Any one else noticed the rise in lazy participation through the use of skyscale fireball?

[Smurfiness.3714]

Thanks to the OP announcing the use of skyscale fireball lots more people are using it. Especially for the new bonus 20 slot event. 

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

12 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

This looks way too vague to me. Please elaborate.

If you're trying to suggest that any player killing mobs in lower level zones -when there's a lvl scaling system in place- is somehow doing it "to grief" instead of doing it "to play the game and complete the events/zones" then that's a huge reach that's most probably completely false most of the time.

Well, it seems I give the average GW2 more credit than you do, since you're implying that they are unaware of the oneshot mechanic of the raptor dismount in starter maps and how it's unfavorable to low level characters. What I am suggesting is that they are aware but just don't care. Any GW2 player who's ever levelled a character from 1 to 80 knows that the level scaling system in low level maps is far from accurate, since it's more than level that decides the power of your attack. A level 80 character does much more damage than a level 10 character in a starter map, in spite of scaling. Besides, some people are actually assertive and speak out in say or map chat. You'd practically have to play blindfolded (or extremely dim) to not be aware of it.

By the way, you do realize that your response is doing the exact same thing you say I was doing in my post you responded to, right? Just because you argue in the opposite direction doesn't make it more true. My proof might be anecdotal, but I've seen plenty of what I have described above happening in starter maps. In this age of individualism this kind of egoism is quite common, sadly. Every community has rotten apples. GW2 is no exception.

Edited November 23, 2023 by TheNecrosanct.4028
Spelling

[ShadowCatz.8437]

On 11/21/2023 at 9:57 PM, Farohna.6247 said:

Haven't really noticed this being a huge problem, any more than the people who just stand around for Pinata, don't help during Dragonstorm, etc.  There are always leeches and people who put out minimum effort.  At least they're doing some damage.  

Mostly I see riders, including myself, come up and spit a few fireballs on bosses then dismount.  It's great fun, it knocks out a few annoying mobs, and then on to normal dps on foot.  

For those out there spending an entire fight on skyscale, may you be one shotted by some random npc, fall to the ground, and have a slow load screen for rez, then have to run all the way back.  Be nice, help out. 

For what it is worth I prefer Skyscales Fireballs then have to deal with Turtle army that are blocking my view for what is going on ground around bosses during larger events. Fireballs help to do nice damage before dismount which adds a firefield, so both type of damage (as it is a condition damage) will also add up while you use your normal skill dismounted.

As with all new "toys" you will find that players will use them in every situation that is possible in game until they get tired of playing around or find new toys to play with...like I don't see Turtle mount being used as much as where just before SoTO where released.

[Sobx.1758]

44 minutes ago, TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

Well, it seems I give the average GW2 more credit than you do, since you're implying that they are unaware of the oneshot mechanic of the raptor dismount in starter maps and how it's unfavorable to low level characters. What I am suggesting is that they are aware but just don't care. Any GW2 player who's ever levelled a character from 1 to 80 knows that the level scaling system in low level maps is far from accurate, since it's more than level that decides the power of your attack. A level 80 character does much more damage than a level 10 character in a starter map, in spite of scaling. Besides, some people are actually assertive and speak out in say or map chat. You'd practically have to play blindfolded (or extremely dim) to not be aware of it.

By the way, you do realize that your response is doing the exact same thing you say I was doing in my post you responded to, right? Just because you argue in the opposite direction doesn't make it more true. My proof might be anecdotal, but I've seen plenty of what I have described above happening in starter maps. In this age of individualism this kind of egoism is quite common, sadly. Every community has rotten apples. GW2 is no exception.

Are you giving the average gw2 player "more credit" than I do though? Don't think so, seeing how you're suggesting that those players do it somehow out of spite instead of doing it because of the mobility and ease of getting participation in the event by using those mounts in those zones. Those players aren't doing it "so you can't get participation", they're doing it because that's the option they have available.

