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I wanted to write about how the different professions I use, currently are holding up in each of the 3 game modes, please do note that I have not taking warrior, revenant, mesmer and engineer into consideration, since I have not played them. This is mainly written for people who are new, or existing players that only play with 1-2 different professions. This game generally have a very low skill cap, if you basically know the big moves on each profession, that is when you dodge, and that is why most match ups usually ends up somewhat how you would have guessed i., No matter, if people got the "ego effect" or not. This thread is generally meant to be the "best of the best players" thing, basically elite who solo arah just to see if it possible with a necro

Elementalist, Overall decent, very good generally for most casesSPvP: Below average, mainly is placed on mid or low tierPvE: Very good, can be used on all aspects of the game, and usually everyone looks for multiple ElesWvW: Also very good, always looked for as in back-line, and very good for loot drop

Thief is usually the fun class, mainly solo and very hard to que up in any PvE stuff, unless if the participant dont really care who joins (like dungeons, or guilds)SPvP: I would say high tier, but mainly depends on the opponents composition, at the very least it is fun to playPvE: as mentioned, it is hard to que up for anything, and if u are running meta (which you should as being the best of the best, surviving will in general be harder than other classesWvW: mainly roaming, there are of cause guilds with small "death squads" but it is basically picking on the people who generally dont want to fight us

Guard, standard good to everything, beside maybe raiding where there are only need for them in certain circumstancesSPvP: Guards are here probably on the mid of the food chain, dont die to quickly, but can people who are unaware quicklyPvE: In general good, but as mentioned in Raiding it is very dependant on the circumstancesWvW: guards are required to be front line in WvW, so they are very needed

Necromancer, Generally the best class to PvP with right now, huge outcome of the damage without being too easy to take down also a good PvE presence and WvWSPvP: clearly Nr 1 here, if I am going SPvP I always choose necro for easy win, condi as it is right now, is quiet good. They are generally also impressively good in 1v1PvE: Also generally good, many people need condi and necro fits the role perfectlyWvW: Necros are required for dmg output, since condi is quiet....OP atm

Ranger, generally good for getting fast into any raiding, though they do lack a role in WvW and somewhat bad in SPvPSPvP: As mentioned above, rangers might not be the worst, but they are without a doubt close to the worst class to do SPvP with, unless if 1v1PvE: Rangers/Druids are a good source to get healing done, therefor people are always looking for them in raiding, they also hold their own in PvE environment without dying to quick with petWvW: Rangers are currently only solo roamers, the "WvW fights" generally do not need any rangers.

(If I did not make this clear previously, this is generally based on how the meta is at the moment. In other words, it is not based on rare occasions where the other player might have had mouse problems, or if the necro ran with a exotic cele build in a 1v1 match, that might not have been up to par with the rest, it is basically the best builds compared against/with each other, as the meta is right now, and how it feels like playing with each of them as a player who have played with them for around 4-5 years.)

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An interesting view of how you feel the classes stand currently, but I'm honestly failing to see how this in any way can be considered comprehensive when you have missed out four of the nine classes altogether.For example, warrior has been a solid choice for any game mode (dependent on build) - 95% of raids will have one and it is considered very strong in sPVP with current META build. Mesmer is also a highly desirable class both pvp and pve - so not including this is a sin in itself. Being honest, I don't have a good overview on Engi and Rev is less relevant.

I wouldn't want to criticize too much as it seems you've put some effort into this, however it's not clear who this post is targeted at.On a side note :~ brand new players are highly unlikely to be jumping into raids within the first few months, by which point they will have a much better idea of classes anyway and most likely have tried more than one.

tldr: your post seems to be lacking in key areas.

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I think it's worth noting that prior to PoF, the elementalist had been one of the most consistently A list classes in SPvP, stretching pretty much all the way back to launch. The reason it has fallen out of favor is nothing to do with the ele itself, but that the elementalist is reliant on boons for its defense, DPS, and support, and they just added in half a dozen specs that punish you for having boons.

