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Upcoming Wintersday Balance Update


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I really hope you guys will fix the obstructed stuff with necro shades. It's really annoying in wvw and spvp, and i've actually had some intermittent trouble with it in raids. Having fights like the new one and any long term fight have condi do more damage over time would be awesome and i'm excited to see the changes.

While this is a small balance patch and you probably wont change weapons compleetly, i would like to see some changes to necro staff to maybe use it as more viable condi weapon, or make the projectile 100% finish and track people, or at least move faster.

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@Swagger.1459 said:Just remember, when condi damage is nerfed, to make sure necro gets a bunch of mobility skills, fast cast times, better melee capabilities... and 20k + burst potential with weapons.

oh you mean make necro more like every other class right now? except maybe revenenant? Cuz seriously i started making a chrono and omg it's so much easier to play than my necro. Short cooldown skills, useful stun breaks, tons of cc and movement abilitys up the butt. solo'ing mobs was slow but wicked easy.

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@Lexan.5930 said:I really hope you guys will fix the obstructed stuff with necro shades. It's really annoying in wvw and spvp, and i've actually had some intermittent trouble with it in raids.

i don't raid, but as a wvw player, this infuriates me, i mean, our wells can do it, and so can other class's AoE skills.... either make no AoE skills hit behind walls, or give this one back this capability

While this is a small balance patch and you probably wont change weapons compleetly, i would like to see some changes to necro staff to maybe use it as more viable condi weapon, or make the projectile 100% finish and track people, or at least move faster.

i sort of agree with a faster movement or little bit of tracking, it stinks when people can just sidestep it

but holy butts can it do condi, if you run terror the 2,3, and 5 do a ton of condi damage(it's not really going to ever happen with cleanse, but, we're talking about how quickly they can land these on non-projectile-1200-range-skills)and 1 and 4 still hit like a bus for power, at least in pvp, it's a good weapon all around, unless you meant in pve, but... that's just a mess on it's own, so.... -shrug-

@Swagger.1459 said:Just remember, when condi damage is nerfed, to make sure necro gets a bunch of mobility skills, fast cast times, better melee capabilities... and 20k + burst potential with weapons.

.... n.. nothey're supposed to be slow and threatening, if anything just beef up some under performing skills, but speed boosts and mobility aren't necessary for what they can already do....

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@Zaxares.5419 said:

@Jinks.2057 said:Also people need to realize they can tweak raid bosses and PvE content. What this means if they lower the overall DPS in the game by 10k they can easily lower the overall raid boss HPS by certain amount to compensate.

This.
I think, in fact, the best approach to balance would be to simply set a moderate DPS limit (say, 10-15k) and then draw a line in the sand and go "This is the highest DPS that will ever be allowed in GW2." Any builds that can surpass it get nerfed. Build types that can't meet it get buffed. And then you can design all encounters around it and adjust HP totals for raids and world bosses to match.

This applies to PvP too since I honestly feel that one of the big downsides to the PvP scenes is that individual fights tend to be over WAY too fast due to the DPS creep ever since HoT came out. If you're good, you can kill your opponent in a matter of seconds, (and even good fights tend to be over in 20-30 seconds), which just doesn't translate into a good viewing experience for streaming. For the average viewer, it's like the action is over before you really understand what's going on. (Imagine if you went to see a boxing match and every single fight ends with a one-hit KO in the first round.) It's not like the GW1 PvP scene, which tended to be more drawn out and had more opportunities for counter-play and teammates who could res you.

Make that 33,000 DPS as the min, with a max of 33, 001and we are talking.

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@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:To re-iterate and hopefully clarify something - this update is NOT an end-all resolution to power and condition builds, it is a step toward the goal of accentuating differences will lead to healthier options in several game modes. This is also a smaller scope update.

We'll be listening to your feedback on these types of changes, but we ask that you keep discussion to the items we're focusing on here.

If you have a PTR like a normal game you could make more significant changes since you would have tons of data, you don't even have to have new content to test, just make Peers automatically group in all modes of PVE on the PTR so that you actually have Power Reaper raid data to bring it where it needs to be in one patch as opposed to whole expansion cycles plus in micro nudges.

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@zealex.9410 said:Ppl lvl your expectations. The extra patch as said by the devs is gonna be a small one. Dont expect all your problems to be solved with it.

My financial support varies from balance patch to balance patch, for example Power Reaper was significantly buffed and I rewarded them thus so, if it's a minor change then I'll be making much smaller purchases. They can clearly follow my spending trends to verify that.

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What if Condition damage is modified by the modifiers that apply to power damage for instance: precision/ferocity/toughness/armor/might/weakness (i.e conditions damage can crit and can be mitigated by armor/blocks), in addition to condition duration, but itnt so drastically affected by condi duration which currently can go to 100% duration max. Instead duration could be normalised to say 30% as the high end number, so the 'designed' duration of a condis is baked into the skill itself making it more of a supplementary bonus. This would make balancing condition damage almost as simple as balancing power based abilities with the exception that condition is affected by 1 additional mod.

