Axe rework because swords decided to happen.

[Treetoptrickster.4205]

I might have a bias towards this, because I've always really wanted axe to work for my otherwise condi focused scourge, but now's the time to make my case. 

Now that swords pretty much stole the ranged power damage mainhand weapon role from axe, I wanted to rehash an idea I had long ago about making axe a semi melee, sort of hybrid weapon. A melee condi weapon is one of the things necro currently lacks. Scepter and pistol are ranged condi, dagger I guess takes the role of melee power damage, so why not make axe a mid ranged hybrid weapon? When I say mid ranged, I mean pretty much the same as the new revenant scepter, maybe like 600. Anywho here's my attempt that totally isn't geared towards scourge.

Skill 1:

Rending Claws - Swipe at foes in a cone in front of you with ghastly claws, inflicting torment (x1 4s). 3 targets.

Sundering Claws - Swipe at foes again, inflicting torment (x1 4s). 3 targets.

Harrowing Claws - Swipe at foes in a cone in front of you twice, applying vulnerability (x2 10s), and ripping a boon from foes. Applies torment (x1 10s) to enemies that lose a boon, or are below the health threshold. 3 targets.

Skill 2: Haunting Frenzy - Rapidly swipe at foes in a cone in front of you (6 times), applying torment (3s) and gaining lifeforce each hit. Boonless enemies, or those below the health threshold, take more damage and bleed (3s). 3 targets per swipe.

Skill 3: Unholy Feast - Strike nearby enemies, crippling (3s) and weakening them (3s), and gaining barrier per foe struck. Boonless enemies, or those below the health threshold, are immobilized (2s), and are tormented (x3 4s). 5 targets.

 

[KrHome.1920]

Axe itself makes sense and so does dagger.

Sword cannibalized axe and dagger and yet is still weirdly designed and I guess only few people expected what we got from ANet. Instead of giving us a melee condi (or better: hybrid) weapon we got another mid range power weapon that is medicore at everything and excels at nothing. Not to mention that the leap does not make any sense on a ranged weapon and should have been added to dagger instead years ago.

[Dadnir.5038]

3 hours ago, KrHome.1920 said:

I guess only few people expected what we got from ANet.

It's not that it was unexepected as the devs are known to always give us more of the same. It's just that our hopes made us lose sight of the possibility.

As for axe, I'm already sick of the overused torment condition so I'm totally against the suggestion. 

[Ariurotl.3718]

Axe's main advantage is being a ranged weapon that isn't shooting projectiles and is therefore immune to projectile hate. I certainly wouldn't want to trade that for what you're suggesting.

Unless dual swords work the same way. I wouldn't know cause I haven't touched the beta.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Ariurotl.3718

[Equinox.4195]

I like Axe 2 and 3, it's just a problem that axe 1 exists in its current state. I don't want to see a short-range cone because that would defeat the purpose of axe as a 900 (600 for Axe 3) range power weapon. Rather, I would prefer if Axe 1 also damaged up to 4 other enemies around your target within 180 radius. Still only apply vulnerability. Necro has no need of another main-hand condi weapon, and 2 boonrips on a ranged auto attack chain is absurdly broken.

[Roadkizzle.2157]

4 hours ago, Equinox.4195 said:

I like Axe 2 and 3, it's just a problem that axe 1 exists in its current state. I don't want to see a short-range cone because that would defeat the purpose of axe as a 900 (600 for Axe 3) range power weapon. Rather, I would prefer if Axe 1 also damaged up to 4 other enemies around your target within 180 radius. Still only apply vulnerability. Necro has no need of another main-hand condi weapon, and 2 boonrips on a ranged auto attack chain is absurdly broken.

Axe 2 is really no more than the third attack in a chain.

It really doesn't have enough differentiating it from Axe 1 to justify being a separate skill.

 

 

[Equinox.4195]

17 hours ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

Axe 2 is really no more than the third attack in a chain.