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@zengara.8301 said:ElementalistMy problem with Elementalist is that they're too glass cannon.

ThiefEh... I guess I'll give Daredevil a try once. Right now I don't feel "OP"

GuardSomeone will need to tell me how to be OP with this one as if I get in the face of an enemy with conditions, I'm melting.Especially in PoF.

NecromancerI plead the fifth.

RangerI die way too quickly on this class.

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elementalistPvE: always been the boss herePvP: a bit underwhelming atmWvW: all 3 spec useful

engineerPvE: overly complicated, making it a rare choicePvP: Used to be better, only stand thanks to a strong burst spec atmWvW: can do anything but don't really shine

guardianPvE: Quite strong with quite a lot of damage packed.PvP: Very strong at the momentWvW: meta since day1

mesmerPvE: meta since HoT but it can be weary to use it.PvP: Strong burst and survivability atmWvW: strong in roaming, may struggle in zerg

NecromancerPvE: Never had strong points for this game mode, only used there for the epidemic gimmick (most won't take a necro in raid)PvP: Domineering at the momentWvW: always meta in there

rangerPvE: Loved child of anetPvP: seem ok atmWvW: Finally able to zerg v zerg without penality

revenantPvE: have it place here...PvP: best to forgetWvW: meta hammer train

ThiefPvE: good damage, sufficient survivabilityPvP: still strong in this areaWvW: strong roamer but struggle in large fight

warriorPvE: Still meta, average damagePvP: struggled to reach it's current state which is not that badWvW: long time meta, struggle in ship wars.

I think it's more like that. If you are new, the easiest choice to be "op" is still the guardian. Guardian never disappoint with it's straightforward gameplay. (Still it wouldn't be bad to see quite a few change on the guardian, as a profession it's a steady and resilient one that find it's place in all gamemodes and don't have "bad reputation")

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I agree with @MarshallLaw.9260 i can't see how this thread is going to help new players when you have missed off 4 classes and the information you have given could become invalid in a month's time. Also can we not force the meta down new player's throats like this? Can we not just let them play what they want and discover what works on their own, rather than telling them at the very start which class they should play?

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i only know PvE so that's all i can talk about.

necromancerpretty much an easy mode in PvE, you can survive even the worst attacks and keep groups together.for solo play this profession is a challenge at first but after some practice you can blindfold tyria, do take reaper if you want to really rule the battlefield.

rangerthis profession is the more challenging one, it takes quite some skill to stay alive and it depends on the pet most of the time.for group play it is a perfect AOE DPS dealer with a wide area of control, take this profession if you like a more direct but glass cannon approach.

i can do the rest tomorrow.

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@sorudo.9054 said:i only know PvE so that's all i can talk about.

necromancerpretty much an easy mode in PvE, you can survive even the worst attacks and keep groups together.for solo play this profession is a challenge at first but after some practice you can blindfold tyria, do take reaper if you want to really rule the battlefield.

rangerthis profession is the more challenging one, it takes quite some skill to stay alive and it depends on the pet most of the time.for group play it is a perfect AOE DPS dealer with a wide area of control, take this profession if you like a more direct but glass cannon approach.

i can do the rest tomorrow.

My Necro from start to current has mostly always been a solo class.I'm a minion master, though.

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@Zaklex.6308 said:I have a better solution, just let the new people play the way they want and ignore the Meta and people that pretend to be "elitist"(such as the OP).

It's these people who wind up on the forums complaining their class sucks when it really doesn't. The Meta is just an everydayman's guide to how a profession should be played mathmatically, simply by reading a short step-by-step blurp that introduces a person into the class.

This is a convenience, not a hindrance. Qtfy or Metabattle are easy to read (mostly), and have some nice gameplay tips. You don't have to follow them, but when you die for the upteenth time against a boss, you at least have a start point for figuring out what went wrong before yelling "HAX".

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@Westenev.5289 said:

@Zaklex.6308 said:
I have a better solution, just let the new people play the way they want and ignore the Meta and people that pretend to be "elitist"(such as the OP).