Some games handle dots by treating them as an additional damage layer which does not stack with itself but only refreshes its duration. Imo this approach wouldve simplified things immensely as one could be sure that their DoT always contributed to dps in opened world/raids/fractals/WvW without fear of reaching some arbitrary game imposed limit, also this would prob reduce server lag too. Basically the idea then is dots are afire and forget power and you use your instant damaging powers most of the time. Im aware that GWs implementation of the DoT is a unique take on it but I was never a fan of stacking dots especially when it had the low 25 stack limit, having played in the beta then taking a 5 year break after returning for PoF expansion.

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@Lexan.5930 said:I really hope you guys will fix the obstructed stuff with necro shades. It's really annoying in wvw and spvp, and i've actually had some intermittent trouble with it in raids. Having fights like the new one and any long term fight have condi do more damage over time would be awesome and i'm excited to see the changes.

While this is a small balance patch and you probably wont change weapons compleetly, i would like to see some changes to necro staff to maybe use it as more viable condi weapon, or make the projectile 100% finish and track people, or at least move faster.

Yeah, makes no sense that meteor shower and barrage can hit the tops of walls, but not shades. This is what happens when people whine.

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im just laughing at the condi elitists scared of losing theyr pacifier.Its about time condi starts to get reduced. In fact they should at max deal EQUAL damage compared to power because:

1) Easier rotation2) Less things to worry about3) No RNG4) Less melee-oriented

Whats the point on playing a safer, easier class while dealing more damage than the one that needs more mechanics? I dont need my Power DH's damage to rise, but rather to bring down all condis to a point that the choices for raids will be based in "We need things killed quickly" or "This boss isn't as mobile as the other, we can bring condi for DoT's"

Also, all classes should have viable Power Damage, especialy Spellbreaker which is such a fun class to play but the medíocre damage makes us have to play boring condi warrior over and over

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@"KeoLegend.5132" said:im just laughing at the condi elitists scared of losing theyr pacifier.Its about time condi starts to get reduced. In fact they should at max deal EQUAL damage compared to power because:

1) Easier rotation2) Less things to worry about3) No RNG4) Less melee-oriented

Whats the point on playing a safer, easier class while dealing more damage than the one that needs more mechanics? I dont need my Power DH's damage to rise, but rather to bring down all condis to a point that the choices for raids will be based in "We need things killed quickly" or "This boss isn't as mobile as the other, we can bring condi for DoT's"

Also, all classes should have viable Power Damage, especialy Spellbreaker which is such a fun class to play but the medíocre damage makes us have to play boring condi warrior over and over

Do we even play the same game? Raids are already like this. Basically what you are asking is for raid comps to go back to stacking Ele's and DH's every fight because every other power build has either been gutted or made extremely situational like DD and large hit boxes.

The whole condi burst argument came from pvp and wvw. This was never a complaint in raids.

Power is already pretty dominate over condi builds in raids with the exception of the golem bosses like MO and Cairn. The major problem is is a lot of power builds are extremely bad right now and that has nothing to do with condi's current damage.

I hate to break it to you but this change does absolutely nothing to bring bad power builds like Herald into the raid meta.

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@"KeoLegend.5132" said:im just laughing at the condi elitists scared of losing theyr pacifier.Its about time condi starts to get reduced. In fact they should at max deal EQUAL damage compared to power because:

1) Easier rotation2) Less things to worry about3) No RNG4) Less melee-oriented

Whats the point on playing a safer, easier class while dealing more damage than the one that needs more mechanics? I dont need my Power DH's damage to rise, but rather to bring down all condis to a point that the choices for raids will be based in "We need things killed quickly" or "This boss isn't as mobile as the other, we can bring condi for DoT's"

Also, all classes should have viable Power Damage, especialy Spellbreaker which is such a fun class to play but the medíocre damage makes us have to play boring condi warrior over and over

On top of that they are mostly full bunker condi as well because they only need 1 offensive stat as well.

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@Vulf.3098 said:

@"KeoLegend.5132" said:im just laughing at the condi elitists scared of losing theyr pacifier.Its about time condi starts to get reduced. In fact they should at max deal EQUAL damage compared to power because:

1) Easier rotation2) Less things to worry about3) No RNG4) Less melee-oriented

Whats the point on playing a safer, easier class while dealing more damage than the one that needs more mechanics? I dont need my Power DH's damage to rise, but rather to bring down all condis to a point that the choices for raids will be based in "We need things killed quickly" or "This boss isn't as mobile as the other, we can bring condi for DoT's"

Also,
all classes should have viable Power Damage
, especialy Spellbreaker which is such a fun class to play but the medíocre damage makes us have to play boring condi warrior over and over

Do we even play the same game? Raids are already like this. Basically what you are asking is for raid comps to go back to stacking Ele's and DH's every fight because every other power build has either been gutted or made extremely situational like DD and large hit boxes.

