable with the current ANet approach being the right future for GW2? Paying for unifnished expansions that bring very little every 3-4 months? There has to be a better way to deliver content.

Simply put:

There is almost nothing Anet could do to reach the levels of scum that is Blizzard monetization. Sorry but you are being severely dishonest here when comparing content to pricing.

Small reminder: the price for early access that Blizzard charges on their games by now is the same as the entire mini expansion you are talking about. That is not including subscription fees, battle passes or even the actual base cost of their games.

Edited November 9, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[kharmin.7683]

GW2 is B2P.  You don't need the latest to still enjoy the game.  With no vertical progression, you can choose to purchase the new content or not and you really won't lose anything.

[Dopamine.6324]

mean guess its pretty fair comparison gw2 to wow, so similar prices
like if you played wow since start, you would have paid upto 4k€ already by just being able to play the game with all latest content

so lets do some math, lets just say each xpac+base game gw2 total 250€.
gw2 = 250€ 11 years
wow = 4000€ 19? years
you tell me which has higher content per € value

Edited November 9, 2023 by Dopamine.6324

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 hour ago, Tanuki.4603 said:

People have sour taste after this patch beacuse the story is less than old living world, we don't even get full map like old living world and strike got barely any work done besides a copypaste mechanic from a previous strike, and is extremely easy even for pug groups.  We've paid for an unfinished expansion without any feature and it only shows now how empty this patch will be, since we cannot even work further to progress our legendary armor like with the last patch, and the wait for the next update is twice as it was for this. Let's not forget the last fractal realease bugged for months with kittened up scaling as it was a scrapped strike.

Now, wow released their 10.2 patch yesterday, skim thru this page linked below to see how much content they add:

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/dragonflight-patch-10-2-guardians-of-the-dream-overview

Its an absurd amount compared to GW2, one patch is way more content than entire soto with 4 updates, they get tons of cosmetics available ingame, tons of customization, meaningful storylines. the story is 10 hours of gameplay + raid and side quests twice the amount of that.

 

Are we really comfortable with the current ANet approach being the right future for GW2? Paying for unifnished expansions that bring very little every 3-4 months? There has to be a better way to deliver content.

Anet releases expansion with all the content over long cycle: BAD, TOO SLOW, NO EXTRA CONTENT
Anet releases expansion broken up into bits over the same cycle: BAD, TOO LITTLE CONTENT(per release)

[Randulf.7614]

I do think this episode was underwhelming and a tad rushed. I don’t think it was bad output though. SoTo appears to have been rather successful - at least anecdotally. I’m not seeing dissatisfaction in chat, in fact I’m seeing a lot of positive engagement and content seems more populated than ever before.

Whilst I have concerns, things seem to be working for the game on a wider basis. And I did think SoTo was a strong start, even if I’ve never perceived it as a proper expansion.

I don’t think they’ve not delivered on what they said either. Whilst underwhelming, we got 1/3 of a map and a small chunk of story. That should not be unexpected even if it was to me, below the quality standard they set themselves previously 

Overall, I have had value for money so far, no question

Edited November 9, 2023 by Randulf.7614

[DeanBB.4268]

1 hour ago, Tanuki.4603 said:

... and the wait for the next update is twice as it was for this.

How do we know the next chunk doesn't arrive for 6 months? Did I miss that?

[Lucy.3728]

1 hour ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Remember that most games are 70 euros

I paid 70€ for SotO.

Or how much was the ultimate?

Wasn't cheaper than EoD.

And I expected a story with an end. Had no bad experience before so I was ofc disappointed. And I wont touch it again before it is completed. And I hope the next time this happens, I get informed about an incomplete story in the shop, so the next whatever-they-release wont be my next disappointment.

Edited November 9, 2023 by Lucy.3728

[BlueJin.4127]

While you make some good points, I don’t think comparing to WoW is fair. You can buy SotO for less than 2 months of WoW subscription (US currency), and that’s not even counting having to buy WoW expansions separately. In terms of value, GW2 outdoes WoW.

