Another S/D Condi Thief thread

[Daharahj.1325]

Because I don't think ANet quite understands just how absurd this build is. Here's a reminder of some of the things it can do:

Apply 1, 1, 5, 5, 10, 1, 5, 5 stacks of cripple, immobilize, bleed, confusion, poison, weakness, torment and vulnerability respectively in a fraction of a second and then disengage to safety.

Hide behind/under a wall, constantly TP in and out of a fight while applying 4 different conditions to 3 targets with each dodge, leaving a bleeding caltrop behind, then clearing a condition on return.

Share your condi nukes and cc with your entire team, providing damage to bunker builds that are not supposed to be doing damage.

Maintain condi pressure as long as your initiative and endurance allows it, both of which have multiple sources of regen.

While dodging you are not only avoiding and doing damage, you're also passively clearing conditions.

Has all the redeeming qualities of a thief; mobility and decap threat.

I can tolerate the constant condi spam, but the mobility needs to take a hit, either change Infiltrator Strike so it cannot go through walls, increase its cost or remove the immobilize portion, d/d should be the go-to weapon for a condi build, I get the impression that the interaction between Panic Trike and Infiltrator Strike is something Anet simply overlooked.

[babazhook.6805]

The s/d build could do all of the things outlined BEFORE the change to Panic strike. Panic strike changes add another 6 stacks poison and that is it and that ony if 15 ini burnt. Everything else can be done with that build even if panic strike not traited.

If they removed the poison on Immob tomorrow, the same build could be made by traiting up spider venom in a utility. Granted spider venom AND the existing panic strike can now be used in conjunction but that has nothing to do with cripples on dodge, torment on dodge , bleeds on dodge. Confusion and Poison from Steal. Remove the poison on immob and the condition s/d thief need only trait spider venom with skale. Same damage done.

Power S/d can do all of that same juking as well with the ability to port back behind walls . Remove the Immob on #2 and all you do is break s/d power set which only recently become competitive with d/p.

[Shirlias.8104]

@babazhook.6805 said:Power S/d can do all of that same juking as well with the ability to port back behind walls . Remove the Immob on #2 and all you do is break s/d power set which only recently become competitive with d/p.

This.Btw i really hope they are going to nerf the condi build somehow.It's a shame to see a class like that play that build...

[Dealta Vortex.7610]

@Daharahj.1325 said:Because I don't think ANet quite understands just how absurd this build is. Here's a reminder of some of the things it can do:

Apply 1, 1, 5, 5, 10, 1, 5, 5 stacks of cripple, immobilize, bleed, confusion, poison, weakness, torment and vulnerability respectively in a fraction of a second and then disengage to safety.

Hide behind/under a wall, constantly TP in and out of a fight while applying 4 different conditions to 3 targets with each dodge, leaving a bleeding caltrop behind, then clearing a condition on return.

Share your condi nukes and cc with your entire team, providing damage to bunker builds that are not supposed to be doing damage.

Maintain condi pressure as long as your initiative and endurance allows it, both of which have multiple sources of regen.

While dodging you are not only avoiding and doing damage, you're also passively clearing conditions.

Has all the redeeming qualities of a thief; mobility and decap threat.

I can tolerate the constant condi spam, but the mobility needs to take a hit, either change Infiltrator Strike so it cannot go through walls, increase its cost or remove the immobilize portion, d/d should be the go-to weapon for a condi build, I get the impression that the interaction between Panic Trike and Infiltrator Strike is something Anet simply overlooked.

A) The only mobility condi thief has is sb5. Unless you are below plat, your team literally can't be decaped by a condi thief if yall got the snowball.B.) If they hit you with infiltrator strike - 1.) cc them to bait out shadowstep/steal. 2.) if they continue fighting, hit them with another cc after they send shadow step.C.) Learn to weapon stow so you aren't giving them free condi cleanse in their evade frames. Not hard.

[Chorazin.4107]

@Dealta Vortex.7610 said:

B.) If they hit you with infiltrator strike - 1.) cc them to bait out shadowstep/steal. 2.) if they continue fighting, hit them with another cc after they send shadow step.

