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Shadow Portal Nerf


Omegacide.8649

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  • Shadow Portal: This skill no longer breaks stun.

Y'ALL SLEPT ON THIS  ^^^^  Mark my words.

I'm not sure y'all realize that they are breaking core thief again (definitely elite specs too). I recently came back after the WILD relic introduction that caused me to take a long break.

Proper thieves understand the two bread and butter concepts to be exceptionally stealthy: The entry plan and the exit plan. SHADOW PORTAL was the one way to guarantee successful escape for the squishiest class in the game. Exceptional thieves plant Shadow Portal before they engage, they assess the situation while in stealth, then strike when the opportunity is RIPE. When the battle becomes a third party situation, you bounce out with Shadow Portal. But now, you'll take your proper lumps or carry smoke bomb, which doesn't really move you from A to B without getting AOE'd to death. I know many thieves in general did not take this (from combat experience), but it was their loss.

Now Shadow Portal is literally only useful if you combo a SEPARATE BREAKOUT then use Shadow Portal. This is idiotic. It ain't Happen'n. Now, outside of  TP your group inside structures in WvW, its a useless skill come March 19th. Thanks ANET, lets just make thief a different profession and call it "Ruffian" and give it a greatsword 🤢

Edited by Omegacide.8649
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19 hours ago, Omegacide.8649 said:
  • Shadow Portal: This skill no longer breaks stun.

Y'ALL SLEPT ON THIS  ^^^^  Mark my words.

SHADOW PORTAL was the one way to guarantee successful escape for the squishiest class in the game.

i think for that purpose the change wont do much. as mesmer portal is not a stunbreak but can be opened while stunned and even used while still stunned, because it is like opening thief portal an instant ability.

however sometimes you might just want a stunbreak and not a full disengage, that it wont be able to do anymore.

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18 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Giving teefs a portal was a mistake in the first place. It should be deleted.

↑ Agree with this.

PvE functionality won't really be affected by this change at all so it still has a use for skips/jumping puzzles/whatever.
In WvW 99% of the time it just enables gremlin behavior. Making thieves work a little harder to troll around (we already have plenty of other tools available) doesn't seem like the end of the world.

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Posted (edited)

YOU SEE... this is why we can't have anything nice. This is why ANET balances the game per their own preference and/or the top 0.01% of cases. Ever heard of "I think its a skill issue"? Just because you don't catch the thief doesn't mean its broken. We all got roles to play in this ridiculous ecosystem.

The idea is that thief has near to no stability, no block (worth using/long CD), no "damage absorbed as healing", no real way to deal with pressure other than invis + tele. The CORE reason for why people are annoyed by thieves, is their existence. If a thief isn't intentionally the hardest class to catch, then what's the point? A Mesmer is the illusions class that's built around smoke and mirrors, and the concept is that their illusions and magic "mesmerize" their opponent for survivability. They get:

  • Invisibility
  • Stability
  • Warps
  • Blinks
  • Blocks
  • Illusions/Floating Daggers(?)
  • Distortion
  • Evades
  • Breakouts
  • BOONS AND MORE

Thieves get:

  • Invisibility
  • Warp 😇
  • Blink
  • Evades
  • Breakouts 

So when you take away one of the thief's breakouts, it cuts DEEP into our survivability. I don't see how anyone could argue "Thief could use less slippery tricks to survive" 💀

23 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Giving teefs a portal was a mistake in the first place. It should be deleted.

Again, all we got is teleports and invisibility to survive. If thief shouldn't have warps, why should they even blink? Its the same thing, albeit it takes other party members across as well. Also, what makes Mesmer special enough to HAVE warps?

4 hours ago, Eugenides.1274 said:

Making thieves work a little harder to troll around (we already have plenty of other tools available) doesn't seem like the end of the world.

I feel like y'all missing the part where losing a stun break immensely hurts the thief whom already struggles to stay relevant outside of going full glass cannon. So we're just going to ignore perma stability + cycled block punish builds, which enable people to never die in 1 vs (n+1) WvW?

Its these type of nerfs that force thieves towards predictable builds. UNPREDICTABILITY is all we got.

 

Edited by Omegacide.8649
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You can still activate and take the portal to get away, even when stunned. The reason why the stun break was removed is because before you could activate the portal to break a stun and then not take the portal, which was clearly not intended by Anet.

