Why don't we have unique Character Models for Demons?

[Ashantara.8731]

99.9% of them all look like your standard Kryptis. 😕

I expected unique character models like Peitha's for characters such as Ramses and Irja.

This only makes the new content more boring.

Or have Kryptis been turned this way by Eparch? Is he taking a bite for a snack out of each of them? 😄

Edited November 11, 2023 by Ashantara.8731

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Money. It cost money to create said models. 

Question is, does this create profit? 

Probably not. 

[Ashantara.8731]

2 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Money. It cost money to create said models. 

Question is, does this create profit? 

Probably not. 

I don't know. If the next "expansion" has the same low standard of zero variety in map population across the maps, it will definitely be the last one I would buy.

[Biziut.3594]

Yeah, most kryptis mobs are repurposed models from previous parts like Ramzes is basicly a naga that is repurposed krait. They did just the same with the Void mobs models. I think I can count mobs with original skeleton on the fingers od my one hand.

[Kalavier.1097]

Because there is obviously meant to be a clear division between the "Nobility" and houses of Kryptis like Peitha, Kanaxai, Cerus, Deimos, Haitor, and the "commoners".

The commoners are the ones we've been fighting all over the place.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

12 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

99.9% of them all look like your standard Kryptis. 😕

I expected unique character models like Peitha's for characters such as Ramses and Irja.

This only makes the new content more boring.

Or have Kryptis been turned this way by Eparch? Is he taking a bite for a snack out of each of them? 😄

It makes some sense because it shows that there isn't a clear dimorphism between the "good demons" and the "bad demons" and shows that any type of Kryptis could be on either side of the battle.

I mean, who complained that the Joko Loyalists looked like every other Elonian out there? Or the Purists who appear like regular Canthans? Some have unique models, most do not.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[draxynnic.3719]

6 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

It makes some sense because it shows that there isn't a clear dimorphism between the "good demons" and the "bad demons" and shows that any type of Kryptis could be on either side of the battle.

I mean, who complained that the Joko Loyalists looked like every other Elonian out there? Or the Purists who appear like regular Canthans? Some have unique models, most do not.

On top of this, it also clearly establishes that it isn't just the High Kryptis that are sapient. Eparch eating lesser Kryptis for power would be a lot less shocking if, as far as we knew, only the most powerful Kryptis were actually sapient with the leaders controlling them like a hive mind. But now we have evidence that at least most of the Kryptis we see are independently sapient beings with their own personalities. (There is one variety that is apparently generated through a projectile, since I managed to acquire one or two 'pets' during a story instance.)

[Ashantara.8731]

5 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

On top of this, it also clearly establishes that it isn't just the High Kryptis that are sapient. Eparch eating lesser Kryptis for power would be a lot less shocking if, as far as we knew, only the most powerful Kryptis were actually sapient with the leaders controlling them like a hive mind. But now we have evidence that at least most of the Kryptis we see are independently sapient beings with their own personalities. (There is one variety that is apparently generated through a projectile, since I managed to acquire one or two 'pets' during a story instance.)

Still curious, though, why most look like eaten, rotting beings, while some have a humanoid, unique form.

[draxynnic.3719]

6 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Still curious, though, why most look like eaten, rotting beings, while some have a humanoid, unique form.

That seems to be the distinction between the noble Kryptis and the followers - all of those with humanoid forms without gaps and holes seem to be members of the noble houses. Why there is that distinction is less clear, though - is it simply that more powerful Kryptis are able to maintain more complete forms, or is there something else going on?

Uniqueness is probably simply that it's relatively easy to commit to unique appearances for named characters, but you probably don't want to invest in making every footsoldier unique.

[Ashantara.8731]

3 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

is it simply that more powerful Kryptis are able to maintain more complete forms, or is there something else going on?

The "common demons" look like they are being Eparch's snack bar, considering all the missing body parts. 😄

2 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Uniqueness is probably simply that it's relatively easy to commit to unique appearances for named characters, but you probably don't want to invest in making every footsoldier unique.

Ramses is not a footsoldier, though, AFAIK.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Ashantara.8731

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

4 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Still curious, though, why most look like eaten, rotting beings, while some have a humanoid, unique form.

Probably the same reason why Razah was nearly human-like, while most Stygian demons in GW1 looked like inside-out copies of Tyrian animals like centaurs or ntouka birds. To quote Razah's entry in the manual:

The protomatter that makes up the Mists strains toward creation, often spawning demonic creations in nightmarish forms. Not all creatures from the Mists are demonic, however. When the Mists come into contact with a suitable human template, for example, it can copy that form, creating a sentient entity with humanoid appearance and an almost human mind.

So it's likely that some kryptis are just humanoid by pure chance and Eparch decided to make these the noble house leaders. Or by becoming more powerful, kryptis bodies reshape and become more... connected.

Peitha's dialogue also implies that they're all biologically related, since Cerus, Deimos, and Peitha were siblings, and Heitor is Peitha's cousin (and mate of Cerus? :eyes:). So that might have something to do with it too.

[AlPower.2476]

Also some of them as "common" kriptis are reskins of common enemies, such as kraits

Edited November 12, 2023 by AlPower.2476

[Ashantara.8731]

Just now, AlPower.2476 said:

Also some of them as "common" kriptis are reskins of common enemies, such as kraits

Pretty much all of them are, hence the frustration of not getting many new character models.

[Jaken.6801]

My personal grief is, that we not only see barely any other kryptis on "our side", but the ones we see are also the same models we already see all the time.

It would have been nice, if we would have seen at least some kind of village, or place that Peitra reigns. That we entered her part of the realm first, before jumping head first into a frontline away from everything.