How many CC's do you think some classes have? Not only that, you are not hitting them during these dodge rolls the op is talking about. I mean you might get lucky and have him roll into a guards ring of warding which would be amusing. But unlikely.

[Evil.1580]

The build is fine, it doesn't need any nerf. In fact, it may use some boost because at plat+ it is quite weak.

[Link.1049]

I like this build because it reintroduced condition damage to thieves... for awhile we were a bit stuck in one...maybe two builds. Sword was left by the wayside. It's good to see it back in play, and to be honest I don't see a lot of thieves playing it. I see far more dagger/pistol power and dagger/dagger condi builds than sword builds. It's gone up as it made it to meta...but most people that pick it up from there have a hard time using it.

[Dealta Vortex.7610]

@Chorazin.4107 said:

@Dealta Vortex.7610 said:

B.) If they hit you with infiltrator strike - 1.) cc them to bait out shadowstep/steal. 2.) if they continue fighting, hit them with another cc after they send shadow step.

How many CC's do you think some classes have? Not only that, you are not hitting them during these dodge rolls the op is talking about. I mean you might get lucky and have him roll into a guards ring of warding which would be amusing. But unlikely.

Every single class has at least 1 cc in this meta. the dodges doesn't even account for most of their dmg, it literally does like 3k over 8 seconds. You can literally time your burst to hit them when they run out of evade frames, they will dodge again and you just rinse and repeat. They are animation trapped when they dodge roll so they won't be able to avoid the burst unless they have daze steal/shadowstep

[babazhook.6805]

On S/d the strongest defensive options are the port away and dodge. There no blind. There an evade on #3 but if a thief is "spamming 2" he will not have INI for 3. If they are using their defensive options just to add cover conditions and 2 stacks of poison then they have nothing left when that INI burned off by "spamming 2" or endurance can to "apply cover condtions" . It is NOT required a person just stand there and eat every port in and out, every impaling lotus dodge, every uncatchable app and every steal. You are not a training Golem.

[lLobo.7960]

A good way to change this without ruining the build or the PvE condi thief is just to require the immob to crit for it to apply poison.Then the thief would have to be much more glassy (sinister or viper instead of carion) to deal the same pressure they do right now, balancing the build more.The main problem is all the passive condi application. This lets the thief to spec more tanky and deal a lot of dmg since it doesnt use crits.

Same for mesmers (dealing confusion on every blind and shatters), and necros (bleeds on chill)...Passive conditions application needs to be moved to crit effects so if the player wants that condi burst he needs be gear glassy.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/2296/suggestion-move-more-cond-application-from-passive-to-crit-hits

[Sifu.9745]

Hmm, i don't remember i ever met Sw/D condi Thief ... D/D, P/D and SB are condi weapons. How can a sword be a condition weapon? The only way i can apply a dmg condi with Sword is trough Panic Strike trait, caused by Infiltrator's strike Immobilize. Oh and traited Steal also applies Poison and when you Dodge. But what is op talking about Bleeds, Confusion and Torment? You can only get all of these conditions if you take Venoms. But Venoms have a 30/40 sec cd so you can't just spam conditions endlessly on Sw/d like you can do it on d/d. Or have i been missing something?

[Eiffel.8937]

Sword is just for the mobility (port in / out with 2) after condi dodge so you wont get hit as you already used your dodges to apply condis

[Loop.8106]

@Sifu.9745 said:Hmm, i don't remember i ever met Sw/D condi Thief ... D/D, P/D and SB are condi weapons. How can a sword be a condition weapon? The only way i can apply a dmg condi with Sword is trough Panic Strike trait, caused by Infiltrator's strike Immobilize. Oh and traited Steal also applies Poison and when you Dodge. But what is op talking about Bleeds, Confusion and Torment? You can only get all of these conditions if you take Venoms. But Venoms have a 30/40 sec cd so you can't just spam conditions endlessly on Sw/d like you can do it on d/d. Or have i been missing something?

Panic Strike, Spider Venom, Confusion on Steal trait, Impaling Lotus dodge and sigils.