WvW Skirmish Claim Ticket system and requirement for Conflux.

[ArchonWing.9480]

20 minutes ago, MercurialKuroSludge.8974 said:

Coal can easily take far longer than 15 hours per week, people just don't typically see it all add up.

Yep. this is why a lot of these calculations need to be taken with a grain of salt. There's time spent making groups, and generally you cannot get up and leave freely in the middle of a raid. Well actually you can, but that's not going to make you many raiding buddies.

In WvW even that time can be used to farm pips.  Even if you are idling trying to form a squad or the raid ended, you can still put minimal effort to progress in the meantime.

You also need to invest in  more specific gear when it comes to doing raids as well while WvW has some gear requirements, it's very minimal.

And let's not forget the fact that you generally have to learn the raids too. The time spent learning is also not insignificant. You have to learn in WvW too, but in general the cost of entering a raid and not knowing what you're doing is much higher. The first and most obvious is just that you can wipe and thus grief your raid, and the other thing is doing so will get you tossed out (this is also not possible in WvW)

So most responsible beginners are going to do learning parties and they're not going to have those optimal farming rates.

Of course there will always be outliers eg. "I r best dpser ever I learned all the raids in 5 minutes", but to regard that as the norm is probably around 25 stacks of self inflicted confusion.

edit: I also think hard content needs  exceptional rewards or else people will feel their time is wasted. Dragon's End was brought up earlier, and while part of the problems   was the difficulty, the other thing I read is that people thought the rewards didn't justify the time and effort investment. And I felt inclined to agree. It wasn't really that hard and was sorta fun , but the rewards were pretty meh and I wouldn't want to do it on a regular basis. So it makes sense that raids have fast rewards or else why try so hard?

Edited December 13, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, Anasate.5408 said:

Not necessarily. WvW has merit, so it should have its own exclusive shiny reward for people who manage to excel at it, but the acquisition method should be symmetrical with the acquisition method of other game modes' exclusive shinies.

Yet you are so pinpoint focused on such a tiny part of the legendary materials you’re arguing the eqvivalent that WvW is unfair because it take 2% of the total time compared to 1% in PvE.

How long exactly do you think you would play only WvW if you start from no rank, 0 gold and 0 mats to build a legendary, any legendary, compared to PvE?

[Ashen.2907]

3 hours ago, Player.2475 said:

. A group of 5-10 can only really flip towers, and only undefended ones at that

This is incorrect.

[Chaba.5410]

And if we're honest, what is meant by "manage to excel at" WvW?  How is that measured?  You play 24 hours a day instead of 2?  It takes you an hour to cap a keep instead of 15 minutes?  Then great because the current structure has it's own exclusive rewards for players that put a lot more time into it!

Is it higher KDR?  You kill more players?  Then you get players win-trading for whatever the shiny is.  Most PvE-exclusive players lack this fundamental understanding of playing against other players, the incentivization of win-trading.  That's why rewards in WvW are participation/time-based.

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[Player.2475]

5 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

This is incorrect.

Okay, undefended SM too if there are enough holes from Durios trebbing it.

[ArchonWing.9480]

2 hours ago, Anasate.5408 said:

As if you're entitled to an answer when you're not even on topic.

Here's a tip. When you write something to the public, it's going to be subject to scrutiny. Especially links with zero elaboration.

You pointed out a fallacy (in other words, you made it about logical fallacies), and failed to specify which fallacy. And btw you still haven't. A formal fallacy refers to a broad range of different fallacies, so you have basically said "this is a planet" when asked about location.

I am certainly not entitled to an answer, but your answer already tells me enough. And of course, that post wasn't just for you. I am just breaking down some of the fallacies you are using for everyone else so the overall quality of discussion may improve for everyone , so feel free to withhold.  🙂

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[Ronin.4501]

Give me the option to do Aurora and Vision with the same minimal effort required of earning skirmish tickets (sitting at spawn and flipping a camp every 10 minutes) and we'll come back to this.

