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What Races Other Than Humans Would Work Best As A Necro?


Ayumi Spender.1082

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My first character was a Necro and also human so that's off the list.Been thinking of making another character, but I want them to be Necro as well.

While I know Necros are now after playing GW2 and learning a bit from GW1, it's based around the Human God of the Undead. Whether it's Dhuum or Grenth or otherwise.But in GW2 we've seen anyone can be a Necro (well at least Sylvari with Trahearne), but wondering which is like the closest "makes sense" race to make a Necro except Human?Also would say except Sylvari as I've already made the perfect Sylvari and can't find another way to make a Sylvari look good to my view.

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They all have a great claim to all the classes, and EotN did a good job setting that up as well.

Sylvari are "naturally curious" so can be any class.Vekk's dad who's name escapes me was a necro in GW1.There was a norn... ritualist? or necro? that contacted the underworld in GW1.Charr obviously had necros as far back as GW1 Ascalon.I'm not aware of any human necros, but I assume they exist. (edit, not sure if you're new to GW, that was a bad joke.)

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While I know Necros are now after playing GW2 and learning a bit from GW1, it's based around the Human God of the Undead. Whether it's Dhuum or Grenth or otherwise.But in GW2 we've seen anyone can be a Necro (well at least Sylvari with Trahearne), but wondering which is like the closest "makes sense" race to make a Necro except Human?This is quite wrong. Necromancy, though associated with Grenth and Dhuum, are not based off the gods themselves. That would be like saying "Necromancy is based around Zhaitan" being it is the undead dragon. Necromancy is a form of magic that utilizes undead, soul, and mist magics. Allowing them to manipulate corporeal beings to an extent and communing/phasing with the mists, not too dissimilar to Revenants. Dhuum and Grenth just happen to be super charged Necromancers, so to speak. They are the extent of what a mortal being with an unnatural reserve of magic could become. In GW1 there were necromancers of all races, and not all those races pulled their powers from the gods. Human necromancers simply called upon Grenths power as he is the humans God of Necromancy, that is all.

A Norn could use necromancy to slip in and out of the mists to commune with the spirits of the wild and their ancestors. Asuran use necromancy as an extent of science, as necromancy is just playing with and learning from the dead (Look at Oola). Charr are warmongers; so them playing with the dead wouldn't be too hard to believe; make their foe bleed out slowly from internal injuries they have no idea how they obtained, or raise the corpses of their enemies to fight along side them just to dishearten their remaining foes (Though magic is frowned upon by most Charr due to the Flame Legions misuse of it). And Sylvari it's a matter of what their Dream lays in front of them. Trahearne was a necromancer because his dream lead him to cleanse Orr, and what better way than using undead magic to combat undead magic. Killeen (a character from The "Ghosts of Ascalon" novel) was curious about the dead, so her affinity lead her to learn undead magic (Necromancy).

So yeah: Necromancy is NOT something only humans use. The only reason GW1 suggests it's based off of Grenth is because the gods were the ones who bestowed humans with magic and they happened to be who Humans learned from and worshiped (And humans were the only characters we could play). But do remember that magic has been around in Tyria LONG before humans ever appeared, and Necromancy was one of those magics (as Zhaitan was on Tyria long before the humans, and the gods, as well).

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I think my favorite non human necro would probably be a Norn follower of Raven (who is also closely related to death and the afterlife). But in my case I went with a Sylvari Necromancer. My backstory is that he heard of the deeds of my GW1 character in the dream and decided to follow in his footsteps.

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There's a certain irony here, actually, in that humans of Tyria are probably actually the race that is most prejudiced against necromancers. Partly because necromancy just wigs people out, and partly because the human realms have been threatened so often by necromancy-related threats (the Lich Lord in Prophecies, Palawa Joko, Zhaitan, and on a smaller scale, the odd rogue necromancer who kidnaps civilians for use in necromantic experiments). Necromancers tend to only really be accepted by general human society when they're priests of Grenth or regulated by an umbrella body that acts to curb excesses by rogue individuals... and preferably, both.

Norn seem to have a similar attitude: they don't like the idea of somebody's legend ending as somebody else's undead puppet, and use of necromancy is rare outside of followers of Raven. We haven't seen much on the norn attitude towards necromancy, but what we have does seem to indicate that the typical norn is disturbed by it just like the typical human is.

Sylvari and asura both lack prejudice against necromancy, viewing it pragmatically as just another form of magic. Sylvari necromancers are apparently still somewhat rare because most sylvari prefer professions that are more in-tune with nature such as rangers and elementalists, but there's no prejudice against them. Among asura, necromancy does seem to be less popular than elementalism, mesmerism, and engineering, possibly because the asura are focused on magitech and those professions are seen as being those capable of creating the most impressive magitech. (Although Oola would disagree...)

