Shagie.7612 Posted April 16 Author Share Posted April 16 8 minutes ago, Angesombre.4630 said: Since Kalla's change, renegat has taken a general turn for the worse and no problem has been solved. Idk, I don't think it's necessarily worse, overall. I think in most situations it's in about the same position it was before, more or less no change, maybe slightly better. But then there's also niche encounters and match ups where it's just significantly worse (like against traps, against something that couldn't stop the daze spam to protect yourself, that sorta stuff). But yes, I don't think it solved its problems, and the solution within their current design would be making them low CD/cost, so that you can actually deny area, protect yourself, and they aren't so punishing if the enemy runs out or dodges. And they explicitly don't think Renegade deserves to have that even though plenty of other specs do, which is why they left it abandoned for as long as they did. I dunno if the patch tomorrow has any balance changes, but I think it's gonna be difficult to make it a playable elite because of its design, if they actually follow through on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobber.6348 Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 6 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said: but the utility you get via Alliance is waaaaay beyond anything Renegade is capable of. It's just harder to use. Anyways, as far as pvp goes This is because Alliance is the only Legend left that isn't kitten. It's just the sorry state of Revenant right now. Man imagine if next expansion just decouples Espec utilities. Alliance being free to use across all specs would make everyone better because they wouldn't be forced to use Legends that have both their kneecaps popped. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdecki.7856 Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 On 4/9/2024 at 6:02 AM, Shagie.7612 said: Anyone who had slow enough reactions to get punished by the first hit deserves the immob, but with this you have time between the potential cast timer, start up, and the first and second hit to get your dodge off and avoid it. That's pretty lame. It should put up a stack on each of the 3 hits, or it should be a significantly longer duration. Alternatively, make it additionally immobilize on cast because GOOD LORD YOU CAN'T PROTECT YOURSELF STILL PLEASE I JUST WANNA HAVE A GHOST ARMY AND HAVE FUN IN PVP WITHOUT FEELING MISERABLE Literally no other major rework landed this poorly. I don't understand. Additionally, why does each ghost have a different time before their attacks go off? It's around a 1s delay on Icerazor from the time it comes out, but it's closer to 1.5s later on Darkrazor and Razorclaw. I haven't actually recorded it and counted the actual time, just rough stopwatch checking but it's long enough that summoning Darkrazor/Razorclaw first and using Band Together on Icerazor makes Icerazor's attacks land first. e: some other things The chill on the enhanced cast is 3x stacks. Ranger Spirits are all consistent. I like it for WvW because almost everyone always has aegis on them, so it burns the aegis before the immob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdecki.7856 Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 On 4/9/2024 at 8:17 PM, arazoth.7290 said: But kalla summons can't be placed everywhere 😓 More like they can barely be placed ANYWHERE. "Invalid path to target" x1000 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdecki.7856 Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 (edited) On 4/9/2024 at 6:02 AM, Shagie.7612 said: Anyone who had slow enough reactions to get punished by the first hit deserves the immob, but with this you have time between the potential cast timer, start up, and the first and second hit to get your dodge off and avoid it. That's pretty lame. It should put up a stack on each of the 3 hits, or it should be a significantly longer duration. Alternatively, make it additionally immobilize on cast because GOOD LORD YOU CAN'T PROTECT YOURSELF STILL PLEASE I JUST WANNA HAVE A GHOST ARMY AND HAVE FUN IN PVP WITHOUT FEELING MISERABLE Literally no other major rework landed this poorly. I don't understand. Additionally, why does each ghost have a different time before their attacks go off? It's around a 1s delay on Icerazor from the time it comes out, but it's closer to 1.5s later on Darkrazor and Razorclaw. I haven't actually recorded it and counted the actual time, just rough stopwatch checking but it's long enough that summoning Darkrazor/Razorclaw first and using Band Together on Icerazor makes Icerazor's attacks land first. e: some other things The chill on the enhanced cast is 3x stacks. Ranger Spirits are all consistent. Also I believe the reason for the different timings is so you can combo them. You icerazor them first, since the first hit isn't immob it'll proc aegis so it can actually immob, then razorclaw will proc on them right after. I have plenty of criticisms about the rework but your points aren't any of them. Are you complaining that the chill is 3x stacks or that it isn't reflected in the skill description? I wasn't aware it was 3 stacks, but if true that is very convenient for the torment on chill trait. Edited April 16 by Bdecki.7856 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shagie.7612 Posted April 16 Author Share Posted April 16 2 hours ago, Bdecki.7856 said: Also I believe the reason for the different timings is so you can combo them. You icerazor them first, since the first hit isn't immob it'll proc aegis so it can actually immob, then razorclaw will proc on them right after. Okay, but why not 3 stacks of immobilize? So it's actually got some duration for anyone who gets hit, instead of so little time that anyone with superspeed can walk out before a follow-up Razorclaw or Darkrazor pops. Or that they have a significant amount of extra time to dodge the most valuable part of the skill. The chill being 3 stacks is great, I'm not complaining about it at all. I'm complaining that Icerazor is weak and does a poor job of allowing you to either peel off yourself or set up any combo damage. