is cerus cm possible? [Merged]

[LINKAZZATORE.8135]

Really welcome changes

 

- hardstuck/teapot group

[Dark Red Killian.3946]

4 hours ago, ZEUStiger.3590 said:

Amazing. More unobtainable achievements, now not just in PvP, but in PvE too. Exactly what this game needed.

I just want a version of this cm that I can learn and complete, and actually want to do it each week for completion. Not a spend 1000 hrs and never do it again. There are so many achievements in the game. This one I can do without.

[Jokuc.3478]

3 hours ago, DeferentUrchin.7064 said:

Even HTCM, you don't need to bring an exact composition of 10 (sadly it requires portals, just like this one!) to make the checks. 

It does not require portals. You can do it perfectly fine without portals, portals just makes it easier. Here's an example of me doing it with no portals.

[Noro.2879]

7 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

I'm back with one more update!

Temple of Febe CM is one of the most difficult pieces of content we've ever released in GW2 and a lot of us here at ArenaNet have been watching the race for world first for the past week. To give you a little more information on what's next: We want to make this CM more widely accessible but also keep the current difficulty level available to those who want it. When we make this adjustment on March 19, we're going to keep the current version permanently available as an option in the Temple of Febe CM.

To celebrate those who successfully clear the current version, anyone who does so—before or after March 19—will be awarded the title Legendary Conqueror of Cerus. This title will be added in the March 19 game update and players who earned it beforehand will receive it retroactively when that update is live. 

I just want to say that this is the ideal solution to me, as someone who really wants to clear the hardest version of the fight but also sees a lot of value in letting a lot more players experience this awesome fight.

Thank you!

[DudeInTheBlack.7629]

7 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

I'm back with one more update!

Temple of Febe CM is one of the most difficult pieces of content we've ever released in GW2 and a lot of us here at ArenaNet have been watching the race for world first for the past week. To give you a little more information on what's next: We want to make this CM more widely accessible but also keep the current difficulty level available to those who want it. When we make this adjustment on March 19, we're going to keep the current version permanently available as an option in the Temple of Febe CM.

To celebrate those who successfully clear the current version, anyone who does so—before or after March 19—will be awarded the title Legendary Conqueror of Cerus. This title will be added in the March 19 game update and players who earned it beforehand will receive it retroactively when that update is live. 

Literally posting on the forums for the first time just to say this is the best news I've heard in a long time. You have no idea how hyped this is getting people who haven't played in a long time and also the word of mouth is spreading fast in other communities.

Edited March 7 by DudeInTheBlack.7629

[DudeInTheBlack.7629]

6 hours ago, Jokuc.3478 said:

I completely agree, I just personally don't care about ap (and I would assume most people who actually do this encounter don't do it for ap either) so if removing ap can stop unnecessary commotion I think that could be something to consider.

Tbh. I think we should just ignore the hyper toxic players who would actually make a big deal out of this. They've been catered to way too much and hold back the game

[aymnad.9023]

While I am happy to see a possible third difficulty for future content and a commitment to keep challenging content I see 1 major issue -> balance seems almost hard locked. It looks super super tight. All composition use virtuoso only. This means that it cannot be nerfed in the future when it is has been a dominant force for a while OR that other professions will get massive buff and break previous content. (EDIT : OR hope that a new strat emerges in the future)

Edited March 7 by aymnad.9023

[kiobamm.4627]

16 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

I'm back with one more update!

Temple of Febe CM is one of the most difficult pieces of content we've ever released in GW2 and a lot of us here at ArenaNet have been watching the race for world first for the past week. To give you a little more information on what's next: We want to make this CM more widely accessible but also keep the current difficulty level available to those who want it. When we make this adjustment on March 19, we're going to keep the current version permanently available as an option in the Temple of Febe CM.

To celebrate those who successfully clear the current version, anyone who does so—before or after March 19—will be awarded the title Legendary Conqueror of Cerus. This title will be added in the March 19 game update and players who earned it beforehand will receive it retroactively when that update is live. 

super glad Anet finally doing real challenges, dont stop here pls

[AliamRationem.5172]

5 hours ago, aymnad.9023 said:

While I am happy to see a possible third difficulty for future content and a commitment to keep challenging content I see 1 major issue -> balance seems almost hard locked. It looks super super tight. All composition use virtuoso only. This means that it cannot be nerfed in the future when it is has been a dominant force for a while OR that other professions will get massive buff and break previous content. (EDIT : OR hope that a new strat emerges in the future)

Or stop making mechanics that favor only ranged with bonus points if you can also portal. 