Edited by Rico.5710
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4 hours ago, Omegacide.8649 said:

Again, all we got is teleports and invisibility to survive. If thief shouldn't have warps, why should they even blink? Its the same thing, albeit it takes other party members across as well. Also, what makes Mesmer special enough to HAVE warps?

The highest amount of teleports, stealth and evasion out of all classes in the entire game*
Fixed it for you. On top of that: CC's, boon rip, instant stomp, block.
With all of that A-net has decided to give it a PORTAL, to a class with pretty much an infinite stealth uptime combined with high mobility and evades. Ridiculous.
It is the most kittenous class as a whole since 2012. 

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6 hours ago, Omegacide.8649 said:

YOU SEE... this is why we can't have anything nice. This is why ANET balances the game per their own preference and/or the top 0.01% of cases. Ever heard of "I think its a skill issue"? Just because you don't catch the thief doesn't mean its broken. We all got roles to play in this ridiculous ecosystem.

The idea is that thief has near to no stability, no block (worth using/long CD), no "damage absorbed as healing", no real way to deal with pressure other than invis + tele. The CORE reason for why people are annoyed by thieves, is their existence. If a thief isn't intentionally the hardest class to catch, then what's the point? A Mesmer is the illusions class that's built around smoke and mirrors, and the concept is that their illusions and magic "mesmerize" their opponent for survivability. They get:

  • Invisibility
  • Stability
  • Warps
  • Blinks
  • Blocks
  • Illusions/Floating Daggers(?)
  • Distortion
  • Evades
  • Breakouts
  • BOONS AND MORE

Thieves get:

  • Invisibility
  • Warp 😇
  • Blink
  • Evades
  • Breakouts 

So when you take away one of the thief's breakouts, it cuts DEEP into our survivability. I don't see how anyone could argue "Thief could use less slippery tricks to survive" 💀

Again, all we got is teleports and invisibility to survive. If thief shouldn't have warps, why should they even blink? Its the same thing, albeit it takes other party members across as well. Also, what makes Mesmer special enough to HAVE warps?

I feel like y'all missing the part where losing a stun break immensely hurts the thief whom already struggles to stay relevant outside of going full glass cannon. So we're just going to ignore perma stability + cycled block punish builds, which enable people to never die in 1 vs (n+1) WvW?

Its these type of nerfs that force thieves towards predictable builds. UNPREDICTABILITY is all we got.

 

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with anything you're saying here, but I think you're picking the wrong hill to plant your flag. I run minimal stealth on sword builds and have no problem getting out of combat without shadow portal, and it's not lost any of it's functionality as a port by not being a stunbreak (if it's still instant cast, you can still use it while stunned, just like signets etc). Honestly it is debatable whether giving thief a 5 man port was a good idea in the first place, so losing the stunbreak was a fair change. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Fixed it for you. On top of that: CC's, boon rip, instant stomp, block.

I mean, Mesmer has CC that's hands down better, and more encompassing. They also have more boon rip... But this isn't even the main point.

Thief should excel at something. Why not keep breakout functionality?  Thief does negligible DPS outside of literal glass cannon. Why do you think ANET is buffing rifle and pistol? Also food for thought:

July 16, 2019 - Shadow Portal has been added to the game.

So why is this an issue now? It's been nearly 5 years. If you can still presumably take the warp while stunned, why is the breakout legitimately an issue? I haven't heard one actual use case where it's broken.

 How about spellbreaker pull/chain through WvW doors/evades/blocks despite no line-of-sight? I guess that's not an actual issue that's game/mechanic breaking 🤢.

You can't deny that this is a SINGULAR moment in balance patches, in which the devs cherry picked a moment in WvW/PvP, that felt to them intolerable.

Edited by Omegacide.8649
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Just now, Omegacide.8649 said:

I mean, Mesmer has CC that is hands down better, and more encompassing. They also have more boon rip... But this isn't even the main point.

Thief should excel at something. Why not keep breakout functionality?  Thief does negligible DPS outside of literal glass cannon. Why do you think ANET is buffing rifle and pistol? Also food for thought:

July 16, 2019 - Shadow Portal has been added to the game.

So why is this an issue now? It's been nearly 5 years. If you can still presumably take the warp while stunned, why is the breakout legitimately an issue? I haven't heard one actual use case where it's broken.