But, again, if you think -similarly to the person I initially responded to- "using mounts in low lvl zones is bad because those players don't think about other players wanting to get participation" then it's equally bad to "hover on the skyscale spamming 2 in high level zones to get participation while other players need to deal actual meaningful damage to finish the event".
"The intent" here boils down to the exact same thing: convenience of the user themselves. If one is bad then so is the other.

Edited November 23, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[kiroho.4738]

On 11/21/2023 at 8:33 AM, flawedfox.1409 said:

I'm specifically calling out people chilling off the the side somewhere basically AFK using fireball the entire fight to damage enough in order to gain reward.

With Skyscale at least you have to use a skill regularly.
I mean, when it comes to leeching, look at boon Herald, turret Engi and minion Necro.

Look back to Halloween. Squads were full of Heralds doing nothing but pulsing their boons, letting other people do the work.

[Farohna.6247]

2 hours ago, ShadowCatz.8437 said:

For what it is worth I prefer Skyscales Fireballs then have to deal with Turtle army that are blocking my view for what is going on ground around bosses during larger events. Fireballs help to do nice damage before dismount which adds a firefield, so both type of damage (as it is a condition damage) will also add up while you use your normal skill dismounted.

As with all new "toys" you will find that players will use them in every situation that is possible in game until they get tired of playing around or find new toys to play with...like I don't see Turtle mount being used as much as where just before SoTO where released.

A mixture of turtles and skyscales is kind of nice just so they're broken up a bit from the blob lol.  I love using the fire field as you described!  Also when I'm rushing to get to a rift, it's great to have a long range fireball so I can hit kryptis before it is time to close the rift and have time to get there.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

3 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

But, again, if you think -similarly to the person I initially responded to- "using mounts in low lvl zones is bad because those players don't think about other players wanting to get participation" then it's equally bad to "hover on the skyscale spamming 2 in high level zones to get participation while other players need to deal actual meaningful damage to finish the event".
"The intent" here boils down to the exact same thing: convenience of the user themselves. If one is bad then so is the other.

But he said in the lower lvl you can use Skysale fireball to 1-shot mobs.

While in the high end you simply stay up and fire them and the fellow player have plenty of time hit it also

 

In the first scenario is bad , so we just nerf the scalling in the lowe lvls

We dont take away the fun from both scenarios  

Edited November 23, 2023 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

3 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Are you giving the average gw2 player "more credit" than I do though? Don't think so, seeing how you're suggesting that those players do it somehow out of spite instead of doing it because of the mobility and ease of getting participation in the event by using those mounts in those zones. Those players aren't doing it "so you can't get participation", they're doing it because that's the option they have available.

But, again, if you think -similarly to the person I initially responded to- "using mounts in low lvl zones is bad because those players don't think about other players wanting to get participation" then it's equally bad to "hover on the skyscale spamming 2 in high level zones to get participation while other players need to deal actual meaningful damage to finish the event".
"The intent" here boils down to the exact same thing: convenience of the user themselves. If one is bad then so is the other.

Is everything black and white to you?

Yes, I do give them more credit, in the intelligence department. I do believe more people are aware that oneshotting mobs with mounts in starter maps is a disadvantage for low level players than not. I wasn't crediting their motivation. Also, just because something is an option doesn't necessarily mean it's a good or decent thing. I also am not arguing they do it out of spite. That is your spin. My argument is they do it out of selfishness, simply not caring how it affects others. In other words, not malice but indifference. That's intent.

Yes, both are more than likely out of convenience to the one doing it. That's not the problem, though. The problem is the effect it has on others. High level mobs aren't oneshot with a fireball, so people on the ground still have the opportunity to tag mobs. Low level mobs, on the other hand, are and that consequently takes away the opportunity for those on the ground to tag those mobs. One thing can be inconsequential in one scenario and consequential in another. That's context.

Now do you understand? And I'm asking whether you understand the argumentation, not whether you agree with it, because from your previous replies it is clear that wasn't the case.

[Ashen.2907]

2 minutes ago, TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

Is everything black and white to you?