Edited November 9, 2023 by BlueJin.4127

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

9 minutes ago, Lucy.3728 said:

I paid 70€ for SotO.

Or how much was the ultimate?

Wasn't cheaper than EoD.

And I expected a story with an end. Had no bad experience before so I was ofc disappointed. And I wont touch it again before it is completed. And I hope the next time this happens, I get informed about an incomplete story in the shop, so the next whatever-they-release wont be my next disappointment.

Compare the base costs or the equivalent edition costs. 25€ - 70€ or 70€ - 100€.

[Ashen.2907]

I am not particularly impressed with SotO, a continuation of bad writing and content design, but the comparison to WoW, considering cost, seems a bit off to me.

[Ashantara.8731]

I am comfortable with the concept of paying for content that will drop bit by bit across a year.

What I am not comfortable with is that it feels like Icebrood Saga all over again qualitywise: it starts out extremely promising, but then, with each update, it feels less and less satisfying.

Let's hope Update 2 will hold more interesting content overall.

Edited November 10, 2023 by Ashantara.8731

[Sweetbread.3678]

Like yeah this patch isn't absolutely insane and redefining the game or something, but it introduced some decent evegreen content (gl getting enjoyment out of WoW content once it's current expac/patch is done) with convergences and the new zone. Also it's pretty clearly the "light" patch to the upcoming "heavy" weapon updates one that should hit in about 120 days if the Wizard's Vault countdown is correct (which it was for this update). 

Considering the $25 cost, SotO seems pretty reasonable to me. If this was a WoW expac, at this point you'd have paid at least $95 for the base game + three months of sub ($230 if you wanna scale that to an entire year's worth of content/playtime). Honestly I kind of just have to laugh when people pull this like "HOW DARE THEY" stuff about the value of GW2 content, especially if they're comparing it to WoW which literally costs more than 9 times more (and that's without even counting the cash shop lol) and all of the content that  Blizz does add to it is pretty much guaranteed to be outdated and dead within 4 months because the game runs entirely on a fomo hamster wheel.

Edited November 10, 2023 by Sweetbread.3678

[Danikat.8537]

This is why I always say I wouldn't buy something before knowing exactly what it is I'm paying for, and find it weird when people do those polls asking if someone would buy the next expansion (or a new console, or whatever) before it's announced - it's impossible to make an informed decision at that point.

I made my decision based entirely on the original release, if I didn't think that was enough and I was hoping the later releases would make up for it I'd wait until they were announced (or released) before bying it, rather than paying first and hoping it'd be something I wanted to buy.

I think £22 was a reasonable price for the original release, so I'm not worried about what's in the later releases, they're a bonus. Although I do like what I've seen of Through the Veil so far (I've only done the first part of the story and a few events on the new map). I really like the style of Nayos, it's very creepy. (I found a 'tree' made of faces and tentacles above the Astral Ward camp.)

Also if we're comparing to other MMOs then SotO is £12 cheaper than Elder Scrolls Online's latest expansion (which also has a very creepy new map) and that's only got 2 maps and the only additional thing is an infinite dungeon re-hashing bosses from other dungeons which takes hours for one run and resets if you leave, so I'll probably never play it. (I suppose I could say the extra £12 was for the new class, but I haven't played that yet either and it's not really a theme that appeals to me.)

[Teknomancer.4895]

The base expansion price (without any of the extra bells and whistles) is $25 USD.

Yes, I'm absolutely comfortable with paying the price of a pizza, or a few drive-thru lunches, for a game expansion (even mini/partial).

The food will only take a few minutes to consume, and then it's gone. If more is wanted, then more has to be purchased.

The expansion will permanently give me several hours of entertainment content to consume, with more to come -- and I already paid for the "more" part.

