Power Rev WvW Roaming build

[idolin.2831]

Hey all, just returned from a 2-year break, and I've been looking for a good power rev build for WvW roaming (since I just prefer power over condi/cele overall).

I used to play power herald but recently I'm just helpless when it comes to condi builds. I used to be able to deal with condi back before the big update in 2020 but since then I don't have the damage to finish them off anymore. I see that Salvation is quite popular now, more cleanse more sustain, but I'm unsure about the missing Devastation and losing damage. So what are some ways I could make a power build work?

 - Would Salvation/Invocation/Herald and GS/Sword+shield work? Helps with cleanse, but I'm unsure about the damage loss since we don't have Devastation.

- The alternative is going for Vindicator instead of Herald, but we lose out on fury. Also if we take Alliance can we swap Salvation for Devastation or is Salvation still mandatory? This is what I have in mind, although I'm still unsure about fury uptime and the second weapon set.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmxAEx7lZSMsTyjlSdMUijpSksSign1UWMF-DWRYBhMyUMqp8yOjMlCdqC043AOqmBA-w.

Also any tips regarding Vindicator gameplay is welcome. I've only played Power Herald since 2018 so I'm totally blind when it comes to Vindicator - for example how to cleanse efficiently, chain evade, heal (I see both Alliance heals are 1.5s channels), how to burst, etc.

Thanks in advance.

Edited February 8 by idolin.2831

[Sereath.1428]

Vindicator certainly has the highest ceiling of all rev specs. But it's also the most overwhelming for most players.
The problem with Power Herald is not exactly that Vindicator is better, but that other classes and specs are just too much for Herald to handle.
At least in WvW, Willbender is a direct upgrade from Power Herald in most aspects. Pure power creep.

- Unfortunately, Herald cannot afford to swap Devastation for Salvation. It just becomes a build with mediocre damage and mediocre sustain. And you need a lot of damage to counter the many Celestial builds around.

- With Vindicator you shouldn't struggle maintaining Fury if you keep Invocation.
Yes, you can take Devastation instead of Salvation. However, you will have to adopt the mentality of dropping your target within the first 15 secs, otherwise things can get very ugly.
Salvation is just better at being versatile and managing outnumbered, chaotic fights. Which I enjoy. Devastation seems to be a lot more popular for people that only do duels and "honor".
For one dimensional "Who can kill the other one within the first 10 secs, reducing everything to reaction times and if that fails, swapping to celestial. I love extremes." fights. (Sorry, my bias. Bad experiences with duelists.)
Fighting a good player on a celestial build while you are using Salvation can still be rough though. The missed damage from Devastation can be felt.

I actually stuck with Herald until 2023. Then I just got sick of every other class and spec.
Didn't switch earlier because I just didn't like Vindicator's gameplay at first. Especially when it had a single dodge. Burning one of your main defenses in order  to do some good damage was ugh to me.
So I'm relatively happy with Vindicator at the moment, at least in WvW.
In sPvP, it's a barely above average spec compared to other classes and their specs, the other rev specs are bad there.
I still don't miss Power Herald much. That thing is just far too unforgiving these days, and for a miserable reward.

By the way, for WvW I run a mix of Marauder and Dragon's. Greatsword with shortbow. GS because I just prefer the esthetics of them and it's still a good weapon, sb for its range and damage, it's a lot better for outnumbered fights and for about-facing. Full melee is rough nowadays.
Gear stats should be the same for both Devastation and Salvation. But since I run Salvation, I use offensive runes instead of something defensive like Durability.

Edited February 9 by Sereath.1428

[idolin.2831]

@Sereath.1428 yeah that's a good point about Herald. What Invocation traits do you go with? I'm not sure if I should take Spirit Boon + Song of the Mists or Incensed Response + Rolling Mists.

For runes I'm thinking something like firework, surging or scholar, but not sure how important boon duration is. And what about relics?

Edited February 8 by idolin.2831

[Buran.3796]

  Similar build but with a bit more less armor, a bit more health and 25% increase pace, 200% cd 100% cc under fury:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmgAEVlZSMsTqjhScsUyjpSksSign1UeMC-DWZYbBhJGVcDzBReIZKF6VEUhCQkXCSgA7h7HSC4BA-w

   I'm very sceptic about full mele at WvW with Vindicator, so I'll always chose to pair greatsword with short bow, no matter if is a hybrid or power build: WvW is full of specs which can poke at range while moving and Vindi has very little cc;  you will be poked and if you spent your energy chasing a target the times you reach it you will have less to unleash attacks or to save for emergencies (breakstuns). Not to mention also that some specs as Necros will entirely disrupt your mele gameplay just placing unblockable wells at teir feets or casting fear with warhorn and corrupt/burst you in your flee... Having a short bow allows to put pressure at range and the weapon brings also cc and two AoE skills which can't be reflected.