 How about spellbreaker pull/chain through WvW doors/evades/blocks despite no line-of-sight? I guess that's not an actual issue that's game/mechanic breaking 🤢.

You can't deny that this is a SINGULAR moment in balance patches, in which the devs cherry picked a moment in WvW/PvP, that felt to them intolerable.

Mesmer doesn't have better CC than teef, where did you get such idea?
Teefs has very good/high damage, even too good for all the evades, teleports and stealth access, on top of that DE has Rifle which on a class with so much bs mechanics adds another layer of bs to the equation. Teefs already excel in "jump-in > damage > jump-out" playstyle, peak cowardice gameplay, only dies for being too gredy.
It's always been an issue though, just because you didn't notice it, doesn't mean it wasn't an issue. Was always disgusted by idea of giving teefs any form of portal. Same bs like 1.2/1.5 range Rifle, stealth on dodge, reveal removal on elite (yeye, removed, still bs idea that somehow went through on release), additional evade that can be customized.
I've pulled ppl while playing DH through "doors" or to be more accurate I've pulled them through the portal, could be also true for Spellbonker. You need to remember that once you get hit by tether, it can yank you in middle of your evades. Try not walking straight from your portal next time and you'll avoid most of that bs. Although there are more problematic pulls than these 2 classes, like Necromancers GS or Mesmers Focus that can reach from questionable positions.
Don't try to find logic in A-net balance decisions, otherwise if there was some sort of logical thought, the game would look completely different with skill being pushed onto player fingers instead of traits of a class.

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43 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Mesmer doesn't have better CC than teef, where did you get such idea?
Teefs has very good/high damage, even too good for all the evades, teleports and stealth access, on top of that DE has Rifle which on a class with so much bs mechanics adds another layer of bs to the equation. Teefs already excel in "jump-in > damage > jump-out" playstyle, peak cowardice gameplay, only dies for being too gredy.
It's always been an issue though, just because you didn't notice it, doesn't mean it wasn't an issue. Was always disgusted by idea of giving teefs any form of portal. Same bs like 1.2/1.5 range Rifle, stealth on dodge, reveal removal on elite (yeye, removed, still bs idea that somehow went through on release), additional evade that can be customized.
I've pulled ppl while playing DH through "doors" or to be more accurate I've pulled them through the portal, could be also true for Spellbonker. You need to remember that once you get hit by tether, it can yank you in middle of your evades. Try not walking straight from your portal next time and you'll avoid most of that bs. Although there are more problematic pulls than these 2 classes, like Necromancers GS or Mesmers Focus that can reach from questionable positions.
Don't try to find logic in A-net balance decisions, otherwise if there was some sort of logical thought, the game would look completely different with skill being pushed onto player fingers instead of traits of a class.

Stealth on dodge is dumb, but the rest of your rant doesn't hold up. Everyone has the same amount of slots to fill and if a player fills those slots with mitigation, then that's a build choice you apparently didn't match up to or counter. Making use of space and positioning is cowardly how? Of course thieves excel at what they were designed for. Stop making excuses for yourself and think about what you're filling your slots with. 

I don't know if you're trolling or trying to be funny but you give all that advice about how to counter another class but you got nothing for a class that can get shook by cleaves, interrupts, and kiting including while they're stealthed. 

Edited by kash.9213
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2 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

Stealth on dodge is dumb, but the rest of your rant doesn't hold up. Everyone has the same amount of slots to fill and if a player fills those slots with mitigation, then that's a build choice you apparently didn't match up to or counter. Making use of space and positioning is cowardly how? Of course thieves excel at what they were designed for. Stop making excuses for yourself and think about what you're filling your slots with. 

I don't know if you're trolling or trying to be funny but you give all that advice about how to counter another class but you got nothing for a class that can get shook by cleaves, interrupts, and kiting including while they're stealthed. 

You also forgot to mention that "value" of skills differ heavily from class to class, so even if I picked the "strongest" choices they still may be weak against what teef has, that's the reality. Running around, attacking and constantly resetting a fight is cowardish af, don't pretent it's not. Teef has too much luxury of that. Warrior probably would happily allow for deletion of elite skill slot if for exchange they gained "Shadowstep" on their utility bar. In 2024 there are still no real counters to stealth in this game. Stealth pretty much kitten on everyone that requires a target for skill activation.
Oh no, the cleaves, oh wait, spammed by blind into hell. Interrupts? If you don't have spammable interrupt on 5s cd then it's a joke. Kiting? Against a teef? Against a class that can port all over the place 24/7?
Take few step backs, touch some grass and start being objective toward your own class.