The whole thing feels so feeble. I don't even know what our goal is on the first map. Okay that's not true. Since this is the last map, this will be our Dragon Stand/Gyala Delve/Charr Civil war/etc., which means the push to Eparch is the story of this map. One frontline, after the next. We won't get a real feel of how this place looks or feels. Same for it's inhabitants.

[Farohna.6247]

Have you seen all the humans in my home instance in Divinity's Reach?   👀

[Randulf.7614]

Some slight variation would be nice. Irja I understood though. Didn’t last long enough to me to realise she had a name 😂

 

[Ashantara.8731]

1 hour ago, Jaken.6801 said:

The whole thing feels so feeble. [...] Since this is the last map, this will be our Dragon Stand/Gyala Delve/Charr Civil war/etc., which means the push to Eparch is the story of this map. One frontline, after the next. We won't get a real feel of how this place looks or feels. Same for it's inhabitants.

Yes, I am afraid so. I had such high hopes for this release, hope of entering really diverse parts of this demon realm that had different flavors. Not sure an "updated" map can provide that.

Skywatch Archipelago did such a great job at delivering different flavors on a single map, though, so perhaps we'll get lucky after all.

[draxynnic.3719]

9 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

The "common demons" look like they are being Eparch's snack bar, considering all the missing body parts. 😄

Ramses is not a footsoldier, though, AFAIK.

He's of the same 'type' as one of the footsoldier types - and as I said previously, this helps to establish that the rank and file are sapient, not just the leaders.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

5 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Pretty much all of them are, hence the frustration of not getting many new character models.

It's hilarious how people whine about that now, but when Nightfall came out and all demons were models using old rigging there too (technically, the kryptis aren't reskins since they have all new models, but they use old rigging).

It's kind of a piece of lore that demons are built off of templates of other beings.

Though I find Sorrow, the wyvern retexture, to be rather lazy. Not only does the celestial + Kanaxai-styled orange stripes clash horribly, but they didn't even make a new model for the enemy, just retextured it, so it has all the same proportions as a mordrem wyvern.

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

He's of the same 'type' as one of the footsoldier types - and as I said previously, this helps to establish that the rank and file are sapient, not just the leaders.

Technically, no, because Ramses uses one of the High Kryptis models. Kryptis are seemingly divided into three groups: Lower Kryptis, High Kryptis, and Nobles.

Ramses is a High Kryptis - an avatar of envy - and only the Lower Kryptis are "foot soldiers". Only the "Nobles" have solid bodies by all indication thus far (I haven't finished Through the Veil though so may be wrong there).

2 hours ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Yes, I am afraid so. I had such high hopes for this release, hope of entering really diverse parts of this demon realm that had different flavors. Not sure an "updated" map can provide that.

Skywatch Archipelago did such a great job at delivering different flavors on a single map, though, so perhaps we'll get lucky after all.

Sounds like your hopes well exceeded the realistic standards, if you were expecting large scale diversity in 1/3rd of a map.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Trejgon.9367]

7 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Though I find Sorrow, the wyvern retexture, to be rather lazy. Not only does the celestial + Kanaxai-styled orange stripes clash horribly, but they didn't even make a new model for the enemy, just retextured it, so it has all the same proportions as a mordrem wyvern.

to be fair I would have never noticed that myself, because most of the time I barely see the thing, and I already have all other players effects turned off. The thing itself generates enough screen noise that I do not see a crap of it outside of it being somewhat wyvernishly-shaped.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

On 11/11/2023 at 2:28 PM, Ashantara.8731 said:

I don't know. If the next "expansion" has the same low standard of zero variety in map population across the maps, it will definitely be the last one I would buy.

And that's the thing. 

I would argue that the majority of players either doesn't care or doesn't know. 

It's absolutely your right to decide if you are OK with it. Just saying that it most likely won't effect profit at all. 

 

[Eekasqueak.7850]

8 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

It's hilarious how people whine about that now, but when Nightfall came out and all demons were models using old rigging there too (technically, the kryptis aren't reskins since they have all new models, but they use old rigging).

It's kind of a piece of lore that demons are built off of templates of other beings.

Though I find Sorrow, the wyvern retexture, to be rather lazy. Not only does the celestial + Kanaxai-styled orange stripes clash horribly, but they didn't even make a new model for the enemy, just retextured it, so it has all the same proportions as a mordrem wyvern.

Technically, no, because Ramses uses one of the High Kryptis models. Kryptis are seemingly divided into three groups: Lower Kryptis, High Kryptis, and Nobles.

Ramses is a High Kryptis - an avatar of envy - and only the Lower Kryptis are "foot soldiers". Only the "Nobles" have solid bodies by all indication thus far (I haven't finished Through the Veil though so may be wrong there).

Sounds like your hopes well exceeded the realistic standards, if you were expecting large scale diversity in 1/3rd of a map.

Heck GW1 had monsters using most of the same abilities/classes as players too. 

[Trejgon.9367]

3 hours ago, Eekasqueak.7850 said:

Heck GW1 had monsters using most of the same abilities/classes as players too. 

And people praised it for that 🙂

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

10 hours ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

to be fair I would have never noticed that myself, because most of the time I barely see the thing, and I already have all other players effects turned off. The thing itself generates enough screen noise that I do not see a crap of it outside of it being somewhat wyvernishly-shaped.

Honestly that's some of the issue because it felt like half of the screen noise was its own texture.

[Kalavier.1097]

20 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

It's hilarious how people whine about that now, but when Nightfall came out and all demons were models using old rigging there too (technically, the kryptis aren't reskins since they have all new models, but they use old rigging).

It's kind of a piece of lore that demons are built off of templates of other beings.

Peitha literally comments on how that area of  Nayos we are in is "copied from other worlds" and "Dramatic" So it's not just the demons, but their world they've yoinked from various realms.