It's these people who wind up on the forums complaining their class sucks when it really doesn't. The Meta is just an everydayman's guide to how a profession should be played mathmatically, simply by reading a short step-by-step blurp that introduces a person into the class.

This is a convenience, not a hindrance. Qtfy or Metabattle are easy to read (mostly), and have some nice gameplay tips. You don't have to follow them, but when you die for the upteenth time against a boss, you at least have a start point for figuring out what went wrong before yelling "HAX".

Yes, but remember that this thread is designed to help brand new players, and when you are brand new to the game, the last thing you want is to see all the wonderful options available in the game only to be told "you can only play x build". Contrary to some people's beliefs, sometimes players just want to play stuff that appeals to them. I would go on a rant about the meta but then I'd get another warning from the mods for being "too mean" to other people, so I'll just say that as a relatively new player to the game myself, I am sick of people telling me what I can and cannot play in this game.

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@Wandering Mist.2973 said:

@Westenev.5289 said:

@Zaklex.6308 said:
I have a better solution, just let the new people play the way they want and ignore the Meta and people that pretend to be "elitist"(such as the OP).

It's these people who wind up on the forums complaining their class sucks when it really doesn't. The Meta is just an everydayman's guide to how a profession should be played mathmatically, simply by reading a short step-by-step blurp that introduces a person into the class.

This is a convenience, not a hindrance. Qtfy or Metabattle are easy to read (mostly), and have some nice gameplay tips. You don't have to follow them, but when you die for the upteenth time against a boss, you at least have a start point for figuring out what went wrong before yelling "HAX".

Yes, but remember that this thread is designed to help brand new players, and when you are brand new to the game, the last thing you want is to see all the wonderful options available in the game only to be told "you can only play x build". Contrary to some people's beliefs, sometimes players just want to play stuff that appeals to them. I would go on a rant about the meta but then I'd get another warning from the mods for being "too mean" to other people, so I'll just say that as a relatively new player to the game myself, I am sick of people telling me what I can and cannot play in this game.

As a new player, I started as a Warrior, a Mesmer and a Thief. I "played as I wanted" - a sword/shield warrior, a staff mesmer, a sword/pistol thief (lol, shortbows are for noobs, right?)

Needless to say, I had a VERY bad time.

I see people all the time who have similar experiences - and I do my best to help explain their class, their mechanics, their tools. Freedom of choice is a poison in this game... and I don't think players should be encouraged to explore this. They should explore what works - that's what is fun.

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@Westenev.5289 said:Freedom of choice is a poison in this game... and I don't think players should be encouraged to explore this. They should explore what works - that's what is fun.

A rather bold statement about freedom of choice. I would say that this is probably not the opinion of the general community.While there are new players who would want to know the META builds immediately, I'm sure there are also those who prefer to experiment and find out for themselves. Certainly, if you're having a "hard time", by all means seek advice but remember you also have the option to read tooltips and figure these things out for yourself.

It is a strong stance to discourage new players from learning on their own and just being spoon-fed "how to play this game". I agree that META is exactly what is it - most effective tactic available - but not the only way to play.

Getting back on topic - the original post is in no way a good guide eg: what information from statements like this?(below) Rather bland and uninformative.

@zengara.8301 said:Elementalist, Overall decent, very good generally for most cases

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If you are new and want to be OP want to have fun choose...... ENGINEER. :)

@Westenev.5289 said:Freedom of choice is a poison in this game... and I don't think players should be encouraged to explore this. They should explore what works - that's what is fun.

I disagree. Fun is relative. I don't want to be a clone (aka meta), I don't want to use the same builds, the same rotations, that's extremely boring and lame. I prefer my own builds. But I'm an open world player and I do what I want in the open world because no one can kick me out of maps for not playing meta. :P And all the squishy meta people need me anyway because they get downed in 1 hit and I must revive them all the kitten time... :)

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@OP, atWvW related thats wayt to 2012, any class now can be frontline, all that matters is the lure bait and AOE spam + massive condi spike, the more aoe your whole groups ahs the better for the lure spikes.