[Cyninja.2954]

6 hours ago, Anasate.5408 said:

This is a side effect of the current system which is affecting WvW fans. It should not be on the other players to make up for it, and Anet is wrong for doubling down on the flaw by skewing the reward system to incentivize otherwise unmotivated players to play longer hours per week in WvW. 

Ah but weren't you the one talking about fairness? 

The reward system in place is designed with specific unique aspects of this mode in mind, with some attention given to player activity and engagement over extended periods of time. 

How is it "fair" to change this to appeal to players from other game modes? Those unmotivated players are not the target audience.

Wouldn't it be far more fair for players from PvE to ask for an additional PvE legendary ring to be added instead of demanding the rewards in a different game mode be changed to their liking?

Also should the later be the case, are you seeing why so many disagree with your take?

Edited December 14, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Solvar.7953]

Not looking back through 7 pages of posts, but one way of cheesing claim tickets and getting more rewards each week:

Have an accurate clock or timer (something set to internet time).  At 15 seconds before each tick, enter WvW.  Then immediately switch maps.  You will now get the tick rewards.  Leave WvW, so participation does not decay.  Repeat as needed.  With this, one can go from 1 to 1.5 hours of getting rewards without actually needing to do anything in regard for participation - when you get to the point of participation getting low, capture a camp, or worse case, kill a veteran wolf/harpy/worm (which players ignore now because they are no longer dailies so are more likely to be there for the killing) will still get another 30-45 minute worth of tick rewards.

This probably isn't how Anet is wanting people to play the game, but they designed a time based reward system, they should figure people will use it.

Surfing the web or doing something else that is easy to take a 30 second break for the wvw reward and then resume is ideal.  If you have a gathering/farming with alt characters, hop in before each tick reset.  If you are spending a bit of time crafting, likewise hop in when you can.  This doesn't work when doing active OW content, but just about any other time, one can get some more rewards from it.

 

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, Solvar.7953 said:

Not looking back through 7 pages of posts, but one way of cheesing claim tickets and getting more rewards each week:

Have an accurate clock or timer (something set to internet time).  At 15 seconds before each tick, enter WvW.  Then immediately switch maps.  You will now get the tick rewards.  Leave WvW, so participation does not decay.  Repeat as needed.  With this, one can go from 1 to 1.5 hours of getting rewards without actually needing to do anything in regard for participation - when you get to the point of participation getting low, capture a camp, or worse case, kill a veteran wolf/harpy/worm (which players ignore now because they are no longer dailies so are more likely to be there for the killing) will still get another 30-45 minute worth of tick rewards.

This probably isn't how Anet is wanting people to play the game, but they designed a time based reward system, they should figure people will use it.

Surfing the web or doing something else that is easy to take a 30 second break for the wvw reward and then resume is ideal.  If you have a gathering/farming with alt characters, hop in before each tick reset.  If you are spending a bit of time crafting, likewise hop in when you can.  This doesn't work when doing active OW content, but just about any other time, one can get some more rewards from it.

 

Now imagine how many centuries you’d have to play WvW to get the gold and materials from scratch for a legendary doing it like that, lol.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

11 hours ago, Anasate.5408 said:

Do you have an argument in there somewhere or are you just typing words in an order that seems right to you? Yes, 6 hours for FC is a very sensible number which I got from my experience as a not terribly experienced raider. As Cyninja.2954 kindly pointed out, this is what my weekly clears look like. And yes, after doing the achievements you can just do the easy bosses. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to reiterate the fact that raid rewards are linear, which means the total hour investment doesn't go up no matter how many weekly resets it takes you. Even assuming you don't have guilds that can do full clears in that time, the difficulty among encounters is not homogenous, so if you only do the easy encounters, the total hour investment actually goes down, as opposed to WvW where taking the easy route makes the total hour investment go up. I didn't make this argument in my OP because it's very difficult to quantify, but since some people insist on bringing occult optimizations to the discussion table, there you go.

Yes, I have an argument, don't complain people bringing up how quick they finish their Skirmish chest, "bcause that's with hours put in" when your comparison is Guild FC on all Raid Wings.