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45 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

You also forgot to mention that "value" of skills differ heavily from class to class, so even if I picked the "strongest" choices they still may be weak against what teef has, that's the reality. Running around, attacking and constantly resetting a fight is cowardish af, don't pretent it's not. Teef has too much luxury of that. Warrior probably would happily allow for deletion of elite skill slot if for exchange they gained "Shadowstep" on their utility bar. In 2024 there are still no real counters to stealth in this game. Stealth pretty much kitten on everyone that requires a target for skill activation.
Oh no, the cleaves, oh wait, spammed by blind into hell. Interrupts? If you don't have spammable interrupt on 5s cd then it's a joke. Kiting? Against a teef? Against a class that can port all over the place 24/7?
Take few step backs, touch some grass and start being objective toward your own class.

It's smart, not cowardice, don't pretend everyone else out there aren't using their own bag of tricks they were designed for. It's not more luxury than anyone else has unless thieves suddenly got more slots to work with. 

It's wild that I have to say it again but there are only so many slots. Kiting will make them spend and even auto attacks are counter to stealth. 

You can search my post history if you think I haven't been objective towards my own class, but you probably won't because I've seen your name in thief hate threads ignoring solid ideas and input from thieves to address almost all concerns so you can keep screeching over the same tired sound bites. 

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12 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

It's smart, not cowardice, don't pretend everyone else out there aren't using their own bag of tricks they were designed for. It's not more luxury than anyone else has unless thieves suddenly got more slots to work with. 

It's wild that I have to say it again but there are only so many slots. Kiting will make them spend and even auto attacks are counter to stealth. 

You can search my post history if you think I haven't been objective towards my own class, but you probably won't because I've seen your name in thief hate threads ignoring solid ideas and input from thieves to address almost all concerns so you can keep screeching over the same tired sound bites. 

Considering that you want some sort of "compensations" for taking away broken bs from class that shouldn't have it in the first place I highly doubt your "objective towards my own class".
Calling "smart" a clearly dumb life choices is entertaining idea. Hit-and-run tactic is pure cowardice, you start a fight then constantly reset it, that's not smart, that's being coward.

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21 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

The highest amount of teleports, stealth and evasion out of all classes in the entire game*
Fixed it for you. On top of that: CC's, boon rip, instant stomp, block.
With all of that A-net has decided to give it a PORTAL, to a class with pretty much an infinite stealth uptime combined with high mobility and evades. Ridiculous.
It is the most kittenous class as a whole since 2012. 

U bad love the tears

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16 hours ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

You also forgot to mention that "value" of skills differ heavily from class to class, so even if I picked the "strongest" choices they still may be weak against what teef has, that's the reality. Running around, attacking and constantly resetting a fight is cowardish af, don't pretent it's not. Teef has too much luxury of that. Warrior probably would happily allow for deletion of elite skill slot if for exchange they gained "Shadowstep" on their utility bar. In 2024 there are still no real counters to stealth in this game. Stealth pretty much kitten on everyone that requires a target for skill activation.
Oh no, the cleaves, oh wait, spammed by blind into hell. Interrupts? If you don't have spammable interrupt on 5s cd then it's a joke. Kiting? Against a teef? Against a class that can port all over the place 24/7?
Take few step backs, touch some grass and start being objective toward your own class.

It's only a luxury to use those tactics when it's a choice. Thief is explicitly designed to rely on those tactics and does not have access to other mechanics that make other tactics possible. When thief can facetank damage like a warrior or necro you'll have a point, but calling a deliberate class design a luxury while ignoring what they don't have is a little rich otherwise. 

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On 3/7/2024 at 4:33 AM, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

When thief can facetank damage like a warrior or necro you'll have a point, but calling a deliberate class design a luxury while ignoring what they don't have is a little rich otherwise. 

The thing is before the June 2022 patch, I had a build that could do that. With SA and a hush-hush stat combo I was negating over 70% of damage... 80 if they were npc guards/lord.

Edited by cyberzombie.7348
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