Being guardian or warrior they wont stand a chance if lured....even downstate will be less than a second.

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@MarshallLaw.9260 said:

@Westenev.5289 said:Freedom of choice is a poison in this game... and I don't think players should be encouraged to explore this. They should explore what works - that's what is fun.

A rather bold statement about freedom of choice. I would say that this is probably not the opinion of the general community.While there are new players who would want to know the META builds immediately, I'm sure there are also those who prefer to experiment and find out for themselves. Certainly, if you're having a "hard time", by all means seek advice but remember you also have the option to read tooltips and figure these things out for yourself.

It is a strong stance to discourage new players from learning on their own and just being spoon-fed "how to play this game". I agree that META is exactly what is it - most effective tactic available - but not the only way to play.

Getting back on topic - the original post is in no way a good guide eg: what information from statements like this?(below) Rather bland and uninformative.

@zengara.8301 said:
Elementalist
, Overall decent, very good generally for most cases

It also REALLY depends what mode you are playing. If you are playing Ranked PvP, you're probably going to have a bad time by straying too far away from the meta compositions, as they are really highly formulated and tweaked to provide maximum advantage for you and your team. The fact that sPvP is a conquest mode, where you capture and control points for score more than killing and fighting other players, the most important thing is not how well you duel but rather how well you contribute to that goal.

If you are playing WvW, you have more diversity in your playstyle because you also have more options as to role per class. More diversity "works" in this mode. Things that would never be viable in standard pvp suddenly become so as you can focus on survivability and mobility over damage for someone who defends capture areas primarily and mans siege, or focus on survivability and conditions as a solo roamer and duelist, or someone who focuses on heavy AoE damage or heavy AoE support when running with a zerg. Sometimes category one can also be zerg if they are focused in WvW skill tracks to man seige and carry supply.

If you're in standard general PvE, or even Dungeoning (yes I know, dead game mode... don't care) then yes just about anything you want to base your build off of can work as long as you know the mechanics. If you're talking high end PvE like t3/4 Fractals and Raids, you'll want to look more at that "helping your team" thing a bit more, and the Meta compositions become a little more important (though not as end all/be all as some might suggest. Remember the metas are for absolute optimum runs, but I'd rather take someone slightly off-meta who knows all the mechanics well and can play their class than someone who is absolutely meta built but doesn't understand the class or playstyle quite as well. Some people are just better suited, mentally or even physically where handicaps are concerned, to specific play styles that don't always perfectly fit the meta.) and you should at minimum know the metas and build from them in those cases.

Can you just throw together random traits and skills and still play the game, even the easiest base aspects? Probably not... but if you actually read the traits and figure out how they interact, you can usually pick a few things that you really like the feel of per class and then select traits and skills that compliment those things and make something that works out well. THIS is the most important thing... by its nature any build you want to run needs structure of some kind to compliment itself, but "play as you want" does still apply in that in certain game modes you can pick, say, any base weapon type or core class mechanic and find a way to make it work for you as long as you do it smart.

In any MMO in existance, even the ones with the most diverse play styles and "play as you want" functionality, this is going to remain true. There will 100% ALWAYS be optimum rotations, optimum setups or optimum gear. That doesn't mean the game isn't playable without it, but it does mean you may be locked out of certain types of content if you choose to completely ignore that. And in NONE of them can you just stick random crap together and go "this is fine..." You always will have to at least choose some things that are able to function together rather than things that directly contradict one another. This is spoken as someone who loves to build-craft off-meta. I have a number of builds that go so far in to "wtf" territories that you would think they can't function, and yet there is no base game pve content that they can't complete, or there are times when those are so specifically put together that they hard-counter other solo roamers in WvW, etc. because of their off the wall nature, and the fact that people are not used to dealing with the class played in that particular way. For a more public example of so strange it works, I suggest checking out World of Enders and his series "Bootts Bad Builds" on YouTube.