   Now, my experience with WvW power rev (Vindi) last year (playing full mele with three swords) was decent vs mele power builds but lacking against ranged ones and being deleted by good power Revs (which means that my finesse at playing it was larghely deficient). Condi foes kicked my kitten. I've not player power ranged Vindi since I found that cele Vindicator seems stronger (similar dps albeit more spaced in time and less bursty) due better armor, better boon duration and better healings. Still have my troubles vs Harbingers and some Mesmers, but I find out that I'm able to survive and and tie or even defeat players more skilled than myself and finding out I was able to make celestial Druids to flee and to take camps defended by a full support Scourge (He wasn't able to kill me, I couldn't kill him but crushed all the enemy NPJs while fighting Him, which was forced then to retreat).

   I'm also a non-believer in Devastation traitline, specially at WvW: Battle Scars barely do anything and Brutality works better in a burst but mostly if you have a cc to frame that burst (and Vindi is lacking at that). I would say that works better with Herald since you have Elemental Blat/Chaoutic release at 0 energy cost and you can surprise a ceed foe with a rush of fast attacks, but with Vindi your ccs are the extremely expensive and easy to see Jade Winds or Reaver's Rage, and I'm not sure if I want to burn a breakstun into dazing someone for a second and half, unless that's all the time I need to zero that foe...

   I promise I will test this a bit more in the weekend... 

[idolin.2831]

@Buran.3796 yeah I run Swift Termination instead of Dance of Death. If I swap Salvation out for Devastation, the damage increase is quite noticeable. But the cleanse and heal and reduced damage taken on dodge seem too good to not take too. I'll probably try both out, but given how condi builds are the bane of my existence, I'm leaning towards Salvation for now.

How's the damage of the build you linked? I see you're not running Incensed Response either, is having little to no might a problem? Surging + Rapid Flow solve the movement speed problem though, I've been feeling pretty slow on my Vindicator.

As you can see it took me 4-5 years to get over the fact that pHerald isn't as viable anymore, legend swaps don't stun break and we no longer have perma 25 might. I'm sure I'll struggle a lot this weekend too, but at least I'm enjoying Vindicator gameplay. Couldn't say the same about Renegade...

[Sereath.1428]

16 hours ago, idolin.2831 said:

@Sereath.1428 yeah that's a good point about Herald. What Invocation traits do you go with? I'm not sure if I should take Spirit Boon + Song of the Mists or Incensed Response + Rolling Mists.

For runes I'm thinking something like firework, surging or scholar, but not sure how important boon duration is. And what about relics?

For Invocation with Vindicator I go 2-2-3.
Rising Tide I just like better with Salvation and Vindicator.
Rapid Flow for the Swiftness because speed is always good, and its another boon that contributes to Resilient Spirit (some barrier per boon). Incensed Response is very bad, nerfed too hard years ago. Spirit Boon looks decent.
Last Column is all good, I think. I just like Roiling Mists better because I like the consistency of having a high critical chance.

For runes I actually run those two mentioned, Surging and Fireworks. But Surging mostly because I don't like spamming abilities every 5s, even just switching Impossible Odds on and off gets annoying. The boon duration of both is very nice.

For relics, I usually take Evasion. Great synergy with the spec.
Speed is also a very good alternative.
Never used any damage ones, because it's easier to compensate for damage in other ways.

Edited February 9 by Sereath.1428

[idolin.2831]

Interestingly I see @Buran.3796 uses Forerunner of Death while @Sereath.1428 uses Saint of zu Heltzer, and I've been trying out the other one. Any insights into the different dodges?

[Sereath.1428]

Sorry, no, I meant Invocation 2-2-3.
Vindicator is 1-2-2.

Personally, I don't like Death Drop. The playstyle around it.
However, Death Drop is probably the best jump. It's just so overloaded, the dodge itself does a lot of damage and the buff it provides is also too good.
But, Imperial Impact has better synergy with Resilient Spirit.

Edited February 9 by Sereath.1428

[idolin.2831]

Few things after a long session:

- Feels like when running Salvation/Invocation I do need Death Drop. Damage difference is significant enough.

- Shortbow is super helpful, as soon as you run into an opponent who can kite well you're dead. Sword/Sword has sword 3 and 5 but Shortbow is probably more versatile, and the added CC is pretty nice.

- Staff is nice as always but it kinda scuffs your damage too much, at least if we run pHerald, Glint still has an a CC and 2 damage skills. With more frequent dodges and added sustain from Salvation, I don't find myself missing staff (as much as I thought I would).