You're complaining that it takes longer to get a Legendary that is entirely kittening soloable and only requires any form of activity every 10 minutes, because you're new to the game mode while you're using Coal as an example to something that is quicker, except, if you grab someone who has never done any Raids EVER or touched WvW which would they gravitate towards? The ring that requires proper gearing, 9 other players and hours of practice or the ring that requires you to just exist in a game mode?

The effort Conflux requires would earn you a kick in a minute from any Raid, so of course it takes longer.

Any complaint regarding something taking too long in WvW is just stupid, because unlike in PvE or PvP you barely need to try since WvW rewards you for anything barely above the "just exist" level. 

[Dawdler.8521]

32 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

The effort Conflux requires would earn you a kick in a minute from any Raid, so of course it takes longer.

With almost 10000 hours that’d be me too since my first question would be “WTF is LI?”

[joneirikb.7506]

Couldn't get myself to read through all the posts, but this just again proves to me that Legendaries is the most toxic thing in the entire game, and should be deleted.

[ArchonWing.9480]

7 hours ago, joneirikb.7506 said:

Couldn't get myself to read through all the posts, but this just again proves to me that Legendaries is the most toxic thing in the entire game, and should be deleted.

But why?

They're not even better than ascended, and if you don't WvW, there's like maybe 5 stats you may want if you want to needlessly minmax for mostly faceroll content and probably not even necessary if your group is organized enough.
Especially when it comes to rings. There are so many sources of ascended rings that legendaries are window dressings and as for appearance? What? Nobody cares how many balls you have.

And a few months is not a unreasonable request for a "long term" goal. I have a friend finishing their second conflux and they don't make gold every week, much less diamond lol. (Evidentially playing 10 hours to hasten your pip gain by 35% --bronze vs diamond --is a daft idea)

Edited December 14, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480

[joneirikb.7506]

Just now, ArchonWing.9480 said:

But why?

They're not even better than ascended, and if you don't WvW, there's like maybe 5 stats you may want if you want to needlessly minmax for mostly faceroll content and probably not even necessary if your group is organized enough.
Especially when it comes to rings. There are so many sources of ascended rings that legendaries are window dressings and as for appearance? What? Nobody cares how many balls you have.

And a few months is not a unreasonable request for a "long term" goal. I have a friend finishing their second conflux and they don't make gold every week, much less diamond lol. (Evidentially playing 10 hours to hasten your pip gain by 25% --bronze vs diamond --is a daft idea)

As in Legendaries is the aspect/design of GW2 that induces the most toxic behavior in the players.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Just now, joneirikb.7506 said:

As in Legendaries is the aspect/design of GW2 that induces the most toxic behavior in the players.

But isn't that proof they'd find something else to be toxic about if legendaries didn't exist? It would just shift over to be whatever the most "valuable" thing is.

The only solutions would be to either delete people, or delete items in general, and neither is viable.

Heck, there was that problem over ascended gear too in the past.

Regardless I don't think we should balance around the most degenerate and toxic elements of the player base. The current method of just having them yell at clouds and report/block has worked for quite a few years now.

[Sobx.1758]

On 12/12/2023 at 6:45 AM, Anasate.5408 said:

A negative feedback rewards system promotes responsible play time and caters to all player types, not just to enthusiasts of the game mode who also have a generous amount of play time at their disposal.

My dude really came out with an argument that the devs should want the players to play their mmorpg less.

Luckily the reward system isn't some "all of nothing" type of deal, so you can still do it even if you won't max out your tickets per week.

[Chaba.5410]

2 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

My dude really came out with an argument that the devs should want the players to play their mmorpg less.

Luckily the reward system isn't some "all of nothing" type of deal, so you can still do it even if you won't max out your tickets per week.

Ironically, the cap on tickets per week promotes that responsible play by introducing diminishing returns on playing longer.