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdecki.7856 Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 (edited) 4 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said: Okay, but why not 3 stacks of immobilize? So it's actually got some duration for anyone who gets hit, instead of so little time that anyone with superspeed can walk out before a follow-up Razorclaw or Darkrazor pops. Or that they have a significant amount of extra time to dodge the most valuable part of the skill. The chill being 3 stacks is great, I'm not complaining about it at all. I'm complaining that Icerazor is weak and does a poor job of allowing you to either peel off yourself or set up any combo damage. I've been running a lot of expertise so I haven't had issues but (checking base duration) 2 seconds of immob is PLENTY to land a follow up. They have 1/2 second cast times, and immediate when band together is up. Darkrazor should have plenty of time to land as well as long as icerazor hits. I've been peeling with it in WvW from whole zergs quite well tbh. Edited April 17 by Bdecki.7856 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shagie.7612 Posted April 17 Author Share Posted April 17 Yes, they're 0.5s cast times but they have anywhere from a 1.0 to 1.5s delay on top of that before they go off. It's a 1.5s immob, expertise doesn't exist in pvp either. If you wait to confirm the immob hits, it's short enough that Razorclaw won't go off, if you throw them both at the same time you're created an even more obvious telegraphed "dodge this lol" moment. It is not effective against anyone who isn't a blind moron. Any zerg that doesn't have infinite cleanses and resistance is a joke and hardly worth caring about too tbh lol. If you're actively escaping them with that then you'd also be actively escaping them by w keying in the opposite direction. Anyways the entire point of the rework was to make it playable in STRUCTURED PVP, WvW is an even bigger balance joke, but they're the only people left playing rev because spvpers all gave up on anything but Vindi about 2 years ago so nobody else is around to comment. Go try it in spvp, tell me your rating, tell me how effective it is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdecki.7856 Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 (edited) 4 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said: Yes, they're 0.5s cast times but they have anywhere from a 1.0 to 1.5s delay on top of that before they go off. It's a 1.5s immob, expertise doesn't exist in pvp either. If you wait to confirm the immob hits, it's short enough that Razorclaw won't go off, if you throw them both at the same time you're created an even more obvious telegraphed "dodge this lol" moment. It is not effective against anyone who isn't a blind moron. Any zerg that doesn't have infinite cleanses and resistance is a joke and hardly worth caring about too tbh lol. If you're actively escaping them with that then you'd also be actively escaping them by w keying in the opposite direction. Anyways the entire point of the rework was to make it playable in STRUCTURED PVP, WvW is an even bigger balance joke, but they're the only people left playing rev because spvpers all gave up on anything but Vindi about 2 years ago so nobody else is around to comment. Go try it in spvp, tell me your rating, tell me how effective it is. Herald is good in pvp wdym? I haven't played renegade that much in any PvP mode but it does fine in WvW. I'm a herald main and have been trying it out, it's plenty viable. Not being able to place them because of pathing issues is my biggest concern. Plenty of zergs have lots of holes in resistance and can separate a small group from a zerg and cause just a general nuisance. It works very well clouding with Mallyx boon rip spam on top of it. I've been a big part of whittling down zergs because it can just constantly pump annoying condis and boon rip. It doesn't seem like it would be good in spvp still I don't doubt that, and don't get me wrong I'm not praising the changes. sPvP has been dead for ages anyways I couldn't care less lol. It can absolutely blow small groups of people up in WvW though. Have had plenty of scenarios already just double dodging past a small zerg to defend a tower and blowing them up. So if they fix those pathing issues I could see myself playing it regularly in WvW. Sure it is telegraphed but I'm managing to land plenty of Icerazors into razorclaws on groups of people and they actually hit quite hard and the condi burst is pretty nutty. Majority of players are bots that W key so you just lead the icerazors and spam razorclaws and if one lands they both do. I have some doubts from you as a driver of it to really see any potential from the sounds of it lol. Edited April 17 by Bdecki.7856 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shagie.7612 Posted April 17 Author Share Posted April 17 (edited) 5 hours ago, Bdecki.7856 said: Herald is good in pvp wdym? What do YOU mean lol Herald sees very little play in high(er) level PvP and when it does, Vindi would be a superior pick anyways and it's people playing it because they like it or comfort. It also sees virtually no MAT presence and hasn't for quite some time. 5 hours ago, Bdecki.7856 said: I haven't played renegade that much in any PvP mode Yeah, I got that. Alongside all the other WvW players saying the exact same thing lol 600 range summons are asking to get yourself murdered anyways, on a legend and whole build that has almost zero stab access. Between that, proj hate, resists, cleanses, blocks, dodges, and whatever else, I don't think it's as effective as you think it is against any decent players. 