- My defense absolutely sucks. Any tips for defense, e.g rotation, how to kite, etc.?

Overall I'm enjoying it. The skill ceiling is there the potential is there. A bit difficult switching to a new build after 5 years but it's more fun than I thought, especially the frequent dodges.

[Buran.3796]

16 hours ago, idolin.2831 said:

Interestingly I see @Buran.3796 uses Forerunner of Death while @Sereath.1428 uses Saint of zu Heltzer, and I've been trying out the other one. Any insights into the different dodges?

  Is all about the synergies.

  When I play celestial Vindicator at WvW my election is Vassals of the Empire because with full celestial gear + runes of Surging the boon duration is 59.6%, so boons last a lot (even with the WvW nerfs) and the mid trait procs boons, plus with cele gear most of my damage doesn't come from physical damage so Forerunner of Death doesn't benefit me that much. Is also important to note that cele Vindicator is a bruiser, not a glass canon: with it I don't kill in burst (unless the foe defenses or skill is horrid) but after attrition fights.

  When I play power Vindicator at WvW my only extra boon duration comes from the runes (if all), so the mid trait impact is reduced; what I want instead id to maximize my burst, since the plan is to either surprise the foe with a huge burst or poke a little and make him waste defenses until I release that burst, and then if I have no success the best path is to use mobility to retreat or disengage since I don't plan to tank in a dog fight vs a bruiser or another tanky spec. That's why with power I run Forerunner of Death (which by the way uses exactly the same trait choices as in PvP).

   So, albeit sharing legends and weapons, (and most of traits) the gameplay from power and celestial iterations have very distinctive gameplays: power means hit & run; celestial allows to stay in fights for longer, since armor is bigger, helaing power much stronger and boons also last for longer.

[idolin.2831]

@Buran.3796 have you tried Retribution instead of Salvation? At first look it gives endurance regen, vigor, resolution which helps with condi, and more damage dealt and less strike damage taken while resolution is up. Seems pretty good no?

[Strider.7849]

On 2/8/2024 at 12:29 PM, Buran.3796 said:

  Similar build but with a bit more less armor, a bit more health and 25% increase pace, 200% cd 100% cc under fury:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmgAEVlZSMsTqjhScsUyjpSksSign1UeMC-DWZYbBhJGVcDzBReIZKF6VEUhCQkXCSgA7h7HSC4BA-w

   I'm very sceptic about full mele at WvW with Vindicator, so I'll always chose to pair greatsword with short bow, no matter if is a hybrid or power build: WvW is full of specs which can poke at range while moving and Vindi has very little cc;  you will be poked and if you spent your energy chasing a target the times you reach it you will have less to unleash attacks or to save for emergencies (breakstuns). Not to mention also that some specs as Necros will entirely disrupt your mele gameplay just placing unblockable wells at teir feets or casting fear with warhorn and corrupt/burst you in your flee... Having a short bow allows to put pressure at range and the weapon brings also cc and two AoE skills which can't be reflected.

   Now, my experience with WvW power rev (Vindi) last year (playing full mele with three swords) was decent vs mele power builds but lacking against ranged ones and being deleted by good power Revs (which means that my finesse at playing it was larghely deficient). Condi foes kicked my kitten. I've not player power ranged Vindi since I found that cele Vindicator seems stronger (similar dps albeit more spaced in time and less bursty) due better armor, better boon duration and better healings. Still have my troubles vs Harbingers and some Mesmers, but I find out that I'm able to survive and and tie or even defeat players more skilled than myself and finding out I was able to make celestial Druids to flee and to take camps defended by a full support Scourge (He wasn't able to kill me, I couldn't kill him but crushed all the enemy NPJs while fighting Him, which was forced then to retreat).

   I'm also a non-believer in Devastation traitline, specially at WvW: Battle Scars barely do anything and Brutality works better in a burst but mostly if you have a cc to frame that burst (and Vindi is lacking at that). I would say that works better with Herald since you have Elemental Blat/Chaoutic release at 0 energy cost and you can surprise a ceed foe with a rush of fast attacks, but with Vindi your ccs are the extremely expensive and easy to see Jade Winds or Reaver's Rage, and I'm not sure if I want to burn a breakstun into dazing someone for a second and half, unless that's all the time I need to zero that foe...

   I promise I will test this a bit more in the weekend... 

Thanks for the detail you put into your responses. I revently returned to power herald but even as an experienced outnumbered roamer, I get completely blown up on power herald.

My personal issue with rev has always been managing my energy. It makes sense on thief for me, comparatively speaking, but revenant I burn all my energy and can't even use skills to defend myself after.

