Staff Warriors Bring Frontline Support to the Heat of the Battle

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

3 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

It won't have alac. They've moved alac and quickness for the most part to elites. Heal and Protection though would be useful.

Useful but unlikely. Warrior still has the "offensive" support role attached to it, meaning it'll likely be something to keep the momentum going rather than straight up damage reductions.
Resistance is the more likely candidate.

Looking at bullet catcher (and how everyone is worries about it being unreliable) I would say an AoE taunt would be a perfect fit for staff's kit.
Warrior may not excel at damage reducing boons, but taunting groups of enemies to take them on himself is a very warrior thing to do, which greatly synergizes with his numerous self-oriented defenses in his core kit.

I can imagine spellbreakers and bladesworns absolutely loving such a  feature.

Edited November 12, 2023 by ZeftheWicked.3076

[Fueki.4753]

10 hours ago, ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

And by that logic i'm pretty sure our healing will be in a large aoe and not difficult to pull off.

I think it being AoE is likely as well. But I'm not so certain that the range will be large.

If Arenanet designs it with the stacking meta in mind, they may consider a range of 300 or 450 sufficient.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Honestly, with some Fury coming from the weapon, lots of mobility and leaps, a heal on block skill (hopefully we can move while using it instead of getting rooted) and maybe some cc, Staff will become an ideal roaming weapon. Even if the power scaling is bad, I'll just run damage traits and glass gear if it has enough active defenses to make up for that. It's not like I was not running full zerk roamers already anyway..

[draxynnic.3719]

1 hour ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Honestly, with some Fury coming from the weapon, lots of mobility and leaps, a heal on block skill (hopefully we can move while using it instead of getting rooted) and maybe some cc, Staff will become an ideal roaming weapon. Even if the power scaling is bad, I'll just run damage traits and glass gear if it has enough active defenses to make up for that. It's not like I was not running full zerk roamers already anyway..

Could end up, unsurprisingly, like revs use their staff - as a utility weapon used alongside a more offensive weapon set. So you could use the staff to sustain and buff and then swap to a damage set to hopefully deliver a knockout spike.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Could end up, unsurprisingly, like revs use their staff - as a utility weapon used alongside a more offensive weapon set. So you could use the staff to sustain and buff and then swap to a damage set to hopefully deliver a knockout spike.

If it allows us to drop shield for an aggressive offhand, it will be awesome.

Dagger, axe never saw much play. Sword for the block and dagger for the reflect a bit, but only after wastrel's was buffed.

With the CD decrease in mace offhand, heck that might be worth looking into, baking your CC in your second set offhand.

Shield was a prison for too long.

Pistol is OK and synergizes already too much so I didn't mention it.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Sword/mace, Savage leap into tremor, or vice versa followed by Crushing Blow and Final Thrust.

[Hecksler Der Henker.9280]

That sounds very good. Finally the warrior gets more support from the weapon. The warhorn with the 4 and 5 is good, but it's not enough. That changes now with the staff.

Now I just hope that in the game you learn why you can carry new weapons, like in the other addons.

And that there is a guild banner staff skin 😄

[Max Out.5732]

10 minutes ago, Hecksler Der Henker.9280 said:

And that there is a guild banner staff skin 😄

Oh yeah! Not only guild banner staff skin would be sweet, but also there should be a staff skin that looks like the Battle Standard elite skill. The skin/assets are already in the game!

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

*looks at all the other weapon reveals having special mechanics* So where is the Staff's special mechanic? Is the roar on Staff 5 a shout? Because that would be great.

[Fueki.4753]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

*looks at all the other weapon reveals having special mechanics* So where is the Staff's special mechanic? Is the roar on Staff 5 a shout? Because that would be great.

I'm not even slightly surprised that we effectively got no special mechanic.

It's just the same Warrior business as always.

[Mara.6782]

Why playing staff warrior when you can play scepter revenant. Warrior got it worst of new weapons.

[Fueki.4753]

11 hours ago, Mara.6782 said:

Why playing staff warrior when you can play scepter revenant. Warrior got it worst of new weapons.

For some it's not a matter of "Why play profession X, when profession X is worse?