Charr are actually probably the one race where necromancy is favoured over other magical disciplines. It isn't explicitly stated, but necromancy appears to be a branch of magic that was associated with the Ash Legion rather than the Flame, so as a result, there is probably less prejudice against necromancy than against other disciplines, particularly elementalists. This relationship continues to the present day: the most common profession for Ash Legion NPCs after thief, for instance, is necromancer. There may well be a viewpoint among the charr that necromancy might be part of the solution to the Foefire problem.

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Hm so it would seem that Humans would be the least really, Norns mainly followers of Raven (which thinking about it... I remember that one Norn Necromancer who kidnapped children to kill them and used their energy to stay young) kind of making me look away from Norns as well.

So the middle ground would be Asura/Sylvari and Charr seems more accustomed to being Necros.

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@Ayumi Spender.1082 said:(which thinking about it... I remember that one Norn Necromancer who kidnapped children to kill them and used their energy to stay young)

I think you're thinking of Vilnia Shadowsong, who's actually a mesmer (which also fits with Raven, who is associated with trickery as well as death, although I think mesmers also fit as Snow Leopard shamans as well). I was thinking of Avarr the Fallen from Eye of the North, along with Gullik's reaction to Killeen animating a woman's body in Ghosts of Ascalon.

Norn are probably the race who's general attitudes to necromancy (or magic in general) we know the least about, but they do seem to view animating the bodies of people in a negative light.

But we have been explicitly told that asura and sylvari have no prejudices against necromancy, and we have reason to believe that charr are at least less prejudiced against necromancy than against some other magic types.

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Asura, hands down. They are of the perfect attitude to use a resource like necromancy in anything they set their minds to. Also, necromancy and golemancy are destined to meet. Norn might have a certain reverence to Raven (that is not too different from humans praying to Grenth), and charr might tolerate necromancers as much as any mage class. Sylvari are curious. They aren't born but awakened, they dont age or die of natural causes, so they may lack a fundamental understanding of a true existential dread that normal mortal races have, and thus their view on death and necromancy might be... unique, but lacking true perspective. An asura though would without a blink bind souls to golems, use blood magic to treat diseases, or just methodically rot the ground to cultivate omnomberry like in its native orrian territory.

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  • 1 month later...

@Aaron Ansari.1604 said:

@MikeL.8260 said:What do the Sylvari really know about life and death?

Exactly! Other races have built up taboos and reservations about playing with corpses and rending souls, but for sylvari, it's something to be earnestly curious and fascinated about.

Would a newborn really care about the mysteries of life and death? no I don't think so, subjects like that are for scholars and life clingers that seek immortality and persevation, a newborn would be more interested in exploration and discovery, it would be fascinated by shiny rocks, natural phenomena and other living creatures.

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@MikeL.8260 said:

@MikeL.8260 said:What do the Sylvari really know about life and death?

Exactly! Other races have built up taboos and reservations about playing with corpses and rending souls, but for sylvari, it's something to be earnestly curious and fascinated about.

Would a newborn really care about the mysteries of life and death? no I don't think so, subjects like that are for scholars and life clingers that seek immortality and persevation, a newborn would be more interested in exploration and discovery, it would be fascinated by shiny rocks, natural phenomena and other living creatures.

First off, 'newborn' isn't quite right. They are still functionally mature beings, just not ones who start out with much life experience. More like homeschooled teenagers, really. And that's just starting off- by now, some of those shrubs are the equivalent of a human in their early forties.

But what would you call death, if not the most natural phenomena of all? Everything living goes through it, all life is sustained from it, and you can't understand what's happening in the world around you without trying to figure out death's place in it. Necromancy has nothing to do with immortality or preservation, after all. It's rot and decay, disease and consumption, cost and sacrifice. Those are fundamental themes to existence, and anyone who's been exposed to the world will pick up on them pretty quickly. It's not something pleasant to dwell on if your human, but that's for exactly the reason you said- humans cling to life. Sylvari haven't picked up that cultural reflex yet.

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@Aaron Ansari.1604 said:Necromancy has nothing to do with immortality or preservation, after all. It's rot and decay, disease and consumption, cost and sacrifice. Those are fundamental themes to existence, and anyone who's been exposed to the world will pick up on them pretty quickly.

I beg to differ, anyone with a slight hint of ambition to their name would use Necromancy to achieve eternal life and preserve themselves which in turn will lead to inevitable power and control, like Palawa Joko seem to have done and was for the most part succesful.