I'm going to try your vindicator setup as a last ditch effort before I shelve my revenant again. 

[Jobber.6348]

I play mainly core rev roaming, let me know if you want some builds or tips because there's quite abit to cover. 

[nosleepdemon.1368]

8 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

I play mainly core rev roaming, let me know if you want some builds or tips because there's quite abit to cover. 

Bit of a general question, but what does core offer over one of the Elites? Alliance for example seems really strong with the two skill sets.

[Buran.3796]

18 hours ago, idolin.2831 said:

@Buran.3796 have you tried Retribution instead of Salvation? At first look it gives endurance regen, vigor, resolution which helps with condi, and more damage dealt and less strike damage taken while resolution is up. Seems pretty good no?

  Retribution was the classic choice for short bow & staff Renegade roamers and PvP enjoyers for a while... 1,2,2 when Dome of the Mist used to provide 6 seconds of projectile block at WvW after casting a heal. plus some resolution on evasion and vigor on succesful dodges plus some damage mitigation. Then these effects were nerfed and Forced Engagement was remade going from one target at 1200 to five targets at 600 and finally was reverted to a single target but only 900 range...   

   I'll be clear here: I have a main Rev with 8 build slots, another Rev with 4 and another one with 3; 7 of them are WvW/PvP builds, only one of those plantiffs uses the Retribution traitline and is not in the most succesful or favored  build of my taste. Some builds are power, some are condi/hybrid, and some are tanky; even in that last case, I prefer Invocation + Salvation over any combo with Retribution. And I'm not the only one: Spudzie, Pseudo, Esufer, Kickazz... I don't remember seen recent videos of Revs running that traitline.

   By the way, had some WvW roaming and dueling this afternoon running a pure power Vindicator build; taped some of them, I'll upload a couple of them in the next hours...

[idolin.2831]

4 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

  Retribution was the classic choice for short bow & staff Renegade roamers and PvP enjoyers for a while... 1,2,2 when Dome of the Mist used to provide 6 seconds of projectile block at WvW after casting a heal. plus some resolution on evasion and vigor on succesful dodges plus some damage mitigation. Then these effects were nerfed and Forced Engagement was remade going from one target at 1200 to five targets at 600 and finally was reverted to a single target but only 900 range...   

   I'll be clear here: I have a main Rev with 8 build slots, another Rev with 4 and another one with 3; 7 of them are WvW/PvP builds, only one of those plantiffs uses the Retribution traitline and is not in the most succesful or favored  build of my taste. Some builds are power, some are condi/hybrid, and some are tanky; even in that last case, I prefer Invocation + Salvation over any combo with Retribution. And I'm not the only one: Spudzie, Pseudo, Esufer, Kickazz... I don't remember seen recent videos of Revs running that traitline.

   By the way, had some WvW roaming and dueling this afternoon running a pure power Vindicator build; taped some of them, I'll upload a couple of them in the next hours...

Ah okay, I only look at Retribution in PvE. It's way worse in WvW and with Vindicator, makes sense why nobody is running it.

Looking forward to the videos, I'm having issues with going defensive. Right now I'm just spamming dodges and heals and Tree Song.

[Jobber.6348]

9 hours ago, nosleepdemon.1368 said:

Bit of a general question, but what does core offer over one of the Elites? Alliance for example seems really strong with the two skill sets.

Core has a few benefits but the biggest most noticeable one is the fact you can take a third Core Traitline. Ever felt like you ever want both Devastation's damage AND Salvation's utility? With Core you can. 

Ever since SOTO unlocked the other Espec weapons for Core, Core has found a resurgence in usage due to the fact that Core weapons kinda suck and were limited but with the expansion weapons being available, the greatsword and shortbow weapons beefed up Core's resume in how they can go about doing damage. This combined with the aforementioned ability to run 3 Core traitlines enables greater flexibility in builds. 

The base F2 mechanic for Core is Ancient Echo which depending on your Legend choices greatly increase your choice of action. Ancient Echo is abit like Vindicator's Angsyian's Trust except it also gives a specific boon or buff depending on the Legend you're in when it is casted. In Shiro it gives you 2 stacks of unblockable, In Jalis it gives you a mini Rite of the Great Dwarf. 

[Jobber.6348]

8 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

  Retribution was the classic choice for short bow & staff Renegade roamers and PvP enjoyers for a while... 1,2,2 when Dome of the Mist used to provide 6 seconds of projectile block at WvW after casting a heal. plus some resolution on evasion and vigor on succesful dodges plus some damage mitigation. Then these effects were nerfed and Forced Engagement was remade going from one target at 1200 to five targets at 600 and finally was reverted to a single target but only 900 range...   