For some it's a matter of "Why play the game, when profession X is the one I enjoy most, but they purposely keep it worse than it should be?"

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Max Out.5732]

2 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

For some it's a matter of "Why play the game, when profession X is the one I enjoy most, but they purposely keep it worse than it should be?"

Preach!

[RiyazGuerra.9203]

7 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

*looks at all the other weapon reveals having special mechanics* So where is the Staff's special mechanic? Is the roar on Staff 5 a shout? Because that would be great.

Yes please, there needs to be one or more shouts for the Staff boon sharing skills.  That would be nice synergy with Vigorous Shouts.

[Jzaku.9765]

5 minutes ago, RiyazGuerra.9203 said:

Yes please, there needs to be one or more shouts for the Staff boon sharing skills.  That would be nice synergy with Vigorous Shouts.

They should just kill Vigorous Shouts as a trait, and focus on healing through weapon skills and class mechanics like every other class in the game that isn't being brutally trait and utility skill taxed just to apply the most basic functionality of a healer.

[RiyazGuerra.9203]

2 minutes ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

They should just kill Vigorous Shouts as a trait, and focus on healing through weapon skills and class mechanics like every other class in the game that isn't being brutally trait and utility skill taxed just to apply the most basic functionality of a healer.

I hear you but it is kind of nice to be mostly free to wield any weapon set (Staff might change this) and be able to toss out heals via utility skills.  It's a tradeoff.

[ilabsentuser.8726]

I have to point a few key things here. I am sure I speak for the vast majority of the warrior community, even for those who are not interested in being support, when I say that we have been waiting a support option for the profession for years now. It is the front where we are severely lacking since forever. Now, I will not pass judgement yet as we do not know much at this point. However I really hope this comment gets some visibility and devs think about what I am going to say. We have been waiting for this so much time that the hype is very high for all of us. (please, make an effort with this so that we can all benefit from a job well done) The new weapons seems to be focused on an offensive support which honestly is not where the warrior lacks, it also seems non PVE oriented, which is the place where warrior needs its 'support' front covered the most. It is not because WvW (which I love too) or PvP are not important but rather because warrior has good builds for that content yet which can be somewhat supportive with boon rip, cc etc. On the support PVE side warrior is one of the most bland and ineffective professions out there. With this said, I think that the whole idea of "offensive support" should be properly thought after. The weapon seems like it is going to be good for roaming for example, some protection, some heal, mobility etc. If that ends being the case, I think this will be considered another failed attempt at a support tool for warriors. I, and many others like me, think that the warrior has been of the short end of excitement for a while now in terms of new and refreshing thing. Remember, we can do 'ka-braham' in a lot of ways, so we are all expecting this to be refreshing in that regard. Also, so far all the revelations have shown some gimmick to the to be released weapon, warrior doesn't seem ro have none, I think it should, else it will feel probably feel a bit behind the others in someway. Again, this might not be the case as we haven't seen much yet, but is something to consider. On another note, with warhorn being completely a support weapon I think it would instead be a good idea to rework a 1h weapon to be supportive too, for example mace. I dont see a reason why mace couldn't have the second part of its block skill provide a boon once used for example protection or aegis, or its daze apply another boon for allies and irs chain some vigor, resistance, etc . Warriors, even if physically themed can be inspiring for others and such, along with hwarorn provide some support. It is specially sad that so many years and we are still being left hanging in this front. Though I admit that current efforts are a great step forward, I really hope we go all the way and don't end up with something mediocre. That's pretty much it, I rrally hope the devs get to see this in case the des8gn of the weapon can be improved upon, specially the gimmick part as sinxe nothing was said, I am pretty sure it doesn't have any.

[Fueki.4753]

3 hours ago, ilabsentuser.8726 said:

However I really hope this comment gets some visibility and devs think about what I am going to say.

If you want more people to read it, you should try using paragraphs. Walls of text tend to get skipped over by people.

As for a support-oriented right-handed weapon paired with Warhorn, I'd rather see them give us Sceptre and have it be thrown like a Javelin, rather than having another weapon reworked for support. I know that train has departed for now, but maybe they add new weapons again in the future.

