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Thoughts and feedback for SCEPTER after last patch


arazoth.7290

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++ side: No longer reliant on auto attacks generating stacks change.

+ side: Targeting allies Blossoming Aura change.

- side: Blossoming Aura and Tether bond too long ramp uptime to get final blast and Tether consume off. This isn't reactive enough in emergencies. 

- side: No cleave/aoe damage from Blossoming aura and during the Tether duration against enemies.

- side: Blossoming Aura pulsing directly on allies gives no healing in return since damage is lost.

 

FEEDBACK:

•Auto attack Increase 1 might to 3 might stacks. Thhis might stack increase is in thought with other suggestion changes written down.

 

•Blossoming Aura: Useage improvement against enemies/allies.

Against enemies/allies: 

- Pulsing duration 4 seconds is too long, to apply the end effect. Make it 2 seconds pulsing with 0,5 second intervals instead.

- Make the pulsing effect be like 240 radius aoe. And this aoe effect would be nice if it also did overtime healing.

- If the aoe pulsing effect always would do damage and healing same time and shouldn't matter if you target ally or enemy for it.

- The final blast should be 360 aoe damage and not single target either. The damage should always be around the target, ally or enemy too.

 

•Otherworldy Bond:

In general 6 seconds duration is too long ramp up time too for 6 stacks.

Make it 3 seconds ramp up time for full stacks with 0,5 second intervals. 

 

-Against Enemies: Replace the % damage  increase with pulsing 360 radius aoe damage around the target.

Pulsing intervals are each 0,5 sec over 3 seconds.

-Against Allies: Replace might and fury with protection and resolution boons.

Make it aoe pulse healing in 360 radius also over duration.

Pulsing intervals are each 0,5 sec over 3 seconds.

 

 

•Otherwordly Attraction:

Give minimum 3 seconds time to press it before it disappears.

-Against Enemies: The pull is single target but where it lands make it aoe.

The aoe should give aside vulnerability stacks, 2 seconds root and 3 seconds weakness condition to enemies in the aoe.

-Against Allies: Give it also an aegis stack.

Edited by arazoth.7290
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  • arazoth.7290 changed the title to Thoughts and feedback for SCEPTER after last patch

Otherworldly bond having to target allies to provide boons for only 3 players is a bit of a questionable design decision, having to interrupt your auto attacks (thus interrupting your barrier generation) to manually target an ally before swapping back to hitting the baddies really really interrupts the flow of gameplay when combined with the 3 allied target limit it becomes (IMO) too much hassle for not enough rewards. Should probably act more like scepter 2 in that you target an enemy and it pulses boons around them, having the ally targeting as a backup option for if there are no enemies in range is kinda neat but being forced to use it for boons is pretty bad. Should also probably do something so that Otherworldly Attraction has an actually viewable tooltip.

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Scepter 2 can be applies on allies through walls & keep ticking through walls.

It cant be placed onto enemies through walls (it casts and drains energy, but is "obstructed")

If placed onto an enemy first & going behind a wall, then the pulses of scepter2 keep ticking as "obstructed", even though normally being placed onto the enemy. Most likely a bug and not intended

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It's somehow worse than beta.

The fact that Skill 2 and 3 both have long ramps and an optional "just cancel this stupid thing" button is such a joke.

Skill 2 should be centered on self and automatically explode after a faster ramp.

Skill 3 would be better off being a ground targeted mobility leap to get players into range for their Autos, which is the main feature of the whole weapon. Move the Boon pulsing to Skill 2. 

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I believe originally the focus of skill 3 otherworldy bond was to be a upkeep skill and that they changed it last second they messed up the whole skill. To me personality  I was disappointed with the change. I believe they should have keep it a upkeep skill.

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I am not a fan of skill 1 being almost melee and looking like a sword... We have swords for rev and greatsword, why another "sword"? Also, I have some nice scepter skins I want to use, but they almost invisible with this laser-sword effect. Another thing is, I love idea of being dark mist-mage and casting spells with scepters, especially rev has only two ranged weapons... but that's not a case becouse scepter was made as a laser sword ;/ 

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3 hours ago, Jungario.6485 said:

I am not a fan of skill 1 being almost melee and looking like a sword... We have swords for rev and greatsword, why another "sword"? Also, I have some nice scepter skins I want to use, but they almost invisible with this laser-sword effect. Another thing is, I love idea of being dark mist-mage and casting spells with scepters, especially rev has only two ranged weapons... but that's not a case becouse scepter was made as a laser sword ;/ 

I think the weapon looks cool, big red light saber, but I also agree - it needed to be ranged or at the very least 600 range.  The fact that this  giant red beam only hits 3 people is silly too.  