I don't understand why this is so difficult for the devs in this game.  Let's just officially throw in the towel on not having healers.  You have them.  Okay?  So build the UI and skill support for targeted ranged healing, cleansing, and boon support.  Then start designing your encounters such that ranged DPS have a role other than being exactly the same as melee DPS with bonus damage during split phases.  You know?  Like have them actually play at range with mechanics built into the encounter that specifically require targets at range to handle them?  Then you can let your melee do what they do without having to rely on 31 different flavors of specifically kitten melee as your only way of making encounters challenging.

[Kalendil Istarion.4103]

First.
Congratulations, SnowCrows! Although I dislike these races and the overperformances you get, I have to stand up and sincerely clap your efforts and achievements. Without jokes or sarcarm, I think you do your best to guide the GW2 Community in the most difficult content.

Second.
I feel disappointed about the news in order the Legendary CM mode for Cerus. This is going to lead to a power creep that I think it is against the GW2 philosophy.

Third.
Before posting in this topic, for context, I've checked the oldest qT and SC benchmarks thanks to webbackmachine from archive.org (https://web.archive.org/), I don't remember if there are older ones. At that moment only a few classes with a especific conditions goes over the 40k dps; even more, the realistic condition where about 30k dps and it's considered quite good the 25k mark. In the SnowCrows reddit post, you could check the combat log for CM Cerus. Damage dealers are getting an average of a 34.7k dps; but quickness providers are in 25k dps mark! I remember when you do need to do mechanics in Spirit Vale, now you pass them with dps and overhealing. In addition to this, PvP and WvW have problems for this dps race: damage have increased but life not so much.

Last one.
I think there is no need of a Legendary CM, we can get the same with a finely attunement in all the game, but if this is the way, all classes, with a diversity of builds (not only with one specific kind of weapon), should be able to got these numbers in realistic conditions and be able to perform the different roles in the combat: portals, heals, alacrity, quickness, conditions, damage, etc.

[Cyninja.2954]

1 hour ago, Kalendil Istarion.4103 said:

Second.
I feel disappointed about the news in order the Legendary CM mode for Cerus. This is going to lead to a power creep that I think it is against the GW2 philosophy.

We have had power creep with every single major release since HoT. This legendary CM has nothing to do with that. This has been a often brought up issue in the past, especially since EoD where we had the next huge bump in power creep. Followed by SotO which after some re-tuning had a smaller but still significant power creep bump.

Quote

Third.
Before posting in this topic, for context, I've checked the oldest qT and SC benchmarks thanks to webbackmachine from archive.org (https://web.archive.org/), I don't remember if there are older ones. At that moment only a few classes with a especific conditions goes over the 40k dps; even more, the realistic condition where about 30k dps and it's considered quite good the 25k mark. In the SnowCrows reddit post, you could check the combat log for CM Cerus. Damage dealers are getting an average of a 34.7k dps; but quickness providers are in 25k dps mark! I remember when you do need to do mechanics in Spirit Vale, now you pass them with dps and overhealing. In addition to this, PvP and WvW have problems for this dps race: damage have increased but life not so much.

We had benchmarks at mid 55k before some re-tuning, current benchmarks are at 45-48k again for some classes and you can bet that by the time the next mini expansion hits, we'll be scratching the 50k mark again. Power sells and tying power to expansions and content which needs purchasing leads to sales.

Should it be this way? No, but have you ever looked at the complaints when new elite specializations or abilities get added which are not more powerful than the last? We've had 3-4 such occasions by now.

The best one can hope for is to keep the power creep to a minimum, usually done via re-balancing after some time, yet even that is always faced with complaints and scrutiny because it turns out: players do not like their classes being nerfed.

Quote

Last one.
I think there is no need of a Legendary CM, we can get the same with a finely attunement in all the game, but if this is the way, all classes, with a diversity of builds (not only with one specific kind of weapon), should be able to got these numbers in realistic conditions and be able to perform the different roles in the combat: portals, heals, alacrity, quickness, conditions, damage, etc.