Honestly I have no idea what people are complaining about.

[Solvar.7953]

I've not bought the expansion yet, partly because I don't want to buy something without knowing what I'm getting.  That decision is based partly on the fact I've not been that impressed with most of the content starting from IBS.  But also largely because there are some other games I want to play right now, so I'll take my time and play those and come back to SotO when I've finished those up.

And I think that is where some of the 'is $25' a fair price comes from - it isn't just looking at SotO on its own, it looking at what other games are out there.  You can get Baldur's Gate 3 for $60, and people might argue that it contains a more than 2.5 times the content of SotO, so is a better buy for the money.  Each person has to make their own decisions on what something is worth - the fact it doesn't cost much might not be a good deciding factor for some people.

 

[Hsanrb.1570]

Considering other MMO's you pay a monthly sub for the "post-expansion" patches... its just the development structure. We can either wait an unknown amount of time for all of it at once, or we wait a few months at a time and have some schedule to play by. Some want to have all of it at once, just buy it at the end of the patch cycle, some like having periods of time where they return, play for a few days and then go on their way for 3 months. Both have proven to work, and both have pros and cons. GW2 is lucky that all expansion content is at a base difficulty based on lvl 80 exotic so all content remains relevant, but NOT guaranteed to be popular. You could play games where expansion content is on a shelf life, because vertical power creep will eventually cause old content to expire (or be soloable.)

Edited November 9, 2023 by Hsanrb.1570
spelling and grammer mistakes are bad

[fatihso.7258]

4 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

SotO is 20 bucks. What did you expect? 

That not even 2 hours of work here. Even on a low paying job. 

20 euros is simply not much money and we get what we pay for. 

Remember that most games are 70 euros + now. 

Look at the money blizzard is asking for its games. 

It's unreasonable to expect the world for this little money.

 

Black Desert Online, another mmo which is b2p same as gw2. They don’t even charge for their expansions and they always deliver content and refine their game for past and future systems. 
 

gw2 is the only mmo out there that delivers the minimum content compared to any other mmo that’s relevant.

[Morvran.8265]

I have a feeling Anet started releasing new weapon teasers a day after the patch to shift attention away from it. They probably expected people to be disappointed and don't want us talking about the patch.

[Dopamine.6324]

8 minutes ago, fatihso.7258 said:

Black Desert Online, another mmo which is b2p same as gw2. They don’t even charge for their expansions and they always deliver content and refine their game for past and future systems. 
 

gw2 is the only mmo out there that delivers the minimum content compared to any other mmo that’s relevant.

maybe if gw2 adapted bdo's "b2p+p2w+p2p" business model, we could also have way faster content as revenue would skyrocket fr

[Teknomancer.4895]

32 minutes ago, Solvar.7953 said:

And I think that is where some of the 'is $25' a fair price comes from - it isn't just looking at SotO on its own, it looking at what other games are out there. 

But that approach makes it seem more like an investment than a simple entertainment purchase, which to me is the wrong way to look at it.

How much does going to a movie theater cost, including the snacks?

What's the price of concert tickets for [insert artist name here]?

How much will you drop on a night at the club?

Which is the better value depends entirely on what you're in the mood for. If you like the looks of the other game, then buy it. SotO will still be for sale later. 🤷‍♂️

Edited November 9, 2023 by Teknomancer.4895

[Anyandrell.6238]

4 hours ago, Tanuki.4603 said:

People have sour taste

Then "people" should eat some honey or something. Literally everybody I know in the game is ok with value for money and has fun playing this new expansion.

You're not speaking for everybody.

[enigmatic.3576]

4 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Anet releases expansion with all the content over long cycle: BAD, TOO SLOW, NO EXTRA CONTENT
Anet releases expansion broken up into bits over the same cycle: BAD, TOO LITTLE CONTENT(per release)

Be careful with this as there is a difference between HoT/PoF expansion cycles and the SoTo one.