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@Westenev.5289 said:

@Westenev.5289 said:

@Zaklex.6308 said:
I have a better solution, just let the new people play the way they want and ignore the Meta and people that pretend to be "elitist"(such as the OP).

It's these people who wind up on the forums complaining their class sucks when it really doesn't. The Meta is just an everydayman's guide to how a profession should be played mathmatically, simply by reading a short step-by-step blurp that introduces a person into the class.

This is a convenience, not a hindrance. Qtfy or Metabattle are easy to read (mostly), and have some nice gameplay tips. You don't have to follow them, but when you die for the upteenth time against a boss, you at least have a start point for figuring out what went wrong before yelling "HAX".

Yes, but remember that this thread is designed to help brand new players, and when you are brand new to the game, the last thing you want is to see all the wonderful options available in the game only to be told "you can only play x build". Contrary to some people's beliefs, sometimes players just want to play stuff that appeals to them. I would go on a rant about the meta but then I'd get another warning from the mods for being "too mean" to other people, so I'll just say that as a relatively new player to the game myself, I am sick of people telling me what I can and cannot play in this game.

As a new player, I started as a Warrior, a Mesmer and a Thief. I "played as I wanted" - a sword/shield warrior, a staff mesmer, a sword/pistol thief (lol, shortbows are for noobs, right?)

Needless to say, I had a VERY bad time.

I see people all the time who have similar experiences - and I do my best to help explain their class, their mechanics, their tools. Freedom of choice is a poison in this game... and I don't think players should be encouraged to explore this. They should explore what works - that's what is fun.

the only problem I would see is if those that see things that work, but they aren't having fun or comfy with it, then problems happen that they simply will start hating the game if they can't find a working class that they find fun.

Like if someone finds Guardian as a Paladin and find Sword/Shield as fun, but then tell them about Dragonhunter or Firebrand and showing them stuff like the Sceptre or Sword or Torch or Axe and such and then they go "Eh.. but I don't like a class like this" then they move onto the next and then the same issue, then the same, then the same... not sure if they will be enjoying themselves.

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@Westenev.5289 said:Needless to say, I had a VERY bad time.

Excelsior.And you did never really figure out there might be a problem? I had two times a hard time as well, once on my engineer when I had totally bad gear stats all mixed up (mind me I just hit 80 and did not bother before to streamline into a certain playstyle) and once when I - still not sure how that could happen - I ran Deadeye with Daredevil traits. Eh... But you are basically saying "I had a hard time, but I still went on?".

I seeked for help via PM to several people and reading a thread on the boards and matched it up with my gameplay style. No need to read guides, follow meta stuff and such.

But else, nope, I play how I want. Way before Pistol Pistol was "in" and "trend" (at least what I caught on the forums), I was using it. Not actually participating in those threads, I was the super uber "n00b" amongst all these "l33t pr0skill0rz". But I made it trough my journeys, and I realized quickly that I do not give a f...k about all the stress people do to themselves to be said "best of the best". Now, apparently shortbow turned awesome again, or maybe I just got that wrong. But seriously, whatever.

Look, I am a rifle Deadeye. OH NO! TOO BAD, AND USELESS!! Eh, nope. Is it that bad? Not at all. Just because people can't use it properly to get their stuff done it does not mean I am as bad or that I can not get my stuff done. What's worth the best guide when you have not the skills to actually perform that theorycrafted won't-happen-ingame scenarios or when you flatout hate to play like that? EDIT: Unbelievable, Ayumi Spender said it right above me. Should've read the whole thread first...

I heavilly approve the most upvoted message in this thread so far in the first page: Let people play their way. Eventually, they will change their situation if it's too bad to get you through the game, or they just succeed.

Greetings,Zedexx, Rifle Deadeye and Dual Daggers with Signet of Malice as healing slot. <- GASP!!

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@Droughboi.2945 said:I think you forgot some classes....

Was that on purpose?

Zengara left out those professions he/she doesn't play. You also have to consider not all professions can be OP.Really, for true OP I think listing 4 professions is much... IMO there are like 3 specific OP builds out there, the rest moves between decent or abismal...

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