This WOULD lead to power creep. What you are essentially arguing is that any class should be able to handle the highest level of content. That is impossible to balance unless you make all classes perform at or above the needed threshold. There will always be classes which do it slightly better, thus going at it this way those classes would be above the threshold, again bringing power creep.

There is nothing wrong with having the hardest content require specific class compositions. That's where min-maxing output comes in. Any other approach means scaling the content below what min-maxing would be able to achieve, which is where the majority of instanced content in this game is at now )looking at raids, every other strike and strike CM).

Edited March 7 by Cyninja.2954

[Kalendil Istarion.4103]

1 hour ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

We have had power creep with every single major release since HoT. This legendary CM has nothing to do with that. This has been a often brought up issue in the past, especially since EoD where we had the next huge bump in power creep. Followed by SotO which after some re-tuning had a smaller but still significant power creep bump.

We had benchmarks at mid 55k before some re-tuning, current benchmarks are at 45-48k again for some classes and you can bet that by the time the next mini expansion hits, we'll be scratching the 50k mark again. Power sells and tying power to expansions and content which needs purchasing leads to sales.

Should it be this way? No, but have you ever looked at the complaints when new elite specializations or abilities get added which are not more powerful than the last? We've had 3-4 such occasions by now.

The best one can hope for is to keep the power creep to a minimum, usually done via re-balancing after some time, yet even that is always faced with complaints and scrutiny because it turns out: players do not like their classes being nerfed.

This WOULD lead to power creep. What you are essentially arguing is that any class should be able to handle the highest level of content. That is impossible to balance unless you make all classes perform at or above the needed threshold. There will always be classes which do it slightly better, thus going at it this way those classes would be above the threshold, again bringing power creep.

There is nothing wrong with having the hardest content require specific class compositions. That's where min-maxing output comes in. Any other approach means scaling the content below what min-maxing would be able to achieve, which is where the majority of instanced content in this game is at now )looking at raids, every other strike and strike CM).

I appreciate the time you have taken to answer me. I agree with your clarifications overall. I disagree with the last one, i don't think the hardest content require specific class compositions but it doesn't matter, I don't think we get to an agreement but I respect your opinion.

I humbly add one more. Before this new legendary CM, we can argue there is no need for that power creep. Now it's difficult to do it.

[Astralporing.1957]

On 3/6/2024 at 11:35 PM, sbr.8170 said:

Why should the extra hard challenge mode be accommodating to anyone?

Because balancing it for an extremely narrow build choices makes it highly susceptible to future balance changes. Especially with Anet's hammer approach to balancing, which means, for example, condi virtuoso might get relegated to 25k dps next patch if Anet decides it now does a bit too much.

Edited March 7 by Astralporing.1957

[DeferentUrchin.7064]

On 3/7/2024 at 2:53 AM, aymnad.9023 said:

While I am happy to see a possible third difficulty for future content and a commitment to keep challenging content I see 1 major issue -> balance seems almost hard locked. It looks super super tight. All composition use virtuoso only. This means that it cannot be nerfed in the future when it is has been a dominant force for a while OR that other professions will get massive buff and break previous content. (EDIT : OR hope that a new strat emerges in the future)

I just don't want the solution to 'I dont wanna dps this as Virt" to be 'okay well then wait 2+ years when, by chance, a spec/build you like it insanely overpowered this balance patch.' How is that fun? How does that have any integrity? 

[Apfelkuchen.7143]

Thank you for leaving the extra difficult version of this fight in the game as an option, I hope we'll get more of this.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

On 3/7/2024 at 12:41 AM, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

Big congrats to SC for world-first!

 

Why are there so many mesmers in these CM groups? I watched a few streams of Teapot attempting this CM strike and they also ran with mostly mesmers as DPS.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

16 hours ago, TheQuickFox.3826 said:

Why are there so many mesmers in these CM groups? I watched a few streams of Teapot attempting this CM strike and they also ran with mostly mesmers as DPS.

It's Virtuoso.  There's a lot of split mechanics that force all melee builds to disengage for long periods of time.  Virtuoso can do almost all of its damage at range, maintaining DPS throughout all of those mechanics.  Most of Virt's attacks pierce, letting them handle adds and mechanics very easily without losing much damage.  Finallly, Virtuoso has a lot of innate self-sustain due to their traits, and there's high DPS pressure at many points of the fight.  

