Necro staff marks unblockable too much of an advantage?

[Sovarica.4368]

What do you guys think of Necro staff unblockable trait is it me or does it seem like it's just too powerful and has no drawbacks or cool downs it seems like the game loses a lot of strategy trying to duel or team fight, to me unblockables should be something you really have to plan things out and read the opponent not just have a trait that gives you perma unblockables combined with short cool downs on skills that use them. It's kinda one of the things that break the PvP immersion when you're trying to gauge the duel and here comes four sets of infinite unblockables which feels cheap. I'm just saying this because Necro just seems to do everything too well and they need to throw a bone to players who want to counter Nec with some rewarding strategy and fair and square fights by maybe adding some sort of cool down. I would rather they give Necs more lifeforce than to deal with an onslaught of unblocks. I don't know if I'm the only one who thinks this maybe I'm wrong about it and haven't looked into it deeper

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Nah, it's not unblockables. Necro in general has received a great deal of stat boost since SOTO release. It just has seriously jacked up numbers right now.

[Gamble.4580]

Neco is strong rn but its not broken i am a necro main and understand its getting them number rn but its still as easy to kill. So its balanced 

[arazoth.7290]

3 hours ago, Sovarica.4368 said:

What do you guys think of Necro staff unblockable trait is it me or does it seem like it's just too powerful and has no drawbacks or cool downs it seems like the game loses a lot of strategy trying to duel or team fight, to me unblockables should be something you really have to plan things out and read the opponent not just have a trait that gives you perma unblockables combined with short cool downs on skills that use them. It's kinda one of the things that break the PvP immersion when you're trying to gauge the duel and here comes four sets of infinite unblockables which feels cheap. I'm just saying this because Necro just seems to do everything too well and they need to throw a bone to players who want to counter Nec with some rewarding strategy and fair and square fights by maybe adding some sort of cool down. I would rather they give Necs more lifeforce than to deal with an onslaught of unblocks. I don't know if I'm the only one who thinks this maybe I'm wrong about it and haven't looked into it deeper

staff is more for poking then actual damage + some utility same time and ofcourse lifeforce generation. If necro would be strong, it isn't staff unblockable fault.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

On 11/15/2023 at 1:06 AM, arazoth.7290 said:

staff is more for poking then actual damage + some utility same time and ofcourse lifeforce generation. If necro would be strong, it isn't staff unblockable fault.

Well, no, staff does a bit more than just "poking". If it was on me the unblockable from trait should be removed entirely because an entire weaponset being unblockable (with all the same animations too, so you can't really know what to dodge) is a joke, but the boon corrupt should come back too. And make either one of the marks unblockable baseline would make sense.

Edited November 19, 2023 by Terrorhuz.4695

[arazoth.7290]

58 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Well, no, staff does a bit more than just "poking". If it was on me the unblockable from trait should be removed entirely because an entire weaponset being unblockable (with all the same animations too, so you can't really know what to dodge) is a joke, but the boon corrupt should come back too.

damage aint massive either, so not much of a problem

[Spellhunter.9675]

1 hour ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

(with all the same animations too, so you can't really know what to dodge)

Fear mark has different animation.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

3 hours ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

Fear mark has different animation.

Yeah I'm also kinda worried about the stupidly long unblockable chilled and the putrid mark which erases some 30% of my HP bar, tyvm

Edited November 15, 2023 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

If there is a problem with Necros, then it isn't this trait.

[Spellhunter.9675]

1 hour ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Yeah I'm also kinda worried about the stupidly long unblockable chilled and the putrid mark which erases some 30% of my HP bar, tyvm

Use distortion

[Terrorhuz.4695]

11 minutes ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

Use distortion

You're missing the point, warhorn lost the unblockable (where it would actually make sense to have a dedicated rupt tool), but devs keep it on staff which is an entire weaponset much stronger than warhorn and all of their individual skills are unblockable, what the kitten is the intended goal here? I don't have a problem with specs bypassing blocks, so long as there's some amount of skill required.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Spellhunter.9675]

1 minute ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

You're missing the point, warhorn lost the unblockable (where it would actually make sense to have a dedicated rupt tool) and keep it on staff which is an entire weaponset much stronger than warhorn and all of their individual skills are unblockable, what the kitten is the point?

Warhorn is unblockable again. 
My point is gw2 is full of stupid balance decisions. Your build either have some to be competitive or it is out of meta.
There is also a shout which makes next 10 attacks unblocable on 16 sec cd.

[Avatar.3568]

i think it should be baseline ngl, you can't play staff without the traitline

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

38 minutes ago, Avatar.3568 said:

i think it should be baseline ngl, you can't play staff without the traitline

Agreed, the actual damage from marks isn't that great, they can still be evaded too. Staff isn't winning fights by itself, it's effectively an offensive support weapon for area denial. You're not destroying anyone with it, without support from your team. There are plenty of other potential issues to discuss and fix with way higher priority than this.

[Gamble.4580]

Condi reaper dont use the traitline tho. They loose a stun brake to have unblockable shout. Its a fare trade. 

[Frequency.6407]

If you have issues with necro staff then you should be worrying about much bigger problems.

[Last Crab.6054]

the dumbest players of GW2 flock to gw2(necros), so no, it is not and advantage. 

maybe it is Anet's idea of equity.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Last Crab.6054

[SleepyBat.9034]

On 11/15/2023 at 9:18 AM, Avatar.3568 said:

i think it should be baseline ngl, you can't play staff without the traitline

I do it all the time without issues, wdym?

