Einar.1482 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Its time radical changes come to thief. I understand those who play it will say " it isn't overpowered", "it isn't meta" " its not meta for zerging" ":it doesn't do much dmg" etc. etc. etc. i" it has hard counters like sic em, like engineer revel, like Dh chain etc.: Thief needs to have Cool downs added to its weapon skills. - It's time thief plays more like revenant. a combination of lower weapon skill CDs alongside a resource management system (in this scenario Initiative). I am fully aware that some will say that it "ruins thief" or "makes it unplayable" or whatever they may cry but its just this simple: A CLASS WITH NO WEAPON CDS CANNOT EXIST IN A GAME WITH WEAPON SKILL CDS FOR THE OTHER PROFESSIONS AND B AEDEQUATELY AND OR APPROPRIATELY BALANCED. Arena Net has systematically been removing CD reduction traits because even they acknowledge that they are best in slot and limited build diversity. - with this same principle in mind its time that thief have weapon skill cooldowns added to their respective weapon skills. -Note: I do acknowledge that some tinkering regarding the thief dmg need to be addressed and I completely agree. 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remorseless.6352 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Lol nice yoke noob 1 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einar.1482 Posted March 15 Author Share Posted March 15 I'm no noob. But I am right 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuda.4850 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Only a noob would make a post like that. I can tell by your profile picture that you play chronomancer. And experienced player would accept the thief counter and move on. But no, here you are wasting your breath. If you want to get even play Holosmith. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 What cooldowns should thieves have Run me through some examples 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Crab.6054 Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 20 hours ago, Einar.1482 said: Its time radical changes come to thief. I understand those who play it will say " it isn't overpowered", "it isn't meta" " its not meta for zerging" ":it doesn't do much dmg" etc. etc. etc. i" it has hard counters like sic em, like engineer revel, like Dh chain etc.: Thief needs to have Cool downs added to its weapon skills. - It's time thief plays more like revenant. a combination of lower weapon skill CDs alongside a resource management system (in this scenario Initiative). I am fully aware that some will say that it "ruins thief" or "makes it unplayable" or whatever they may cry but its just this simple: A CLASS WITH NO WEAPON CDS CANNOT EXIST IN A GAME WITH WEAPON SKILL CDS FOR THE OTHER PROFESSIONS AND B AEDEQUATELY AND OR APPROPRIATELY BALANCED. Arena Net has systematically been removing CD reduction traits because even they acknowledge that they are best in slot and limited build diversity. - with this same principle in mind its time that thief have weapon skill cooldowns added to their respective weapon skills. -Note: I do acknowledge that some tinkering regarding the thief dmg need to be addressed and I completely agree. Thieves have the lowest access to weapon skills due to the global nature of initiative. This means they use less weapons skills per minute by force, and most of their skills don't kit hard and have low utility. This is why the DP DD kit was the most popular build for ages. Putting cooldowns on their skills will require reworks you really don't want. Assassin from GW1 truly brought over to this game is not something you want, and I know this because yall cant even handle heralds 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einar.1482 Posted March 16 Author Share Posted March 16 15 hours ago, Zuda.4850 said: Only a noob would make a post like that. I can tell by your profile picture that you play chronomancer. And experienced player would accept the thief counter and move on. But no, here you are wasting your breath. If you want to get even play Holosmith. So to clarify, because I play Mesmer I'm not allowed to have an opinion about balance? I'm very much aware of the counter that it present. Regardless of that, it doesn't negate my argument. But see this is one of the few arguments that ppl make to disregard. I've got 10k hours in gw2 And am quite the experienced player which is why I can identify a variety of things that need reworking; thief weapon skill cds being added would be one of those. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einar.1482 Posted March 16 Author Share Posted March 16 15 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said: What cooldowns should thieves have Run me through some examples In short, there should be weapon skill cds applied to theif weapons. I would think that thief would be more appropriately balanced if it were implemented similarly to revenants energy low cd balance. an example would be adding cd to say heart seeker to the tune of like 4-5 sec. reduce the initiative cost of the skill this means it can be used to create stealth access but it wouldn't be as spammable. this would provide counter play opportunities that exist outside of reveal (which not every class has access to). This would also promote weapon rotations and combos beyond what has effectively become (in DP Daredevil for the last 9years) 5 (black powder)- heart seeker/bound/ (occasional blast) - steal into BS or just BS. I think that herald balance has a good concept of low weapon skill cds that allow it to be pretty good but also, there is some counterplay in terms of energy management Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeteu.6039 Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 (edited) ive played thief or ages and never understood why people died till I played vs thief and realized how fast skills are and spamable making it really hard to counter play. stealth is easily accessible with no counter play when they dodge to stealth ect. ps no thief main will tell you they are over tuned Edited March 16 by Alternatex.5734 3 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einar.1482 Posted March 16 Author Share Posted March 16 15 hours ago, Last Crab.6054 said: Thieves have the lowest access to weapon skills due to the global nature of initiative. This means they use less weapons skills per minute by force, and most of their skills don't kit hard and have low utility. This is why the DP DD kit was the most popular build for ages. Putting cooldowns on their skills will require reworks you really don't want. Assassin from GW1 truly brought over to this game is not something you want, and I know this because yall cant even handle heralds I appreciate your feedback. Respectfully though I think you're wrong. 1. Thief has greater access to weapon skills than any other class in gw2. - With no weapon skill cds the only thing limiting accessibility is resource cost which is one of the few concepts that can be replenished by way of not time. Ofc there is the time based recharge that occurs but simultaneously there are a variety of ways in which the player can regenerate it: entering and exiting stealth, steal, roll for imitative and ofc just setting a higher base amount (which technically doesn't apply to regen but applies to general pool of resource from which to pull from). I do really like how revenant plays. It has a good balance of low accessible skill cds and balances a resource management well. 2. Thief is the only class in t he game that sits in 1 weapon set when the game doesnt force them to. - note engineer, ele are examples of classes that have access to 1 weapon set while in combat and use that as such but thief h as access to 2 weapon sets in combat but gets nearly 100% of its dmg, sustain, and control from one. the secondary set is simply to disengage or maybe add a bit of cleave (primarily SB). 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marckan.9526 Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 On 3/15/2024 at 5:15 AM, Einar.1482 said: Arena Net has systematically been removing CD reduction traits because even they acknowledge that they are best in slot and limited build diversity. They didn't remove those trais, they implemented them by default for all places where they occurred except for a very few examples as engineers Elixir S. And yes it was because they were traits that were always taken, so please ANET it's time the entire trait line Trickery on Thieves is made default, as this has been mandatory basically since launch of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradoxoglanis.1904 Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 Using any skill should break stealth. Revealed duration should be double what it is now. Deadeye should get deleted from the game. 1 5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepster.4275 Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 You screwed up by complaining with a chrono profile pic xD People hate mesmers even if it's currently the worst class to play anywhere above gold3, anyway As for your problem, thief hard counters mesmer, or atleast the DPS variant of chronomancer on other builds you may have an easier time dealing with but if I can give you an advice, just play something else and not mesmer, it will save you a lot of mental sanity, like go an play willbender you can braindead spam buttons and you still win any 1v1 or maybe try Holo, believe me , after 10+ years it's meaningless to complain about how thief works And currently the problem with thief is mainly deadeye and it's playstyle, the other builds atleast require some skill and knowledge about your matchup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 6 hours ago, Einar.1482 said: This would also promote weapon rotations and combos beyond what has effectively become (in DP Daredevil for the last 9years) 5 (black powder)- heart seeker/bound/ (occasional blast) - steal into BS or just BS. How would it do this? Let's assume Heartseeker now has a 4/5 second cooldown, and no other cooldowns have changed. what's your rotation now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradoxoglanis.1904 Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said: How would it do this? Let's assume Heartseeker now has a 4/5 second cooldown, and no other cooldowns have changed. what's your rotation now? 2534f167379f280 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said: 2534f167379f280 Elaborate~ Weapon sets and utility names. Edited March 17 by Azure The Heartless.3261 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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