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Tweaks to core dungeons to help bring them into relevancy


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Probably suggested many times already, but here's what I propose for dungeons. Hopefully striking a balance between lower dev time (I'm just guessing?) and relevancy.

Story Path
Story dungeons should be scaled like personal story. The background of the characters and Arah finale in the core story is pretty important for character development in my opinion, just like LWS1 (which was made playable again [thank you!]) was important for character development. It also kind of introduces new players to dungeons, like where they are, the "feel" of each dungeon, etc.

Rewards

Make the exotic dungeon armor stat selectable.
Make core relics available for purchase with tokens.
Add token-purchasable bloodbound weapons.
Allow conversion of dungeon tokens to fractal relics.

Implement a daily dungeon system that awards an additional 1g per dungeon path for that day's dungeon the first time it is completed that day and 20% more tokens (daily achievement).
Consider having trash mobs drop baubles (not guaranteed rate) or some high value trash item to encourage players to farm the instance a bit rather than just rushing to the end (think an extra 3g per path if spending time to clear some trash mobs). 
All Arah paths (and Aetherblade) should offer 100 tokens as base, not 80, due to length/difficulty.

 

Streamlined Access
Anet has made some pretty good strides by adding the centralized dungeon access NPC in lions arch and consolidating the currencies [again, thank you!]. But,  get rid of the dungeon lock for characters that did not complete story mode. This doesn't work as a gate anymore to nudge players to do the story mode, it just acts as a barrier for starting dungeon groups completely. Change LFG to just be one [experienced] or two [training] sections (like strikes).


Conclusion

That dungeons are old or even "buggy" is definitely not why they are played. It's that they are hard to access and the rewards are trash compared to anything else people could play in game. Consider them "exotic-tier" whereas fractals are  "ascended-tier." Adding a conversion to fractal relics encourages veterans to engage with the content for extra relics for ascended gear and fractal rewards (especially now that farming for runes (e.g., monk runes) as become unnecessary). Adding a daily system pushes a small dungeon enjoyer player-base to certain dungeons. Consolidating lfg will help find "daily" groups at a glance. I'm not a dev, but this is mostly tweaking the drop tables, vendors, and creating a daily system; it isn't reworking dungeons, adding CMs, etc. so hopefully it is "feasable" while offering good newer player rewards and competitive rewards for veteran players.

Edited by firedragon.8953
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2 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

I like your suggestions except the dungeon tokens to fractal conversion.

Thanks. May I ask why no dungeon token to fractal conversion?
I was thinking something like 150 dungeon tokens = 1 Bag of Fractal Relics (15 relics) from the fractal vendors. This would make the dungeon tokens more valuable as dungeon tokens, and fractal relics much more easier to get through fractals, but it opens up a use for players who already got all the unique skins and have ascended gear and/or help players looking to get ascended gear for higher tier fractals.

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i think  the dungeons and fractal systems should've just been merged, instead of putting a generic npc in lion's arch to bandage the problem further. i'm guessing they just don't want to deal with having to split all the paths up into sizeable chunks like they did with aetherblade retreat and molten furnace.

 

meanwhile they've been adding stuff like sunqua peak which is longer than many whole dungeon paths.

Edited by SoftFootpaws.9134
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5 hours ago, firedragon.8953 said:

Thanks. May I ask why no dungeon token to fractal conversion?
I was thinking something like 150 dungeon tokens = 1 Bag of Fractal Relics (15 relics) from the fractal vendors. This would make the dungeon tokens more valuable as dungeon tokens, and fractal relics much more easier to get through fractals, but it opens up a use for players who already got all the unique skins and have ascended gear and/or help players looking to get ascended gear for higher tier fractals.

You can buy exotic items wirh your dungeon tokens to either break down for material or if weapon gamble in they mystic forge for gen 1 precursors instead of buying /crafting them.

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While I agree that it would be nice to have them refreshed in some capacity (scaling for fewer people would be great, although addressing the few paths that require multiple people might be problematic), an excerpt from a very recently published interview with Game Director Josh Davis pretty much confirmed what we've known for awhile about dungeons and where they stand on Anet's to-do list:

Question:  The base game's dungeons look a bit like leftover content at this point, but they can be really cool in terms of story and atmosphere. Did you consider adding Challenge Modes to make them relevant once again for the endgame loop?

No, this is not something we’re currently considering.

QuestionAs a follow-up on the endgame topic, could you share which activities you plan to focus on for future improvements and expansion?

