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Could banners be a little more interesting?


Phyrak.7260

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Hey there,

With the release of staff (read polearm) to the warrior - an incarnation of the old banners has emerged of sorts.

Banners give quite a stagnant play style of old compared to how mobile each class can be now; thief excluded of course.

So, what can be done to make them a little more interesting or interactive outside of slam a cloth on a stick into position?

Giving banners a slight tweak in the active and passive play style might be a way to do it.

Having banners as semi-corporeal entities pulsing boons in turning the player looking like a fantasy styled winged hussar while mounted or a weeb with a sashimono (I had to look that up) while on foot.

The active abilities associated with the banner could be somewhat like venoms - on click, gain a buff for x hits/seconds to both player and surrounding allies.

Eg. Banner of Discipline

The banner passively pulses fury and short duration cripple.

On activation, attacks now deal additional bleed damage and allies gain bleed damage on hit for x time/hits.

 

Banner of tactics could harken back to the banner charge of the early days as its activatable; providing movement, damage and relieving allies of soft cc.

 

Battle standard calls for something spectacular as an elite skill!

Perhaps a hail of ballista bolts that for a time pulsing along a target area - think inspiring reinforcements but tearing through foes dealing greater damage to enemies at low health and finishing off those who are downed.

 

Perhaps a pipe dream or future hope a dev may read this in the future for a balance pass on warrior.

What are your thoughts on banners and how/if they could be improved?

Does the above improve usability?

Thank you for reading,

-Phyrak 

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Here is what I would do, to minimize the amount of work on Anet's part but to make them more useful and fun.

  • On summon effects occur at the summon location and around the warrior.
    • Yes, this means if you summon at your location you get double the benefits.
    • Pulse effects only occur around the banner and not around the warrior.
  • Banner cast ranges increased to 900 range.
  • Banners gain a flip over skill to dismiss them that is available to be used for 10s. Banner CD is not coupled with this flipover skill.
    • The Dismiss Banner flipover executes the on summon effect again, both around the warrior and the banner.
      • Battle Standard on summon damage is activated again, but not the rez/finish portion for obvious balance reasons.
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The Banners having an effect on drop and a pulsing aoe afterwards already makes their design way stronger than the overwhelming majority of Utility skills in the game. 

I said their design btw not their effects. Banner of Tactics and Defense actually have amazing effects and are only held back by a cast time I'd reduce, but Banner of Discipline and Strength have atrociously bad effects that could stand to be rethought. 

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4 hours ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

The Banners having an effect on drop and a pulsing aoe afterwards already makes their design way stronger than the overwhelming majority of Utility skills in the game. 

I said their design btw not their effects. Banner of Tactics and Defense actually have amazing effects and are only held back by a cast time I'd reduce, but Banner of Discipline and Strength have atrociously bad effects that could stand to be rethought. 

I still think it would be way more interesting, and fit better into GW2's gameplay, if they attached the Banners to the Warrior (like Gyros on Scrapper) so they can move around with them while pulsing the effect. I get that ANet is probably like "Well thats just two similarly designed sets of skills" sure, it is, but I see no issue with that and also lets be honest...Facets on Herald really aren't all that different in function its just you don't have a visual indicator of radius on Facet skills, and also those have a larger radius too (600 on Facet skills, 240 on Gyros).

Being able to be mobile and maybe have a flipover skill for them as well could actually make the gameplay far more interesting. Particularly in WvW.

Its just so strange to me how they just seem to outright avoid ideas like this, granted we don't know what their internal discussions about such things are, and yet what we get from them is just...blah.

Warrior mains will never forget the Banner Tragedy of June, 2022.

Edited by KryTiKaL.3125
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21 minutes ago, KryTiKaL.3125 said:

I still think it would be way more interesting, and fit better into GW2's gameplay, if they attached the Banners to the Warrior (like Gyros on Scrapper) so they can move around with them while pulsing the effect. I get that ANet is probably like "Well thats just two similarly designed sets of skills" sure, it is, but I see no issue with that and also lets be honest...Facets on Herald really aren't all that different in function its just you don't have a visual indicator of radius on Facet skills, and also those have a larger radius too (600 on Facet skills, 240 on Gyros).

Being able to be mobile and maybe have a flipover skill for them as well could actually make the gameplay far more interesting. Particularly in WvW.

Its just so strange to me how they just seem to outright avoid ideas like this, granted we don't know what their internal discussions about such things are, and yet what we get from them is just...blah.

Warrior mains will never forget the Banner Tragedy of June, 2022.

Similar roles that fulfill different niches.

Tech buffer - Scrapper

Martial buffer - Warrior

Spell knight - Revenant

It's what makes sense; one might argue that banners on the back for mobility is about as common sense as spears in games - well understood historically, yet so very rare. 

26 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Strapping them on the Warrior's back and thus making them mobile would be a good start for improving banners.

Small steps and one's that are easy to make work

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On 3/7/2024 at 4:13 PM, Phyrak.7260 said:

Similar roles that fulfill different niches.

Tech buffer - Scrapper

Martial buffer - Warrior

Spell knight - Revenant

It's what makes sense; one might argue that banners on the back for mobility is about as common sense as spears in games - well understood historically, yet so very rare. 

Small steps and one's that are easy to make work

An argument could be made for overstacking skills. Having targeted radial effects + personal radial effects could fall into that realm.

I only say that because there are other effects that just have no established aspect to them besides push button, get effect. As a hypothetical, I wouldn't be against a trait that turned Banners into personal radial effects + some other benefit while a utility like Meditations gained an inherent personal radial effect to distinguish them. But as is, Banners already have a good beneficial mechanic, it's just some of them have bad effects attached to that mechanic.

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