 

 

does this weapon have any place outside of dedicated support builds?  I want to use it but dont want to play pure heal herald

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I tried revenants scepter after beta to see how it changed but still needs some work. It's still cluncky by not being responsive enough in need by the design, which causes problems. Same it's also lacking in other areas like said below. If they want to continue with the duration pulsing first before the effect goes off it needs 50% faster duration to get it off.

And even if they fix that part, scepter is missing many pointers I have written down and idk how many are missing it to become a good weapon. If only a little bit of barrier nerf was what it took to make it bad, then it is still mechanically flawed. So working on the other pointers I mentioned to make it better.

This is probably mostly in competitive content like WvW/pvp more. But if they worked on it as design better, then it can it work in all contents.

And then it's only at the creativity of the player in which role/build they want to choose it, but different roles should work with it, because it's a versatile weapon to build with.

There might other ways to fix this, so I hope this helps too to get a good conclusion so it works smooth as support and as power weapon if chosen. Atm neither is yet. And make legendary weapons affect the scepter animations tyyyy

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I tried the scepter in raids last tuesday.

Sorry in advance for my harsh writing and my bad english.😉

First, scepter feels like a punishment to play. 😒

Skill 1 Autoattack:

The damage of the autoattack is very bad (even on staff your dmg is much higher), but ok it is a support weapon. Then there is the animation, it definitely feels not good to wield a giant lightsaber! The mightbuff is current not necessary, but mabye it helps healrenegade after the Kalla rework (if playable). Amount of Barrier might be higher, but thats not the mainproblem.

Skill 2 Blossoming Aura:

After all, no giant lightsaber. But waiting 4 seconds for around 2k barrier? Aswell 4 seconds for a mediocre singletarget damage, realy? Ok, but the damaging variant is doing damage over time, in contrast to the supporting varient (it's not healing or pulsing barrier). (every second for four seconds) Why not change it to 2 seconds and 1/2 second interval and turn up the barrier amount or maby the attribute scaling? And please, give the explosion a targetcap of 3 or 5. Since targeting an ally is painfull, its mabye better to rework it as groundtarget, or make it only enemy targeting.

 

SKill 3 Otherworldly Bond:

Allytargeting again... more Might and fury you don't need (might evtl. be needed on healrenegade), but i don't get why only 3 targets? The amount of barrier of the aktiv skill is also way too low for waiting around 4 seconds. Enemytargeting the same ca. 4 seconds waiting for a pull and a few stacks of vulnerability and the good conditions you' re pulsing to late . Ok, you got the damageboost of 10% (+5% each "rank"), but 25% to nothing is nothing. and stacks build up to slow, as i mentioned before. Maby it's possible to puls damage  around the tethered target or adding some aoe condis?

           

Conclusion:

So the scepter is a far away from mediocre Supportweapon with:

1. cleaving Autoattack that do almost no damage compared to other supportweapons. (Staff)

2. an animation on autoattacks that makes you wanna cry

3. almost no / low cc or late cc (since you got a ramp up on skill 3)

4. brings low amount of barrier, releated on Skill 2.

5.  with clunky allytargeting, that makes a spectre jealous.

 

As a main revenant player i feel betrayed, all professions got a playable new weapon. 

Even shortbow on engineer or pistol on elementalist has a better game feeling. 

 On my part, for the next weapon the hype is gone.

What's next? Longbow on melee range and you poke your enemy (targetcap 1) with one arrow?🤣  (sorry, carried the joke for a while)

 

Edited by Tobias.4975
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After the Beta i said its useless after like 5 Min. Today i unlook it and did not even try it. 

We play a Game with 3 Gamemodes. Lets split PvE in 2, open World and Fractals / Raids / Strike Missions, so its 4 Gamemodes. Oh end lets split WvW in GvG and WvW, so its 5 Gamemodes. In every single Gamemode this Weapon finds Player that says its ok / good, or its not. But i dont even see the Point of needing it, because we allready got better Options. This Options iam talking about are other Classes. Now you could say but with the Rev we now get our own way of playing it diffrent,. Yes you could say that. But still, the Meta says and the Meta is the thing that counts in most of all GuildS or LFG Groups, we allready got better Options. Arena Net knows that and did it anyway the Way it is now, so nothing to big will change, because Arena Net dont play the Game but knows it better then the own Playerbase of 5 more, or less diffrent Gamemodes!     