Yes, I do give them more credit, in the intelligence department. I do believe more people are aware that oneshotting mobs with mounts in starter maps is a disadvantage for low level players than not. I wasn't crediting their motivation. Also, just because something is an option doesn't necessarily mean it's a good or decent thing. I also am not arguing they do it out of spite. That is your spin. My argument is they do it out of selfishness, simply not caring how it affects others. In other words, not malice but indifference. That's intent.

Yes, both are more than likely out of convenience to the one doing it. That's not the problem, though. The problem is the effect it has on others. High level mobs aren't oneshot with a fireball, so people on the ground still have the opportunity to tag mobs. Low level mobs, on the other hand, are and that consequently takes away the opportunity for those on the ground to tag those mobs. One thing can be inconsequential in one scenario and consequential in another. That's context.

Now do you understand? And I'm asking whether you understand the argumentation, not whether you agree with it, because from your previous replies it is clear that wasn't the case.

He was originally responding to someone who WAS claiming that people were doing it out of spite.

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

5 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

He was originally responding to someone who WAS claiming that people were doing it out of spite.

Then they should pay attention to who they are responding to. Though it should be clear to them now that I am not that other person.

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

But he said in the lower lvl you can use Skysale fireball to 1-shot mobs.

No, this whole comment started from someone saying it's griefing, so... maybe you didn't pay attention.

_________________________

 

25 minutes ago, TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

Is everything black and white to you?

Not sure where this came from? Not everything is black and white, but in this case the justification and reasoning behind these two situations is the same and boils down to nothing else than the convenience of the person who uses the mount -as I already explained in previous posts.

25 minutes ago, TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

Yes, I do give them more credit

As I said, I don't think you do them more credit because you just assume malice. If you assume that from the players in low level zones, you should do the same in regards of people who do that in high level zones. Because why exactly not?

25 minutes ago, TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

Also, just because something is an option doesn't necessarily mean it's a good or decent thing.

I agree, but I'm not sure how that changes or addresses what I said. If anything, that was part of the point I was making in an answer to people who said that "it's ok because it's in the game" (when it comes to hovering and pressing 2 on skyscale for easy/lazy participation on bosses).

25 minutes ago, TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

My argument is they do it out of selfishness, simply not caring how it affects others. In other words, not malice but indifference. That's intent.

And people safely hovering above the boss, scaling event, while dealing low overal dmg with few fireballs... don't do it out of selfishness for easy rewards with minimal effort? I'm honestly baffled how you don't see that both of these examples are based on the same motivation. Which, again, is nothing else than those players' own convenience.

25 minutes ago, TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

Yes, both are more than likely out of convenience to the one doing it. That's not the problem, though. The problem is the effect it has on others. High level mobs aren't oneshot with a fireball, so people on the ground still have the opportunity to tag mobs. Low level mobs, on the other hand, are and that consequently takes away the opportunity for those on the ground to tag those mobs. One thing can be inconsequential in one scenario and consequential in another. That's context.

Scaling events while dealing miniscule damage and then (actually also during pressing 2) semiafking in the air very clearly has an effect on everyone else, the whole event takes that much longer and rides on the backs of people who actually actively play the game. I think that's the bit of context you're missing here -you apparently think that someone leeching/"lazy participation" isn't affecting anyone. But it is.

Edited November 23, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

8 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

No, this whole comment started from someone saying it's griefing, so... maybe you didn't pay attention.

_________________________

He said that people on shot other mobs , because they want to grief

And you went out of context , saying that  1shoting mobs in lower ends and spamming 1 in the highe end is the same problem , that we cannot have both 

 

While the poster problem was the 1-sjotng , something that you cannot do in the high end

Edited November 23, 2023 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Sobx.1758]

20 minutes ago, TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

Then they should pay attention to who they are responding to. Though it should be clear to them now that I am not that other person.

At no point it was unclear to me that you're not that person I initially responded to. But you "jumped in" in the middle of the comment chain and directly responded to what I asked. I'm not sure I should suddenly instantly drop the context of what you were answering there.