   I'll be clear here: I have a main Rev with 8 build slots, another Rev with 4 and another one with 3; 7 of them are WvW/PvP builds, only one of those plantiffs uses the Retribution traitline and is not in the most succesful or favored  build of my taste. Some builds are power, some are condi/hybrid, and some are tanky; even in that last case, I prefer Invocation + Salvation over any combo with Retribution. And I'm not the only one: Spudzie, Pseudo, Esufer, Kickazz... I don't remember seen recent videos of Revs running that traitline.

   By the way, had some WvW roaming and dueling this afternoon running a pure power Vindicator build; taped some of them, I'll upload a couple of them in the next hours...

Mainly because Salvation offers an answer to Condi while Retribution doesn't, at least not without a heavy Energy Cost and camping Jalis. Between Jalis Heal and reworked Salvation, Revenants are no longer as helpless to Condi as they once were. 

Retribution still has decent use in WvW however, but not as a dueling build. For one, it's very good for taking camps comfortably between DBT and Jalis Road and all the Resolution buffs it innately enjoys while the WvW mastery of Resolution granted when being hit by a Guard gives you free and easy access to this boon. It's also highly useful in smallscale havoc with a ROTG built into Versed in Stone which not only gives you a pocket stunbreak if you got caught it also gives you damage and condi damage reduction via ROTG. All around still useful. 

[Buran.3796]

   Ok, so there is a couple of fights I have yesterday afternoon while roaming at WvW; one is a skirmish against a gold legend after chasing a diamond one near the colliseum and the other a series of duels against a diamond raider. I'm myself gold assaulter at the moment so oine of them have ~1k levels and the other ~x4 levels above me (doesn't mean much since xp can be farmed at zergs and doesn't denoite skill, but still experience is a grade, anyway).

 

 

 

   The first one, against the gold legend Harbinger since in my experience a good Harb or Reaper in cele stats (which is what I assume He's riding) usually can beat my cele Vindicator, so I had low expectations of being able to endure a fight as a pure power (marauder + dragon and two assassin earings) Vindicator, yet what arise was a 4'40" fight which I was able to endure despite being aware soon enough that I just lacked the means to deliver significant damage to the Harbinger build.

   It starts with the Harb in all the boons so Elixir of Ambition can safely be assumed; I evade his first burst and interrupt him so at the recover lost the 25 might stacks and I evade a second burst so when the hits start to land in me their impact was limited. I think is not running Curses since I don't see bleeds proccing on crits and that's fantastic since Path of Corruption + Shourd #2 is lethal. I got cced and delivers a burst but seems that his only ofensive conditions are torment and vulnerability; a quick look at the boons clearly showcases that I'm in disadvantage since I'm only proccing regen, protection after heals, some fury and swiftness and rarely might, whereas He has also  quickness  and the boons last longer. Now, I've already swap to greatsword and my full Eternity Requiem while in fury didn't even reach 3k (in part due Him having protection). I got cced like forever and got 16 torment stacks but I remove them easily evading (seems that his overall damage is low anyway, which hints to celestial or maybe even a support build?).

   I've already spent over a minute fighting and my best was denting Him to 71% HP and what I'm getting is tons of yellow numbers from barrier and my spear barely reaching 2k on hit. Now the Harb has Ambition again and fortunately He does nothing before the 25 might stacks expire; my Nomad's Advance hits for pity 2040 on His barrier (despite my fury) and we start to dance around while barely denting our foe...   Got ceed, breakstun, land my 3k Requiem, His HP goes to 76% but recovers almost instantly with more barriuer on top...  And this is the problem with power builds overall at the moment in WvW (except maybe WB): I'm running a build with 2621 base power, cap crit chance under fury and 200% crit damage yet my hits barely do damage. Revenant was balanced to fight in 25 might stacks but the nerfs to de base damage of the skills, the removal of the might and fury procs in some traits means that I barely get any might stack in WvW. You could argue that I'm not running the traitline/traits to get those stacks but my answer would be: even running those I would not make decent damage since the duration is heavily reduced at WvW and with those trait choices I would be dead due lack of sustain anyway. The reality is: celestial actually does more damage than power because the conditions work much better and the extra armor, heal power and boon duration keeps you in the fight.

  Around 3'30" I go full mele, hit with everything, got nothing in return but condi vomit, swap to blue and at that moment I'm already well aware that I can't win so I'm already planing a disengage and after toying a bit more I finally chose to leave. I don't blame celestail nor barrier but the evidence that power builds are neutered in damage at WvW. I think that my cele build would have forced a tie/favourable outcome and a condi build with Mallyx would have clear chances due the ability to disable boons.