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Thoughts are that I swapped back to mace after about 20 minutes into a small-scale guild run in WvW last night (me as support Vindi). Clunky af and still feels like it's in beta. Lots of waiting to activate the flipover skills, piddling barrier from skill 2 on full Minstrel, easy to accidentally cancel skills or have them fail due to LoS/facing requirements, window for the port for skill 3 is too short. Most of my guildmates seemed at least mildly annoyed at me when placing skill 2 on them, lol. It's not FUBAR, but it could use some serious polishing in terms of its design. Has potential for sure. Please do more work beyond simple numerical adjustments. It seems like y'all (Anet) felt the need to make overly complicated mechanics for the new weapons to make them feel more special, but really I think a lot of that stuff across the weapons feels overdesigned, unpolished, and unnecessarily superfluous.

MEH. 

 

(Did not test on a power build)

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After some thinking and testing. I don't think reducing the ramp uptime duration of skill 2/3 on scepter by a half will fix some problems.

Besides that, it has other problems with like others said too, which not going all over again.

About ally targeting, just skip that. Either make it doing support same time you apply it to the enemy around yourself and the enemy. Or ground targeting, but it needs to get smooth of and not that every cast is about to miss because I fear that might happen otherwise. This is about skill 2,3

Put unblockable on applying Unworldy Bond Tether.

Make auto attack 900 range and rework the auto attack animation to match it up in revenant style. Because the 300 range isn't fitting in the playstyle unless they somehow after ma'y changes make it work, but that isn't the case atm.

 

There is still lot of work to do on scepter, I would call it still in beta by far and NOT COMPLETE yet. It's really a shame how many have nice weapons atm and more finished then revenant...

 

1 honorable mention of disappointment: Scepter has ZERO animations if you wield q legendary scepter to change animations. That I found disappointing too...

 

 

 

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  I used Rev's scepter like 5 minutes in the beta before ditching both the weapon and the beta since didn't found anything interesting there. Now I unlocked it after spending 500 tokens in WvW and played  the scepter for like 4 minutes. I have no clue of what does or why and as with hammer, shield and swords I don't think I will ever touch it again. Seems like the more I play Rev, the less weapons I need to use.

  I have no suggestions about this weapon or future ones for Rev. I plan to put another 30 hours in Las Epoch this weekend, tho.

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Anet could use the electro whip animation from elementalist specter i think on the autos rather the big blob red saber >_> this way could increase slightly its range and the animation would be less clunky and cluttering.,

What i notice using specter in WvW:

- Might on auto attack is useless due how perma boons exist with other traits and classes, add might on already perma max stack might that boon rip cant even rip down due the appliance spam it is useless.

- Barrier values are ok'ish, wonder if could be raised a bit more on skill 2 since we need to use 2 skills for 5k barrier aoe that do nothing else. 

- Skill 2 and 3 are still clunky to play outside pve when there is more enemies and allies.

- Skill 2 should be allowed to be casted on self.

 - Skill 3 teleport to ally it is useless i don't find any gameplay or tactic needed to teleport to ally, i rather use a range heal than teleport to the ally or zone taking damage and put myself on danger, and for something that takes time to build up by applying might on allies already with perma 25 stacks of might? 

And if i am fighting an need to retrieve to an ally positioning the combat with skill 3 while on combat and need to select and ally... it is painfully  clunky the way i need to select an ally in midle of all the clutter of skills or select ally from the team squad UI.

- Skill 3 could pulse small heals and barriers to allies and could become a facet mechanic taking -1 pip of energy, and work like bond monk from gw1.

- The current skill 3  on ally is completely useless in every game mode, the pull on the enemy. it is a pve pull wont work on any of the other gamemodes due mobility and perma boons existent on the game, and in pve defiance bar will be barelly affected.

 

Rate: 4/10

 

 

Edited by Aeolus.3615
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Been using it a fair bit lately in WvW. Finding it pretty tanky with a barrier build, and tbh feels pretty good 1v1 / 1v2. 

I've used the target ally on skill #3 never, just does not seem worth it vs on the enemy (to me at least). I wouldn't like upkeep on it though, personally.

I agree above that people running about with might already being applied via numerous means, and targeting someone to apply the tether too is like he said very bothersome, and well I'd rather put it on the enemy.

Having and ally target you choose that becomes the recipient of a % of barrier that you have might be fun tho. It just flows through while you can still use OWB on the enemy.

But all in all, I'm liking it and still finding the best combos that work for me. Time will tell though

(*EDIT I might just be in the honeymoon phase of a new shiny thing too, but I see potential)

Edited by Santo.2419
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6 hours ago, Lionwait.4815 said:

I still believe skill three should be an upkeep skill or reworked with giving allies boons but for the rest of the skill I love the weapon for WvW.