This is the exact moment you joined, take a note what you've quoted:

 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

4 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

 

But, again, if you think -similarly to the person I initially responded to- "using mounts in low lvl zones is bad because those players don't think about other players wanting to get participation" then it's equally bad to "hover on the skyscale spamming 2 in high level zones to get participation while other players need to deal actual meaningful damage to finish the event".
"The intent" here boils down to the exact same thing: convenience of the user themselves. If one is bad then so is the other.

Higher end dosnt need the nerf , because they cannot 1shot

Edited November 23, 2023 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

He said that people on shot other mobs , because they want to grief

I know exactly what he said, no worries.
And that is baseless. Most people doing it did it because there was an event in those zones and they wanted quick convenient participation to get out of there asap NOT "because they went the to grief".

Edited November 23, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Ashen.2907]

5 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

He said that people on shot other mobs , because they want to grief

And you went out of context , saying that  1shoting mobs in lower ends and spamming 1 in the highe end is the same problem , that we cannot have both 

 

While the poster problem was the 1-sjotng , something that you cannot do in the high end

Which is still not griefing. 

And, someone purposefully acting in a manner that scales the encounter up without pulling the weight created by that scaling is affecting others.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

5 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I know exactly what he said, no worries.
And that is baseless. Most people doing it did it because there was an event in those zones and they wanted quick convenient participation to get out of there asap NOT "because they went the to grief".

Then we nerf the 1shot at the lower lvls , in order to fix the riefing 

 

Spamming Fireball1  in high end , is something irevelant from that problem 

 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Sobx.1758]

4 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

Then we nerf the 1shot at the lower lvls , in order to fix the riefing

You're failing to address why one deserves the nerf and the other doesn't. I'm fine either way, but if you want to nerf it in lower zones then I see no reason not to nerf it in higher zones so you can't get participation on bosses by just pressing 2 on them while hovering on the skyscales. If you want to do one, do both, because as already explained over and over again, these actions have the same motivation behind them.

If you still won't have anything to say about the previous posts where I already explained that, I'm done with quoting you, just a heads-up. 🤷‍♂️

Edited November 23, 2023 by Sobx.1758

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

3 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

You're failing to address why one deserves the nerf and the other doesn't. I'm fine either way, but if you want to nerf it in lower zones then I see no reason not to nerf it in higher zones so you can't get participation on bosses by just pressing 2 on them while hovering on the skyscales. If you want to do one, do both, because as already explained over and over again, these actions have the same motivation behind them.

If you still won't have anything to say about the previous posts where I already explained it, I'm done with quoting you, just a heads-up. 🤷‍♂️ 

hmmm 

Because in lower lvl you 1shot  ?

While in the high end the mobs will keep running and keep reseting ?

Edited November 23, 2023 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Sobx.1758]

It's not about high lvl zone "mobs", it's about boss events, make sure to read the posts you're trying to respond to.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

3 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

It's not about high lvl zone "mobs", it's about boss events, make sure to read the posts you're trying to respond to.

Analyze the problem

In the one case you have something that can one shot , mobs and you can be a kiteen and deny other people to have the participation.

In other case you Skyscale fireball does , how much ? 30% of the hp of the mobs , allowing other people to hit it also ? 

 

How these corelatates to both needing to get nerfed ?

Edited November 23, 2023 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Ashen.2907]

4 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

hmmm 

Because in lower lvl you 1shot  ?

While in the high end the mobs will keep running and keep reseting ?

Mobs respawn in lower level zones.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

Just now, Ashen.2907 said:

Mobs respawn in lower level zones.

yes

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

Analyze the problem

In the one case you have something that can one shot , mobs and you can be a kiteen and deny other people to have the participation.

In other case you Skyscale fireball does , how much ? 30% of the hp of the mobs , allowing other people to hit it also ? 

 

How these corelatates to both needing to get nerfed ?

I already explained that in my previous posts, so just read them and, umm, maybe come back then.

[Ashen.2907]

Just now, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

yes

Exactly.

So there is no difference between mobs resetting (as you put it) in higher level zones and mobs doing the same in lower level zones.

Thank you.