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@MikeL.8260 said:

@Aaron Ansari.1604 said:Necromancy has nothing to do with immortality or preservation, after all. It's rot and decay, disease and consumption, cost and sacrifice. Those are fundamental themes to existence, and anyone who's been exposed to the world will pick up on them pretty quickly.

I beg to differ, anyone with a slight hint of ambition to their name would use Necromancy to achieve eternal life and preserve themselves which in turn will lead to inevitable power and control, like Palawa Joko seem to have done and was for the most part succesful.

To the contrary, as far as I'm aware, we've never seen any necromancer actively striving for immortality. A few seem to have stumbled into it- Khilbron, Joko, Livia- but the means they used to do so don't seem to even be known to your average necromancer, much less available. It'd be like supposing that every elementalist will be striving to become a god because Gaheron almost pulled it off.

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I recall a dev once commenting that sylvari had the greatest ratio of necromancers compared to other professions, due to their lack of fear over death and their curious nature of wanting to understand death as it is a part of life in their minds.

Asura I'd argue would be second most common, due to how many famous golemancers had turned to necromancy - Oola and Blimm to name the most famous, and though an elementalist, Gadd had also used necromantic studies in his work.

Humans, though tying necromancy to Grenth and generally not seeing the profession as evil, are indeed weirded out by death (as shown pretty well in Ghosts of Ascalon - I think the ones least bothered by Killeen animating a corpse was Kranxx and Ember but even they were a bit weirded out), and as drax said it was stated by a dev that the constant recent necromantic-related threats to Kryta has built up a bit of disdain towards the profession (and towards Orrians, it should be noted, for those who had survived the Cataclysm due to not being in Orr at the time).

Following that would be norn. While there is the prejudice of "messing with people's bodies is wrong, mkay" situation, norn also treat matters on the individual more than on the group, so while they may not like necromancy, most norn will tolerate necromancers until said necromancer acts out - just like they treat Sons of Svanir.

While necromancy among charr does seem more tied to Ash (as is mesmerism), their general hatred of magic has led necromancers to be viled just as much as mesmers are (not sure about elementalists, though I'd imagine so especially fire elementalists).

@MikeL.8260 said:

@Aaron Ansari.1604 said:Necromancy has nothing to do with immortality or preservation, after all. It's rot and decay, disease and consumption, cost and sacrifice. Those are fundamental themes to existence, and anyone who's been exposed to the world will pick up on them pretty quickly.

I beg to differ, anyone with a slight hint of ambition to their name would use Necromancy to achieve eternal life and preserve themselves which in turn will lead to inevitable power and control, like Palawa Joko seem to have done and was for the most part succesful.

Ehhh.... I don't see why.

If I were living in Tyria's setting and striving for eternal life, I'd go towards preservation magic. Magic intended to heal and restore. Seems far more likely to give me longevity than a school of magic focused on death and decay.

We don't know how Palawa Joko became a lich, and Khilbron became one - by all indication - though ancient magic not innately tied to necromancy (the Lost Scrolls). Livia obtained her longevity via the Scepter of Orr, another ancient artifact not tied to necromancy (closer tied to ritualism than necromancy given its domain over souls).

Besides that, as Aaron said, we don't see any necromancer striving for things like eternal life. The only individuals actively striving for ambition that are also necromancers are Desmina and Palawa Joko. And one went to a god's blessing and the other remains a mystery as to how he obtained lichdom.

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Besides that, as Aaron said, we don't see any necromancer striving for things like eternal life. The only individuals actively striving for ambition that are also necromancers are Desmina and Palawa Joko. And one went to a god's blessing and the other remains a mystery as to how he obtained lichdom.

If I was scheming my eternity I wouldn't be very open about it, I would be hiding in the shadows, the problems of the world wouldn't be my problem until I had enough power to change or control it.

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I've made 2 necromancers where the profession was tied into their backstory.

One was an asura who started out as a Golemancer and concluded that always making golems out of metal restricts the range of available forms and functions so he started exploring other options - inspired by previous geniuses like Oola (who experimented with combining necromancy and golemancy) and Snaff (who famously made a golem out of sand so it could change it's shape). Sadly the game mechanics limit how far you can actually go with trying to combine the two (since it's either necromancer minions or asuran racial skills summoning golems) but he was still an interesting character to play.

The other was a norn follower of Raven. He actually started out as a revenant but for a variety of reasons (mainly aesthetic - there's a serious lack of feathers on heavy armour and I thought Nevermore would be wasted on a revenant since they use it as a melee weapon) he got switched to a necromancer. It required very few changes to his backstory however. He's an orphan raised by the Raven Lodge and has dedicated his life to trying to understand the mysteries of death and what happens afterwards. He's much more focused on Spectral and Corruption skills than the asuran, who mainly used minions and marks and will probably become a Scourge eventually.