Paragon in GW1 was effectively a more support-oriented (and ranged) interpretation of Warrior, so our support-oriented weapon could have been an homage to that.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Wulfhearth.7962]

13 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

*looks at all the other weapon reveals having special mechanics* So where is the Staff's special mechanic? Is the roar on Staff 5 a shout? Because that would be great.

Yeah, a shout would be cool. 

Or it's gimmick is that the heal can actually crit and benefits from offensive stats as well as healing power. (If that's able to be coded, that is)

Edited November 14, 2023 by Wulfhearth.7962

[Max Out.5732]

2 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Paragon in GW1 was effectively a more support-oriented (and ranged) interpretation of Warrior, so our support-oriented weapon could have been an homage to that.

I haven't thought about scepter+shield combo for "Paragon" homage, but it would be cool.

There was some hope in me that the staff attacks would be ranged but again that is not the case.

When they announced EoD and i first heard pistol will be given to warrior i had my hopes up for pistol/shield combo or pistol/pistol but they made it offhand as we all know.

Well we will see a preview soon so we will know if we can still be hyped or we will get a cold shower (as usual)...

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I still want MH pistol with a field on 2, 3, or F1 and blasts on the other two skills. With the Karakosa Relic that would work even better than when I first proposed MH Pistol as a support weapon.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

I have a case to make that for wvw, support Core warrior might be much better than spb in practice, in a much less hybrid sense.

Looking at it from a technical perspective, it's highly possible that Staff's burst skill, despite any damage that it may inflict, will most definitely have some type of healing or boon which should scale with adrenaline tiers. That alone is of higher value than Spb's occasional double t1 burst. Furthermore, with the new heightened focus added, for better or worse, this burst recharge ability will become available on core warr, which may allow for back to back t3 staff bursts.

Furthermore, the main niche of support spb has been it's hybrid tank ability to boonrip. After the nerfs to Enchantment collapse and the mandatory slotting of break enchantments and wod, you lose out on your elite banner for rezz potential, which is something a healer should theoratically have, and a utility skill.

The we have the second weapon set. Hammer is a must have for spb to function and boonrip. With staff as the main support weapon, this means you need to drop hammer for x/wh. This is too big of a trade-off for spb, even if hammer spb can allow for 2 blasts with karakosa, the burst being relatively low cd. 

I have even been trying longbow as a means of maximing heal warr's potential (I am forced to not take the warhorn trait, so I lose out on the resi/fury, but I gain the heal/prot of soldier's focus, which should scale to bursts if it's not getting the cd removed). It works, but I think staff with x/wh will just be better. 

Without SpB you can consider running defense for self-resi or defy pain on your elite use, whch can be a game changer, while also bringing the ability to reflect with shield mastery and your best banner for healing. BoD. This also opens up the potential for mace maihand, to gain value of the reflect, albeit you lose your leap, but staff should cover us there. And finally it gives the ability for self-cleanse and much easier healing of oneself (esp if running karakosa which doesnt heal you) and easy adrenal management with Shiled Mastery and Cleansing Ire. 

Overall, don't expect to reach the cleanses of other supports, or have the boon variety of other specs, esp if you don't play BoT (and realistically you should not with a good stab source where mesmers may also start shining), but its more than capable of doing it's job. 

This is for any elitist squad in wvw who may tell you core warr is not a proper spec. 

 

Edit: As I said with shield master opting you to use mace mainhand and BoD for the heals and aegis, lets not forget the blocks and projectile denial of staff itself, which will make the trait more worthwhile and give you heaps of adrenaline from reflects. This means that even if you block attacks you will still gain adrenal benefit, than say, playing only cleansing ire and requiring many attacks to hit you (not use your blocks) for adrenaline.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Grand Marshal.4098
Shield master interactions

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

18 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

I have a case to make that for wvw, support Core warrior might be much better than spb in practice, in a much less hybrid sense.

Looking at it from a technical perspective, it's highly possible that Staff's burst skill, despite any damage that it may inflict, will most definitely have some type of healing or boon which should scale with adrenaline tiers. That alone is of higher value than Spb's occasional double t1 burst. Furthermore, with the new heightened focus added, for better or worse, this burst recharge ability will become available on core warr, which may allow for back to back t3 staff bursts.