 

   The fights against the diamond raider Soulbeast were duels which happened spontaneously after a chasing. They are more interesting since since there we aren't meat balls and both have choices of going down since the higher damage.  Another point is while the Harb fight remained the same, there the Ranger playing is chosing to change builds and weapons after each round, so is trying to actively adapt to what is facing.

   My spear hits for near 3k with no fury (got over 4k in some of the fights) and He starts with short bow & hammer? I'm not familiar with Ranger's hammer. We traded some cc, bith ahve access to fury, swiftness, regeneration... I see some protection and stability also. My first Requiem lands for ~3.6k, and Mist Unleashed ~2.6k.  His HP falls to 1/3 and the match gets interrupted so we re-started.

   He roots me for near 4 seconds and I block and doesn't get much; I asume that is a condi build focused in dealing cc and condi bombs so I keep present that roots will unable my evades but I have 3 cleanses in the bow swap and more in blue. Try to avoid His fields and catch him in mines. Not sure about his stats, but I assume viper since when I hit his HP goes down fast. Got 4.5k with my Sevenshot, 3.2k Requiem. Get caught with roots and 6 condis but swap to bow and root gets removed. He's now at 50% HP, I have 6 stacks of burns but my legend swap removes them and I land a new Sevenshot, I fail Spiritcrush but  Nomad's Advance accidentally blast it and I got fire aura, land Scavenger Burst, swap to greatsword, change with Phantom's Onslaught, He wisely evades that and my jump, I got crippled. I'm at 55% HP, He's at 28%; He retreats and I chase with Phase Traversa, I evadi His bow bot got rooted again, land a 4.4k Requiem, swap to bow to wide oout the root and condis and land a 1.8k Forerunner of Death in His head. End of round one.

   Second round; the spear crits for 4.5k and I got rooted and crippled while we exchange ranged hits buth both endure well. Then got crippled and rooted again but my Requiem crifs for 5.7k and the spear for 5k; again the bow swap frees me and I retreat and we both traded ranged burst. We are now ~60% HP both but boons favours the Soulbeast. I use Nomad to enlarge the gap and heal then I release the spear again while chasing expecting to catth the ranger between my elite and my volleys which happens. He's now 40% but commands his pet to do Unrelenting Assault to me then shifts to the pet place to take me by side, but I land Scorchrazor + Phase Traversal + Bloodbane Path and while He ries to retreat I land Sevenshoot and a 2.6k Phantom. He reaches 6% but my rush ends here since I got knocked down and bursted with weapon swap in 6s cooldown. He helas but gets a 4.5k Requiem again and a jump, so calls the dollyak stance and tries to profit on my chill + crippled with bust: both now smell the blood and full balls to the wall. I cast spear and use  Reaver's and Scavenger so fast that get cancelled but at the end seems that the spear hits and downs Him while I'm using the heal. This ends the second round, a close one.

  The Soulbeast takes a while to start the third round so I asume it made some adjustments. He's now running a more aggressive build and isntantly jumps to mele and cc me but in those exchanges He gets the worse part despite having boon adavantage. I got 11 stacks of venom and vuln in two burst  but I heal and cast spear and land two good attacks with the bow and the Soulbeast is now below 25% so I Phase Traversal to get fury + quickness + unblockables and my Sevenshot partially lands. He roots me and condi bombs me and I go down to 10k HP but loses so much HP in that exchange that is forced to retreat and then my second Phase Traversal + Sevenshoot lands and is over.

   A fourth round after more changes; I start landing ranged arrows and the spear and use my evades very soon since He's clearly aiming to mele and end the thing fast;  I retreat and got rooted again but something is off in his build since when I fight condi trapper Druids their condi bombs are way stronger. Anyway, I put space, land 7s & Spiritcrush, got rooted again but cast spear + Reaver's + Scavenger on my place and a 3.4k spear ends the fight.  The SB wasn't patient here and paid it dying fast while I kept my HP almost untouched.

   Fifth round after more changes (now He's using dagger & torch ´short bow?); I smell more agressivity so play retreating. He goes 70% HP but roots me and condi bombs: I cast spear and heal then swap to blue but fell to 9k, I heal & evade and Mist Unleash for 4.5k + aa finish. The fight was fast but the fundamentals of what happened was this: if you condi burst, unless your condi is burns or perplexity, you need patience and play safe since you won't burst with condis faster than a power build burst with power.