[ZenDrake.8316]

On 3/13/2024 at 5:30 AM, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

It's Virtuoso.

Don't forget it's a mesmer, and right now, you need portals to handle the malice adds. Only mesmer can bring actually good portals to a fight (Thief portals are just worse in every regard, and scourge portals don't have enough range).

[andreiblue.8231]

On 3/13/2024 at 6:30 AM, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

It's Virtuoso.  There's a lot of split mechanics that force all melee builds to disengage for long periods of time.  Virtuoso can do almost all of its damage at range, maintaining DPS throughout all of those mechanics.  Most of Virt's attacks pierce, letting them handle adds and mechanics very easily without losing much damage.  Finallly, Virtuoso has a lot of innate self-sustain due to their traits, and there's high DPS pressure at many points of the fight.  

I still dont understand why they added a timer when this is the case. Without a timer other strats would have been available, but this way you are contrained to virtuoso because no other dps can do high dps from range while doing mechanics.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

On 3/17/2024 at 10:03 AM, andreiblue.8231 said:

I still dont understand why they added a timer when this is the case. Without a timer other strats would have been available, but this way you are contrained to virtuoso because no other dps can do high dps from range while doing mechanics.

its bad design, they need to make it so that if you have some mechanic you need to do, like teleport to the edge to handle malice, you cannot do any damage to the boss until the mechanic is over or something similar like that.   Then balance the fight around that fact so that melee has a chance to do the fight as well.  I feel like simply lowering the bosses health is the laziest way to fix this fight, and you're still gonna see groups with mandatory classes/build and all others excluded, which i cant imagine is what they intended.

Edited March 20 by Jumpin Lumpix.6108

[andreiblue.8231]

2 hours ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

its bad design, they need to make it so that if you have some mechanic you need to do, like teleport to the edge to handle malice, you cannot do any damage to the boss until the mechanic is over or something similar like that.   Then balance the fight around that fact so that melee has a chance to do the fight as well.  I feel like simply lowering the bosses health is the laziest way to fix this fight, and you're still gonna see groups with mandatory classes/build and all others excluded, which i cant imagine is what they intended.

And the fight is still more than HT CM level of hard even after the health nerf because it still requires at least 4 people doing portals (3 mesmer and 1 scourge) and the only thing easier is not having a dps check as tight, but that's meaningless cuz unless Cerus has no stacks or almost no stacks it will wipe your squad after 10%. The normal CM is too hard for weekly clears, I expect to kill it with my static, but not weekly in the current state, that's for sure.

[Noro.2879]

On 3/17/2024 at 8:03 AM, andreiblue.8231 said:

I still dont understand why they added a timer when this is the case. Without a timer other strats would have been available, but this way you are contrained to virtuoso because no other dps can do high dps from range while doing mechanics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQDUNMDEgQw&start=0

just do it from melee then

[rotten.9753]

8 hours ago, Noro.2879 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQDUNMDEgQw&start=0

just do it from melee then

After soulbeast nerf?

[rotten.9753]

11 hours ago, andreiblue.8231 said:

And the fight is still more than HT CM level of hard even after the health nerf because it still requires at least 4 people doing portals (3 mesmer and 1 scourge) and the only thing easier is not having a dps check as tight, but that's meaningless cuz unless Cerus has no stacks or almost no stacks it will wipe your squad after 10%. The normal CM is too hard for weekly clears, I expect to kill it with my static, but not weekly in the current state, that's for sure.

It wasn't even a health nerf, just the original difficulty that was bugged and ANet thought it would be a good idea to actually buff it's hp even though it was already quite a lot.

[Noro.2879]

On 3/21/2024 at 2:32 AM, rotten.9753 said:

After soulbeast nerf?

I don't see why not? There's a lot of imperfections in our kill. Ironing those out and optimizing builds a little bit more, a kill is definitely still possible. It's possible it wouldn't be as fast is all.

There's also other comps that could reasonably do the exact same strategy as showcased in that video. The comp was originally designed to try and take on empowered gluttony so we had a lot more defensive stats and skills across the whole team than was actually needed. If you don't believe it, why don't you go try yourself?

Edited March 23 by Noro.2879