 I’m still in the camp where drains on weapon skills will lead to too much energy drain and more auto attack only gameplay, but if they did it right who knows. As far as skill 3 goes, I had an idea to combine a port in and port out that encompasses both ideas of their current enemy/ally target. Doesn’t have to use the same animation as death strike, but think of it like that. And then they can bring back the old port backwards off hand sword had in HoT. So you port into your enemy target granting barrier and might/fury/whatever boons to 5 allies around the target. If the skill connects, it flips over to a port backward that pulls your target and applies vuln/slow/whatever conditions. Less bloat, same exact concept, now with added mobility, a tiny bit of risk, and less waiting for support/cc.

For skill 2, make it like staff 2 but as a ground target. No more delay either, or maybe a 1s delay like said staff of tablet skills. It always applies barrier, but if it hits an enemy target it applies more barrier. Please slap regen on it too!

not perfect ideas, but better than this mess

Edited by UncreativeGreen.2019
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Posted (edited)

Let scepter skill 2 and 3 be applied to enemy while the damage/support pulses around them but the user themself always has it around themself giving these effects. So if even no enemy is targetted, you stil apply support/damage around where you move.

This would make things more manageable already. So ally targeting is gone by this and only enemy/aoe around you. It wouldn't give double effects, same like multipble shades on scourge doesn't either.

• Some other issues beside the above how to replace ally targeting and still giving support:

- Scepter auto attack 900 range instead.

Scepter skill 2 The pulsing damage should be halved to 2 seconds but 0,5 second interval and aoe to enemies/allies. Pulsing should give aoe damage/healing and the final blast should besides aoe barrier, also aoe damage.

- Scepter skill 3

*The tether duration halved to 3 seconds duration but 0,5 second intervals for reaching 6 stacks. And unblockable applied.

*Tether damage increase on enemies replaced with pulsing aoe damage/healing around the enemy/user. 

*Replace pulsing might/fury with resolution/protection boons.

*Tether consume skill pulls the enemy if targeted or nearby enemy in 360 radius if not targeted and 2 second root on enemies in 360 radius around user. Around 360 radius user/enemy, allies get barrier and aegis.

Edited by arazoth.7290
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Final idea and numbers wise how much it puts out can be balanced, but atleast it will be mechanically strong. And then only some numbers in future to give it the right balance, not OP and not weak but it can fit more builds.

 

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If scepter would be completely ranged support it would have been a good option. At the moment, staff if better in every way. More CC, cleanse, more healing with combo finishers and a block.

On top of that the are pushing so much spread mechanics these days. Range don't sacrifice anything during all raid/fractal/strikes encounters and they keep nerfing melee builds...
They would need to give scepter a decent mobility skill, chill/confusion application, some kind of temporary invulnerability or really good CC to compete with any other weapon we already have.

In the beta the perma slow at least was a nice thing to have. Right now it serves no purpose at all.

edit:  Just an idea. How about #2 skill store the dmg taken for few seconds then you can unleash it back at your enemy at something like 50% of the dmg. It could also be on #3 skill while you are bond to your enemy target, x% of the dmg you take is directed to the enemy and any control effect you suffer is shared with the target. If it's an ally, x% of the healing or barrier your receive goes to that person.

Edited by Vekaiel.8493
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I don't know how to feel about this weapon. It feels slow and lacks impact. The boons and condis are too situational and low to even make a difference. Ramp up time is slow. Damage is lower than autoattacks on a greatsword or sword and the extra melee range does not feel like it makes up for the lack of mobility and sluggish weapon that's designed literally around canceling your attacks.

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Been running it instead of Mace on Heal Vindi in WvW. The only reason I'm a fan of it is because it's overall a better support weapon than the mace, but it still feels very lackluster. First and foremost, the ramp up time vs benefits feels absolutely horrible. Some fights, I really wondered if I was actually doing anything useful swapping to scepter for a bit. Scepter 3 feels weird. You have to face your target, which is fine, but in some of our bigger fights, I was forgetting which flip icon was which, cancelling my tether early instead of teleporting to tag. I also wish Blossoming Aura applied to myself as well while it's on someone else. Basically, I really hate having to target friendlies, and I don't like the effects being on such long timers, when they feel weak in the first place. I think the scepter is good, but it's more like an excuse to swap to shield for a bit, instead of camping staff, which doesn't feel like a good design. 

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Maybe an unpopular opinion but I was kinda hoping this weapon would basically be the ranged and support version of mace...  Having an option for a condition heal instead of power would have opened up some doors for more diversity among high end builds - when I saw the weapon was a power support weapon MELEE weapon, i was disappointed.  THEN when I saw it wasn't even good and incredibly clunky to use my disappointment turned into looking at other mains.   

 

Also - this has been said, but Im gonna say it again - if you have a giant red beam sword visually cleaving through enemies, it should hit more than 3 targets.  The weapon is like an awkward teen who hasn't hit puberty and needs to grow into it's facial features to look normal.

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