   In the 6th I'm not sure if the SB ended the changes since took it a while to start (amybe did use the same); this started in big disadvantage for Him since my ranged attacks landed and soon He was at 50% and forced to attack; He rooted me, put pressure with condis, heal and this time I fell bellow 7k and under a second burst went to 5k, but then I retreated, evaded, His third attempt to burst, cced him, landed my bow burst and finished Him with a jump while was trying to mele me again. This was close to what rounds 4 and 5 should have been played given the build the SB wielded.

   The 7th and final round I think was played the best: only ~150 seconds of fight but more experimented. We start moving a lot, I land a 4.4k spear, use my dodges and block, got dazed by horn before the Requiem,  breakstun, evade with Shiro... That first 30 seconds were better played by both than the 6th rounds before and still our HP is almost intact. I got rooted but the condis were weak; He now tries to keep distance, eats 3.6k from Requiem, evades my jumps and a charge, I swap to gs, got knockdown, both are now at 65%. I miss the target and wrongly tag a creep in the river while the SB cast axes on me, but gets interrupted by Scorchrazor. Still He interrupts me in my Heal so is now at full heal while I'm at 12k; I use the Urn, got knocked. SB is now the best at which was in the figth but I now go to pressure Him: another Scorchrazor + 7S; I heal and block but got interrupted. He's now at 70% but I'm at 11k and filled with condis. I swap to blue, breakstun, use Battle Dance to evade, Urn... My heals is partially canceled and I'm now filled with more condis from the axe spam. I go 7.8k HP and cast Requiem defensively and forces him (which goes to 64%) to use a heal. I swap to bow, knock him down and gain some time but keep attacking. I phase Traversal to him but He learned and this time interrupts me and puts another condi burst...  I fall to 7k, go blue, Dance, heal and use bow: I'm at 35% He's at 60%. Soulbeast now pressures at mele but I defend right swapping to gs, blocking and releasing a 4.1k Requiem. He's now at 37% while I'm at 55%. He tries mele burst again and re-heals, I do the same with heal from blue to orange to spear, evade removing cripple and slam Him with a 2.8k Nomad's Advance; I got crippled again and He evades my Mist Unleashed but gets hit by a 3k spear casted before and now a 2k Forerunner of Death... I'm now at 14700 HP with 7 stacks of poison and SB is at 45% HP with 5 stacks of vulnerability and torment. Gets interrupted, recovers, evades, eats 7S, Bloodbane. I got hit by the pet, I'm at 10k but instead of healing I swap to Shiro, Phase Traversal, jump 7S again (He partially evades) but is over. He falls while I reach 3.2k HP. That was ny far not only the closest match but the one in which I was in trouble for most of the time. He didn't went back after.

 

   So, Impressions: I think that power Vindi (the same as Herald, to less extent) is viable at WvW roaming but not in a striong place. It has way better tools to deal with condi damage (the original weakness of the class), but the nerfs to might and fury put it in a weak place in a game mode which is dominated by celestial builds and condi bunkers. I've seen a power Herald way about my league killing other players then being unable to deal with my cele Vindi U(a brusier match it would have lose the same as my power Vindi vs the Harbinger from the first video) so He chose to go away. So, unless ANet restores the damage values of the power builds in WvW they would remain as viable but subpar, except for Willbender and some annoying Deadeye builds.

   

[Angesombre.4630]

I've already seen against some necro that it was impossible to lower their health, so maybe they're very good and I'm bad, but their health didn't move that much.

[Angesombre.4630]

12 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Core has a few benefits but the biggest most noticeable one is the fact you can take a third Core Traitline. Ever felt like you ever want both Devastation's damage AND Salvation's utility? With Core you can. 

Ever since SOTO unlocked the other Espec weapons for Core, Core has found a resurgence in usage due to the fact that Core weapons kinda suck and were limited but with the expansion weapons being available, the greatsword and shortbow weapons beefed up Core's resume in how they can go about doing damage. This combined with the aforementioned ability to run 3 Core traitlines enables greater flexibility in builds. 

The base F2 mechanic for Core is Ancient Echo which depending on your Legend choices greatly increase your choice of action. Ancient Echo is abit like Vindicator's Angsyian's Trust except it also gives a specific boon or buff depending on the Legend you're in when it is casted. In Shiro it gives you 2 stacks of unblockable, In Jalis it gives you a mini Rite of the Great Dwarf. 

I haven't played core again for a long time, so do you think that with the trait modification in invocation if you play with it you have enough critical and power?

[arazoth.7290]

29 minutes ago, Angesombre.4630 said:

I've already seen against some necro that it was impossible to lower their health, so maybe they're very good and I'm bad, but their health didn't move that much.

If you use your burst in shroud or in case of scourge their defensives + barrier. Then you won't have much too pressure when they're out of it during that window. They will just stall you during that time and regain enough lifeforce/cds un case of scourge to do it again and again.