It really doesn't have enough differentiating it from Axe 1 to justify being a separate skill.

 

 

You can certainly make the claim that it isn't an interesting skill, but saying it doesn't differentiate itself enough from Axe 1 is like saying Hundred Blades doesn't differentiate itself enough from the GS 1 on Warrior. Ghastly Claws is a single-target burst skill with life force generation and has a unique animation. Sounds like a lot of second ability skills on weapons. I don't see a problem with these abilities existing because sometimes it's good to have simple but effective abilities. Especially for new players.

 

I thought about this idea once that Axe 2 could deal 4% of its damage in an AoE around the target for each stack of vulnerability on the target(up to 100% at 25 stacks of vuln, obviously), but I kind of prefer axe 2 just existing as single-target burst.

[Obtena.7952]

The suggestion has many similarities to pistol and even mimics some of it's own proposed skills. Redundant skills, similar effects, some stronger leaning to power at the expense of condi. Not much appeal. Hybrid weapons are a hard sell; there aren't much cross over opportunities to take advantage of. 

I don't see much point in reworking Axe if it's going to be redundant and do little to offer some interesting playstyle. The problem with Axe isn't sword coming in though. It's issue is that it is focused on a feature (stacking vuln) that isn't a compelling strategy. 

So, Axe rework? Appealing idea, as long as it's going to give us an interesting playstyle we don't already have. 

Edited December 7, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Equinox.4195]

Another idea if the devs don't want Axe 1 to feel impactful is to change the Spiteful Talisman trait so at least the other weapon skills take a more active role. Remove the flat 20% cooldown reduction.

Replace it with

"When you remove or corrupt a boon from an enemy, Axe and Focus skills partially recharge.

Recharge Reduced 20% 1 second

ICD 2s"

Edited December 9, 2023 by Equinox.4195
changed the recharge reduction and ICD to something more balanced in hindsight

[Dadnir.5038]

12 hours ago, Equinox.4195 said:

Another idea if the devs don't want Axe 1 to feel impactful is to change the Spiteful Talisman trait so at least the other weapon skills take a more active role. Remove the flat 20% cooldown reduction.

Replace it with

"When you remove or corrupt a boon from an enemy, Axe and Focus skills partially recharge.

Recharge Reduced 20%

ICD 2s"

What's the point of doing this exactly?

• You talk about axe1 and then produce a change to an effect that have nothing to do with axe1 into an effect that have nothing to do with axe1 either.
• ICD are bad design since they can't be reliably tracked by the player.
• CD reductions have already caused to many issues in the game. Untamed's fervent force wasn't removed on a whim, why would you bring something somewhat similar to the necromancer and think that, somehow, it's "alright" to do so?

[Equinox.4195]

On 12/8/2023 at 3:35 AM, Dadnir.5038 said:

What's the point of doing this exactly?

• You talk about axe1 and then produce a change to an effect that have nothing to do with axe1 into an effect that have nothing to do with axe1 either.
• ICD are bad design since they can't be reliably tracked by the player.
• CD reductions have already caused to many issues in the game. Untamed's fervent force wasn't removed on a whim, why would you bring something somewhat similar to the necromancer and think that, somehow, it's "alright" to do so?

I'm happy to clarify for you!

Like I said in my post, if the devs want to keep axe 1 underwhelming, then I suggested a trait change that would emphasize the 2 and 3 skills by recharging cooldowns based on a trigger.

The ICD isn't a bad design because the player isn't expected to track it. The ICD exists to prevent the trait from triggering multiple times in an instant.

I agree the version I suggested was obscene, so I changed it just now. In hindsight, a flat percentage reduction would make longer CD skills recharge too often so I changed it to only 1 second. The idea is to make axe feel like a more active weapon (without simply buffing the auto-attack) by filling a particular role. In this case, it's boon removal. Since boon removal is already thematic for axe/focus, it feels like a natural fit.

Thanks for your insight!