Furthermore, the main niche of support spb has been it's hybrid tank ability to boonrip. After the nerfs to Enchantment collapse and the mandatory slotting of break enchantments and wod, you lose out on your elite banner for rezz potential, which is something a healer should theoratically have, and a utility skill.

The we have the second weapon set. Hammer is a must have for spb to function and boonrip. With staff as the main support weapon, this means you need to drop hammer for x/wh. This is too big of a trade-off for spb, even if hammer spb can allow for 2 blasts with karakosa, the burst being relatively low cd. 

I have even been trying longbow as a means of maximing heal warr's potential (I am forced to not take the warhorn trait, so I lose out on the resi/fury, but I gain the heal/prot of soldier's focus, which should scale to bursts if it's not getting the cd removed). It works, but I think staff with x/wh will just be better. 

Without SpB you can consider running defense for self-resi or defy pain on your elite use, whch can be a game changer, while also bringing the ability to reflect with shield mastery and your best banner for healing. BoD. This also opens up the potential for mace maihand, to gain value of the reflect, albeit you lose your leap, but staff should cover us there. And finally it gives the ability for self-cleanse and much easier healing of oneself (esp if running karakosa which doesnt heal you) and easy adrenal management with Shiled Mastery and Cleansing Ire. 

Overall, don't expect to reach the cleanses of other supports, or have the boon variety of other specs, esp if you don't play BoT (and realistically you should not with a good stab source where mesmers may also start shining), but its more than capable of doing it's job. 

This is for any elitist squad in wvw who may tell you core warr is not a proper spec. 

I'll reinforce all of this by saying that I spent time in PvE metas doing just this. Longbow+X/horn with TTL, SiO, FGJ, BoD, BS. Tactics: Mid/Mid/Mid Disc: Mid/Top/Bot Def: Top/Bot/Mid.

MH with LB4 in OW drives adrenaline really well, run Resilient Roll instead over in WvW. The 4 blasts, the two big barrier skills, very respectable regen ticks, consistent condi removal from SiO and WH and light field blasts, two ammo heals, and another aoe heal on F1 and self heal. Gives a lot of good boons too. When beta comes out, the question I'll have is whether Staff has at least 2 blast skills, and if not, if the sum healing is better than two blasts from Karakosa. I suspect that the healing will not rely on Karakosa, in that there will be plenty of healing on the weapon without blast finishers. If that is the case then we could probably move to Monk Relic, but prior to staff coming out, the Relic of Karakosa has definitely opened up support warrior to function.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

9 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I'll reinforce all of this by saying that I spent time in PvE metas doing just this. Longbow+X/horn with TTL, SiO, FGJ, BoD, BS. Tactics: Mid/Mid/Mid Disc: Mid/Top/Bot Def: Top/Bot/Mid.

MH with LB4 in OW drives adrenaline really well, run Resilient Roll instead over in WvW. The 4 blasts, the two big barrier skills, very respectable regen ticks, consistent condi removal from SiO and WH and light field blasts, two ammo heals, and another aoe heal on F1 and self heal. Gives a lot of good boons too. When beta comes out, the question I'll have is whether Staff has at least 2 blast skills, and if not, if the sum healing is better than two blasts from Karakosa. I suspect that the healing will not rely on Karakosa, in that there will be plenty of healing on the weapon without blast finishers. If that is the case then we could probably move to Monk Relic, but prior to staff coming out, the Relic of Karakosa has definitely opened up support warrior to function.

It would be terrible to not have at least 1 blast, tho that seems to be the case with the f1. The rush skill will probs just be a leap. I don't think they will be kind enough to give us 2 blasts.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

22 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

It would be terrible to not have at least 1 blast, tho that seems to be the case with the f1. The rush skill will probs just be a leap. I don't think they will be kind enough to give us 2 blasts.

If F1 is a blast finisher though then with the new Heightened Focus we'd refresh it. I can see F1 being the only blast in that case. There could be a single skill on the bar, say skill 3, that is a blast finisher and has ammo. Thematically I can see it as planting the butt of the staff into the ground like the old Banner skill 5.

That and the Roar from Staff 5's flipover skill could itself be a blast finisher.