I think any profession can work thematically on any race, you just need to factor in how other people might feel about the choice and how that might affect them as they're training and starting out in their chosen profession. For example a charr necro would be distrusted by a lot of his/her people, but because of being a caster rather than because they use dead bodies. They might actually be more accepted than a mesmer who can manipulate living people (often without them knowing they're being manipulated). Maybe they'd be very open about their magic - go out of their way to dress like a stereotypical necromancer so no one can claim they're hiding it or ashamed, but they might also act more subservient to their superiors and less forgiving towards anyone who questions the Legions - doing everything they can to show that no matter how they fight they're still a loyal soldier. But they'd be free to have an in-depth conversation about which creatures are the hardest to kill and whether that makes them good minions when they're in the tavern with their friends.

Whereas no one thinks twice about a human caster, but they'd need to be sensitive about who or what they resurrected and what they did with them. You can't just pop down to the nearest graveyard and summon someone's granny to do your bidding and you may need to periodically reassure people that you'd never do such a thing (when anyone was watching).

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@MikeL.8260 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Besides that, as Aaron said, we don't see any necromancer striving for things like eternal life. The only individuals actively striving for ambition that are also necromancers are Desmina and Palawa Joko. And one went to a god's blessing and the other remains a mystery as to how he obtained lichdom.

If I was scheming my eternity I wouldn't be very open about it, I would be hiding in the shadows, the problems of the world wouldn't be my problem until I had enough power to change or control it.

There's only so much you can hide if your actions bring you to interact with other people, however.

@"SnowHawk.3615" said:Charr. Because as a gw1 player, the Charr shamans were either Mesmer's or Necromancers from what I can recall. Definitely Charr.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Charr_Shaman

Not quite. :tongue:

Though in a less literal tone: the shaman caste members we typically fought were more often of the upright model, which was used for elementalists and monks. Though we did see necromancers, mesmers, and even warriors in the mix.

That said, the shaman caste were primarily Flame Legion and as such the most common professions of the shaman caste were likely (mostly) Flame Legion as well thus not common in modern society.

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  • 4 weeks later...

@MikeL.8260 said:

@"Aaron Ansari.1604" said:Necromancy has nothing to do with immortality or preservation, after all. It's rot and decay, disease and consumption, cost and sacrifice. Those are fundamental themes to existence, and anyone who's been exposed to the world will pick up on them pretty quickly.

I beg to differ, anyone with a slight hint of ambition to their name would use Necromancy to achieve eternal life and preserve themselves which in turn will lead to inevitable power and control, like Palawa Joko seem to have done and was for the most part succesful.

While I don't doubt necromancy is involved with becoming a lich in Tyria, it's also worth noting that liches are extremely rare in Tyria. And of the handful of confirmed liches we still know nothing of the processes involved with their creation. Presumably it's necromantic, but the point is that becoming a lich likely isn't something most people, or even most necromancers know about. So becoming a necromancer with intention to become a lich isn't really a thing that happens.

Beyond that the power offered by Grenth to Desmina was that, "the rotted corpses of the dead will be yours to control." Not eternal life. In fact it's almost the opposite implication as Desmina swore "allegiance in life and beyond." Meaning any life beyond death acquired via Grenth would be entirely by the god's whim and be an existence dedicated to serving him. Not exactly the sort of freedom of will that's usually associated with liches.

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@Riot Inducer.8964 said:

@"Aaron Ansari.1604" said:Necromancy has nothing to do with immortality or preservation, after all. It's rot and decay, disease and consumption, cost and sacrifice. Those are fundamental themes to existence, and anyone who's been exposed to the world will pick up on them pretty quickly.

I beg to differ, anyone with a slight hint of ambition to their name would use Necromancy to achieve eternal life and preserve themselves which in turn will lead to inevitable power and control, like Palawa Joko seem to have done and was for the most part succesful.

While I don't doubt necromancy is involved with becoming a lich in Tyria, it's also worth noting that liches are
extremely
rare in Tyria. And of the handful of confirmed liches we still know nothing of the processes involved with their creation. Presumably it's necromantic, but the point is that becoming a lich likely isn't something most people, or even most necromancers know about. So becoming a necromancer with intention to become a lich isn't really a thing that happens.

Beyond that the power offered by Grenth to Desmina was that, "the rotted corpses of the dead will be yours to control." Not eternal life. In fact it's almost the opposite implication as Desmina swore "allegiance in life and beyond." Meaning any life beyond death acquired via Grenth would be entirely by the god's whim and be an existence dedicated to serving him. Not exactly the sort of freedom of will that's usually associated with liches.

If I was a necromancer in Tyria all I would need to chase after eternal life would be the mere rumor of Liches let alone having seen one.

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