[Player.2475]

15 hours ago, Solvar.7953 said:

Not looking back through 7 pages of posts, but one way of cheesing claim tickets and getting more rewards each week:

Have an accurate clock or timer (something set to internet time).  At 15 seconds before each tick, enter WvW.  Then immediately switch maps.  You will now get the tick rewards.  Leave WvW, so participation does not decay.  Repeat as needed.  With this, one can go from 1 to 1.5 hours of getting rewards without actually needing to do anything in regard for participation - when you get to the point of participation getting low, capture a camp, or worse case, kill a veteran wolf/harpy/worm (which players ignore now because they are no longer dailies so are more likely to be there for the killing) will still get another 30-45 minute worth of tick rewards.

This probably isn't how Anet is wanting people to play the game, but they designed a time based reward system, they should figure people will use it.

Surfing the web or doing something else that is easy to take a 30 second break for the wvw reward and then resume is ideal.  If you have a gathering/farming with alt characters, hop in before each tick reset.  If you are spending a bit of time crafting, likewise hop in when you can.  This doesn't work when doing active OW content, but just about any other time, one can get some more rewards from it.

 

I tried this when I started, but you do not get any rewards for the first tick you get in WvW. This also applies to disconnecting and immediately reconnecting or changing characters. You're extra unlucky if you enter right after a tick, because you'll be waiting almost 10 minutes before you get your first reward.

Edit: Nevermind, I missed the part with switching maps. I doubt you could do this more than 20 times given how slow GW2 maps load even on a good SSD, and the ticks are not perfectly synchronized. This is more involved than just flipping camps and going AFK for 10 minutes, though.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Player.2475

[Solvar.7953]

You get rewards on the first tick in WvW if you change maps - hence why I put that in my steps.

If you just enter a WvW map and wander around, you get nothing for the first tick.  If for example you go to Obsidian Sanctum first, and then switch to one of the borderlands, you will get rewards that first tick.  Trust me, I've done this, and it works.

This is a known 'feature' that experienced WvW players may know.  Even if I'm going to play WvW for a while, I'll go to OS first just to get that one extra tick of rewards.  Likewise, I'll see how much time left in the tick when exiting - if just a minute or so, will hang out to get that tick reward.

Farming this way unfortunately does involve these optimizations.  And while this isn't play the game, you are still getting the various wood/bronze/silver reward chests, as well as whatever reward track you are in.  So while it won't get you the materials for conflux, it gets you something.

 

[Cyninja.2954]

14 minutes ago, Player.2475 said:

I tried this when I started, but you do not get any rewards for the first tick you get in WvW. This also applies to disconnecting and immediately reconnecting or changing characters. You're extra unlucky if you enter right after a tick, because you'll be waiting almost 10 minutes before you get your first reward.

Seriously, reading half of the replies in this thread makes me wonder how many of the posters even regularly play WvW or raids.

Switching the map results in credit for the first tick. I guess you did not know that.

If you are consecutively waiting for pips and this is a huge issue, then that is a pure user error. I've hit 10k recently and missing out on the first pips was never an issue.

Missing out on the first pip tick is only significant for players that play in sub 30 minute bursts AND during times where fast map hopping is not available (say during prime time with lots of queue). In which case playing for 20-30 segments is more trolling your team than not. System is working as intended.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[Player.2475]

7 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Switching the map results in credit for the first tick. I guess you did not know that.

If you are consecutively waiting for pips and this is a huge issue, then that is a pure user error. I've hit 10k recently and missing out on the first pips was never an issue.

Missing out on the first pip tick is only significant for players that play in sub 30 minute bursts AND during times where fast map hopping is not available (say during prime time with lots of queue). In which case playing for 20-30 segments is more trolling your team than not. System is working as intended.

Nevermind, I misread the post.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Player.2475

[Cyninja.2954]

1 minute ago, Player.2475 said:

Did you even read my post before quoting it and replying?

I did and that poster is correct in being able to get the first tick when entering WvW.

[Player.2475]

10 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

I did and that poster is correct in being able to get the first tick when entering WvW.

I'm surprised Anet hasn't tried fixing this exploit if they go out of the way to deny players the first tick to begin with.

[XenesisII.1540]

Never surprises me anymore the lengths some people will go to extract a reward out of a game. 😏🍦