[Swagg.9236]

Reason why necro marks are stupid in order of precedence:

=== LEAST AWFUL, BUT STILL TRASH ==

• The "mark" """skill type""" has no synergy with anything; skill types in general across the whole game have no real purpose beyond service as parasitic game elements that require one-dimensional, passive buffs in order to be "viable" (bad fundamental design; no changes to gameplay aside from "bigger number/freebie bonus," and this design directly impedes interactive engagement between players in combat)

== ALRIGHT, THIS IS PRETTY BAD ==

• Necro has a trait to make marks unblockable; nobody can tell if a necro has the trait equipped or not despite how an entire weapon set magically gaining the "unblockable" effect is completely game-changing
• The mark skills all have single-strike effects with no lingering field presence, and then they also have comparatively super-long cooldowns.  I understand that GW2 is full of this "design," but that doesn't make it good; in fact, it leads to the absolute hot garbuglio section:

== ABSOLUTE HOT GARBUGLIO ==

• To counteract the fact that necro staff is 5 buttons with single-hit effects with comparatively (oppressively) long recharge times, their damage and effect numbers got buffed into the stratosphere instead of redesigned into something better because it's GW2 lmao
• 1200 range + 240 radius AoE strikes = targets can take damage while the user is off-screen
• Even if a player sees a necro casting marks, there is no way to tell which mark the necro is casting because EVERY SINGLE MARK has an identical cast-time and user animation
• Even if a player sees a necro approaching with a staff out, there is more or less no way to mitigate the marks without burning dodges or cooldown resources because the necro has an effective 1440 range (which will outrange everyone easily aside from maybe teleport spamming ranged attackers or ranger longbow; therefore, things devolve into a build vs build issue rather than reliance on skill, positioning and gamesense).

Everyone is still going to get super fanny flustered about this comment because "necro isn't metaaaaa" or something.  It doesn't have to be "meta" to be designed like absolute trash; and bad designs can very easily receive buffs until they will somewhat consistently get cheap, easy kills against a suite of builds.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Swagg.9236

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

Necro has two ways to make staff unblockable. First is Soulreaping traitline, which guarantees a necro to be squishy and an easy target in teamfights. Second is reapers shout, which is potentially a little too strong, but you lose another stunbreak, so I'd call it a fair trade.

Necros boon corrupts got completely gutted. They need some type of mechanic to deal with tanks and makes them viable. If they didnt have unblockables, the class would be complete dog water. 

[Gamble.4580]

On 11/17/2023 at 3:24 AM, Last Crab.6054 said:

the dumbest players of GW2 flock to gw2(necros), so no, it is not and advantage. 

maybe it is Anet's idea of equity.

To say the dumbest is a sily statement. If u are new necro is the smartest class to play as its easy to understand a geeat safe class to learn pvp. So i would say its smart to play it when new and its smart to play it when u are good as a good necro is great to have.

[Dadnir.5038]

Honestly, they can remove the unblockable effect from the trait. The main purpose of taking the trait has always been LF gen anyway.

[arazoth.7290]

What also could be 🤷

Remove soul reaping unblockable trait on staff for marks. => staff skill 3 + 5 get unblockable baked in it by default which generates also some lifeforce.

 

•Staff skill 2 mark of blood: 

Each enemy target who triggers it gets currently 2 bleed stacks and regen boon to allies in radius.

Add ontop this, each enemy (max 5) who triggers the mark gets a 1 second pulsing 240 radius aoe around himself. This pulsing effect gives 1 stack of bleed to enemies in that radius and regen boon to allies.

 

•Staff skill 3 mark of chillblains: 

Each enemy target who triggers it gets currently 2 poison stacks and chilled condi.

Add ontop this, each enemy (max 5) who triggers the mark gets a 1 second pulsing 240 radius aoe around himself. This pulsing effect gives 1 stack of poison to enemies in that radius + another blast combo finisher it in the already existing poison field.

Edited November 20, 2023 by arazoth.7290

[NecroSummonsMors.7816]

No, it is not too much of an advantage considering the current meta and recent changes.

If you try to use staff without that trait( Soul Marks) it sucks completely. Staff fear mark is already hard to use considering the amount of stability there's around and the massive nerf to corruptions, now add to that blocks on classes that can wreck a full shroud in matter of few seconds, you now see necessity of an unblockable interrupt like Reaper's mark(5). Also consider this: staff auto attack is horrible dmg and unreliable, mark of blood(2) is barely any dmg on condi builds, but it is true that chillblains(3) is a good skill and so is Putrid mark(4).

If you removed unblockable trait you now would have only 2 out 5 useful skills on a weapon. Consider also that if you are on a power build, no mark (except 4) or autoattack is any good power dmg, so you use staff as utility weapon for 2 skills Putrid Mark 4 and fear mark 5, which if not unblockable would make staff useless.

Staff needs a rework, it has been years and still is a utility weapon. Fixing staff is not that hard. First of all let me say this: aoe unblockable dmg skill is never a good idea, so I propose the following changes:

- make fear mark unblockable baseline, all other marks lose unblockable, so staff keeps the crucial unblockable utility needed for necros to survive

- each mark gets to keep the 3% life force gain

- speed up autoattack projectile travel and adjust tracking

- scale the dmg of the mark of blood better for power build and do the same for condi build only if u pick the new trait

- delete Soul Marks trait, create a new one that completely shifts the auto attack from a power one to a condi one like scepter. 1 bleed stack per autoattack, with almost 0 power dmg so cele builds cannot get best of both worlds, and mark of blood gets no power component but a better condi version

- adjust the animations to make it more visible which mark is being casted

This changes if properly calibrated should make staff much better by forcing a choice between power or condi builds, while reducing unblockable aoe dmg and still maintain the utility of fear mark in this meta

edit: errors and clarity

Edited November 19, 2023 by NecroSummonsMors.7816

[geist.4126]

I think it's completely ridiculous to cry about staff unblockables of necros, when basically all new elite specs have passive unblockables that actually deal damage.