So try to avoid that cycle. The better the necro, the better they can do that.

And in case of harbringers it's not because of those 2 but because of the cycle keeping up the offensive pressure in and out of shroud as much they can while trying to kite/stall same time depending on abilties chosen.

 

Try to get out of that cycle by kiting/cc'ing them enough that they have to leave shroud and barriers are gone to pressure. Keep aware when they are about to get in shroud again, so your guard isn't too much lowered that you're in trouble and ready for those moments. If you get countered then, they are better or counters your build or both.

[Jobber.6348]

13 hours ago, Angesombre.4630 said:

I haven't played core again for a long time, so do you think that with the trait modification in invocation if you play with it you have enough critical and power?

You mean the one where Contained Temper was changed from being a Fury source to Energy refund?

I've already made my opinion on it: It's a good change but a really flaccid one. 5 Energy in competitive is a joke and 15 Energy in PvE is decent but whatever. I would make it 10 Energy in competitive and 20 Energy in PvE or else it's just a bandaid cost nerf refund which basically takes a trait slot and "fixes" a bad change they previously made.

Do I have enough Fury uptime? Absolutely, I still do. This is mainly because your on-swap already gives near permanent Fury if you are running Durability Runes and are playing Revenant as well, a Revenant and swapping frequently to keep the pressure up. Contained Temper giving Fury only mattered to me back when Incensed Response wasn't nerfed into the dirt. It helped me quick stack 20 stacks of Might on Core together with old Fireworks and offhand Axe + Forced Engagement. After Incensed got nerfed and Rapid Flow just being all round better for gameplay QoL anyway, I kinda never cared if Contained Temper even existed for me. 

The biggest deal with Invocation these days is that you are now allowed to run Glaring Resolve or Rising Tide because Salvation pretty much got hard buffed to become Revenant's saving grace defensive anti condi traitline. You could still run Cleansing Channel to be extra safe but trust me between Devastation's Resistance on Movement skills and Salvation rolling, you're fine if you play properly, leaving you with either a Stability source to counter CC spam or just good ol' extra damage. 

[idolin.2831]

9 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

You mean the one where Contained Temper was changed from being a Fury source to Energy refund?

I've already made my opinion on it: It's a good change but a really flaccid one. 5 Energy in competitive is a joke and 15 Energy in PvE is decent but whatever. I would make it 10 Energy in competitive and 20 Energy in PvE or else it's just a bandaid cost nerf refund which basically takes a trait slot and "fixes" a bad change they previously made.

Do I have enough Fury uptime? Absolutely, I still do. This is mainly because your on-swap already gives near permanent Fury if you are running Durability Runes and are playing Revenant as well, a Revenant and swapping frequently to keep the pressure up. Contained Temper giving Fury only mattered to me back when Incensed Response wasn't nerfed into the dirt. It helped me quick stack 20 stacks of Might on Core together with old Fireworks and offhand Axe + Forced Engagement. After Incensed got nerfed and Rapid Flow just being all round better for gameplay QoL anyway, I kinda never cared if Contained Temper even existed for me. 

The biggest deal with Invocation these days is that you are now allowed to run Glaring Resolve or Rising Tide because Salvation pretty much got hard buffed to become Revenant's saving grace defensive anti condi traitline. You could still run Cleansing Channel to be extra safe but trust me between Devastation's Resistance on Movement skills and Salvation rolling, you're fine if you play properly, leaving you with either a Stability source to counter CC spam or just good ol' extra damage. 

How do you have perma fury? Invoker's Rage in Invocation only gives 5s of Fury, even with Dura/Surging runes (15% boon duration) it's only 5.75s.

Edit: For my vindi build there's Riposting Shadow in Shiro and Scavenger Burst in Alliance that give fury. Almost enough to keep up fury, I think my main issue is I linger in Alliance for too long. 

Edited February 12 by idolin.2831

[Tulkas.2576]

4 hours ago, idolin.2831 said:

How do you have perma fury? Invoker's Rage in Invocation only gives 5s of Fury, even with Dura/Surging runes (15% boon duration) it's only 5.75s.

Edit: For my vindi build there's Riposting Shadow in Shiro and Scavenger Burst in Alliance that give fury. Almost enough to keep up fury, I think my main issue is I linger in Alliance for too long. 

Phantom's Onslaught also gives fury even though it's not listed on the tooltip. With 72% boon duration it gives me 15 seconds of fury in armistice bastion using it on a golem

 

Edit:

It actually appears to give 5 seconds per target hit. I was getting 15 seconds from hitting three targets with it.

Edited February 12 by Tulkas.2576