In the first half of next year, we’ll be introducing the Temple of Febe Strike Mission Challenge Mode and a new 5-player Fractal Dungeon and Challenge Mode. Beyond that, I think fans will be pretty stoked when they hear about our plans for endgame PvE content in our next expansion!

 https://wccftech.com/guild-wars-2-qa-arenanet-on-switch-to-yearly-expansions-secrets-of-the-obscure-learnings-and-2024-update/

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2 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

You can buy exotic items wirh your dungeon tokens to either break down for material or if weapon gamble in they mystic forge for gen 1 precursors instead of buying /crafting them.

Fair point. I suppose my reasoning was to superficially connect dungeons and fractals to create a "path of progression" as it were. 5-player instanced content that awards exotics (dungeons) and 5-player instanced content that awards ascended/legendary (fractals).

49 minutes ago, Garrison Storm.3046 said:

While I agree that it would be nice to have them refreshed in some capacity (scaling for fewer people would be great, although addressing the few paths that require multiple people might be problematic)...

Admittedly, it's been a while since I've played any of the story paths in dungeons. I can't seem to recall any story paths having mechanics that require multiple players to progress. Can you think of any story paths that wouldn't be completable controlling for mob strength/spawn number?
 

51 minutes ago, Garrison Storm.3046 said:

a very recently published interview with Game Director Josh Davis

Yes, I know about this. Actually, this is the reason why I made this post. This isn't about developing content (e.g., CMs) for dungeons, it's about a systems refresh (adding dailies, adjusting vendor items, etc.). I know dungeon content development will not happen (nor does it need to), but base game systems need to be continually refined or we end up with an semi-abandoned unruly mess that confuses new (and veteran?) players as the games content grows. 

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11 minutes ago, firedragon.8953 said:

Snip

Admittedly, it's been a while since I've played any of the story paths in dungeons. I can't seem to recall any story paths having mechanics that require multiple players to progress. Can you think of any story paths that wouldn't be completable controlling for mob strength/spawn number?
 

Snip

One of the ac path were you need to use traps to kill mobs, Cof p1/3 1 is stand in 4 braziers to open door to kill a locking mechanism other is 3 torches that need to be lir at the same time, each coe explore since you need 4 people for buttons and some arah paths 1 were you need to stand on oil 4 sprouts to spawn boss anothere were you need to bounce a glowy ball are the ones I can think of on the top of my head.

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3 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

One of the ac path were you need to use traps to kill mobs, Cof p1/3 1 is stand in 4 braziers to open door to kill a locking mechanism other is 3 torches that need to be lir at the same time, each coe explore since you need 4 people for buttons and some arah paths 1 were you need to stand on oil 4 sprouts to spawn boss anothere were you need to bounce a glowy ball are the ones I can think of on the top of my head.

Oh... 
To be clear, I only mean a change in scaling to the STORY paths. Not the other paths. I think normal p1/p2/etc. should still be 5-player content and not solo content. Just the story focusing on the Destiny's Edge characters.

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5 minutes ago, firedragon.8953 said:

Oh... 
To be clear, I only mean a change in scaling to the STORY paths. Not the other paths. I think normal p1/p2/etc. should still be 5-player content and not solo content. Just the story focusing on the Destiny's Edge characters.

oh only the story well then you can just put up a lfg and bumble through it with 1-4 other people can you not?

Or just wait for the next dungeon rush since there will be plenty of partys for that.

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7 minutes ago, firedragon.8953 said:

Oh... 
To be clear, I only mean a change in scaling to the STORY paths. Not the other paths. I think normal p1/p2/etc. should still be 5-player content and not solo content. Just the story focusing on the Destiny's Edge characters.

Sorry I didn't catch that distinction (even though you did mention it).

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14 hours ago, firedragon.8953 said:

Thanks. May I ask why no dungeon token to fractal conversion?
I was thinking something like 150 dungeon tokens = 1 Bag of Fractal Relics (15 relics) from the fractal vendors. This would make the dungeon tokens more valuable as dungeon tokens, and fractal relics much more easier to get through fractals, but it opens up a use for players who already got all the unique skins and have ascended gear and/or help players looking to get ascended gear for higher tier fractals.

I don't think that encouraging veterans to take play time away from fractals to put into dungeons in order to earn the rewards they were earning in fractals is a positive change. New rewards or something of the sort in dungeons  that gives those vets a choice to make as to what reward to spend their play time pursuing seems a more positive change than encouraging people to play fractals less for the same rewards.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I whole heartily agree with modernizing old core content, especially to get new blood into the game (hopefully not the mess of the new player experience anet did the first time around with hero points). I mean map bonus rewards did help bring some life back into the core maps for a time. MDGA! (make dungeons great again).

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