5 hours ago, Bdecki.7856 said: I have some doubts from you as a driver of it to really see any potential from the sounds of it lol. Go ahead. Go queue up. Play in plat with it then. Tell me it's effective or feels good. I'm more than willing to accept it if you do. I doubt there's anyone on NA or EU actively playing Kalla at a higher rating than I am. And I'm not even that high, lol. Edited April 17 by Shagie.7612 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdecki.7856 Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 13 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said: What do YOU mean lol Herald sees very little play in high(er) level PvP and when it does, Vindi would be a superior pick anyways and it's people playing it because they like it or comfort. It also sees virtually no MAT presence and hasn't for quite some time. Yeah, I got that. Alongside all the other WvW players saying the exact same thing lol 600 range summons are asking to get yourself murdered anyways, on a legend and whole build that has almost zero stab access. Between that, proj hate, resists, cleanses, blocks, dodges, and whatever else, I don't think it's as effective as you think it is against any decent players. Go ahead. Go queue up. Play in plat with it then. Tell me it's effective or feels good. I'm more than willing to accept it if you do. I doubt there's anyone on NA or EU actively playing Kalla at a higher rating than I am. And I'm not even that high, lol. Yeah soon as you said that about herald I checked out. You just haven't played enough, don't abuse swap mechanics, or don't play correctly or something. 900 range would be nice I'd take it, but with a 360 radius that turns it technically into a 1080 range and might be a little too good? Idk, sure they can try it. Also LOL no stab access?! Run mallyx with the Glaring Resolve trait and revs should never be getting CC'd or caught, Infinite stun break w/ stab and resistance. Plat means nothing, getting to plat is basically where people start to know what they're doing a little bit. I could get plat with nearly anything lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shagie.7612 Posted April 17 Author Share Posted April 17 3 hours ago, Bdecki.7856 said: Yeah soon as you said that about herald I checked out. It's not wrong though, lol 3 hours ago, Bdecki.7856 said: Plat means nothing, getting to plat is basically where people start to know what they're doing a little bit. I could get plat with nearly anything lol. Not entirely incorrect here. So do it. And tell me you had a good time doing it as Kalla. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arazoth.7290 Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 On 4/17/2024 at 7:58 AM, Shagie.7612 said: Go ahead. Go queue up. Play in plat with it then. Tell me it's effective or feels good. I'm more than willing to accept it if you do. I doubt there's anyone on NA or EU actively playing Kalla at a higher rating than I am. And I'm not even that high, lol. Challenge accepted !!! But I will try it after I got achievements for legendary backpack pvp😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shagie.7612 Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 1 hour ago, arazoth.7290 said: Challenge accepted !!! But I will try it after I got achievements for legendary backpack pvp😁 It's not like, impossible or anything. You can get there almost solely based on map rotation and macro level play. But whether it's as condi or power you're not gonna have a very fun time doing it, and it'll be significantly harder, relative to virtually any other builds, both rev and non-rev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arazoth.7290 Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 1 hour ago, Shagie.7612 said: It's not like, impossible or anything. You can get there almost solely based on map rotation and macro level play. But whether it's as condi or power you're not gonna have a very fun time doing it, and it'll be significantly harder, relative to virtually any other builds, both rev and non-rev. Yea I know ^^. Eitherway I made a nice one yesterday which seems to do well, it's a power build. Going to test it more, made for roaming/dps and It's weirdly winning 1v1's "if" played well and paying attention enough. Not recommending 1v1's unless you're confident you can win it (not meant specific on you, but everyone reading). I might post it after few months if renegade/revenant might get some more updates. And when I have mastered this one in specific ^^. I know you like renegade so that's why, you might be using it yourself already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shagie.7612 Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 8 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said: I know you like renegade so that's why, you might be using it yourself already I've only been playing Mallyx/Kalla so far this season, mostly because I like the yoink leap on Mallyx. My favorite legend of them all just cause it's fun to hop hop hop. It's... mostly not so good, sometimes it can feel pretty cool, like you throw a SB4, Citadel Bombardment on a point, then pull everyone and drop Icerazor/Razorclaw (and then get yourself the heck outta there). It doesn't work that often but if it does, you've done a ton of damage and an aoe pull, if your team does any damage you should more or less win that fight. I just don't see how, in the current form, it's ever really supposed to compete with meta builds. Renegade traits just aren't that great and Kalla doesn't have very good abilities. I'm still having fun, it's just really frustrating sometimes trying to fight actual good stuff that beats you even when they've clearly facetanked everything of yours and you've dodged a ton of theirs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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