The whole condi burst argument came from pvp and wvw. This was never a complaint in raids.

Power is already pretty dominate over condi builds in raids with the exception of the golem bosses like MO and Cairn. The major problem is is a lot of power builds are extremely bad right now and that has nothing to do with condi's current damage.

I hate to break it to you but this change does absolutely nothing to bring bad power builds like Herald into the raid meta.

Then lets hope they put all classes with a decente power build. If you read my entire post instead of just the first sentences you would see that we are agreeing on the subject

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@KeoLegend.5132 said:Then lets hope they put all classes with a decente power build. If you read my entire post instead of just the first sentences you would see that we are agreeing on the subject

The thing is Power is already better in Raids than condi at the moment the problem is there really is only 2 viable power builds for that content in the entire game and that is Ele and DH with a special mention of Holo.

It makes no sense to blanket nerf condi when the problem is coming from 1-2 specs in PvP but since the devs refuse to split the balance between the two contents everyone gets to suffer.

These proposed changes are going to nerf both Power and Condi Rev which is completely unnecessary.

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@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:Eh, not sure I would agree with this. Ele, more specifically weaver, effectively has 4 dodges with twist of fate, add mist form and lightning flash, and you can get caught by a zerg and still make it out alive. Rev, not so much.

So having to use THREE utilities for avoiding damage doesnt seem a little excessive? I mean the rev could use abilities and avoidance skills of their own as well. Add in Legend swap, add in the condi removal, healing, alacrity that Ventari has, add in the boons, and healing skill Herald has and you have a very sustainable character where as a Zerk ele gets looked at and they die lol

A lot of classes have to use 3 defensive utilities in WVW tho. And you don't need DPS utilities with weaver, 10k meteor shower crits with 3 defensive utilities, and an autoattack that can damn near 2 shot any glass builds, your DPS is just fine.

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@Vulf.3098 said:

@KeoLegend.5132 said:Then lets hope they put all classes with a decente power build. If you read my entire post instead of just the first sentences you would see that we are agreeing on the subject

The thing is Power is already better in Raids than condi at the moment the problem is there really is only 2 viable power builds for that content in the entire game and that is Ele and DH with a special mention of Holo.

It makes no sense to blanket nerf condi when the problem is coming from 1-2 specs in PvP but since the devs refuse to split the balance between the two contents everyone gets to suffer.

These proposed changes are going to nerf both Power and Condi Rev which is completely unnecessary.

Forgive my ignorance but where in the world is power better than condi on raids

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@"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:Wintersday is coming fellow Tyrians and, during the recent AMA, I made reference to a small balance update and I wished to follow-up to let you know that we're aiming to release that update next Tuesday, 12/12.


We've heard your frustrations with the burstiness of conditions invalidating power builds across game modes (though for differing reasons in each). Conditions have always been intended as a way to achieve strong sustained damage once it has ramped up.

This small update has primary two foci:

  • Pushing damaging burst condition toward ramping, sustained damage. This should create more opportunities for counterplay, but also feel satisfying to keep conditions rolling once you’ve ramped them up.
    • i.e. We’re tuning some skills that apply damaging conditions so that they apply less stacks up front, but last for longer. In total duration they’re almost the same before and after.
    • e.g. Purging Flames: Burning has been adjusted from 3 stacks for 5 seconds to 2 stacks for 8 seconds.
  • Re-vamping several passive vulnerability traits to offer more distinct opportunities or create synergy with other traits (rather than being standalone). At small amounts vulnerability doesn’t feel good and adding more vulnerability to something that is capped on it has little value. These changes will offer chances to spike up vulnerability when it is ebbing or encourage new build styles.
    • e.g. Mutilate Defenses: This trait has been reworked and renamed to "Expose Defenses". This trait now causes your first attack when entering combat to inflict 5 stacks of vulnerability for 5 seconds. This ability refreshes whenever you use an elite skill.

As always, we’ll be looking for your feedback once you have had a chance to play with the upcoming changes. We’ll start a post here after December 12th to hear your thoughts, so please prepare your most constructive feedback.

See you in the lands!

So does this mean Trailblazers, Nightmare Runes, Malice basically all extra condi duration will be obsolete in WvW? Because real Gvg guild's clenases are on point. So I guess the answer would be to just stack straight condi and hybrid. That will shake the meta up.

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@KeoLegend.5132 said:Forgive my ignorance but where in the world is power better than condi on raids

Just going to paste a response from reddit when this came up in the balance thread there.

vg strongly favors power, gorseval favors power (but not by a huge margin), sabetha... kinda depends, usually condies do better but not by a huge margin, with more tweaks power might become the superior option.

slothasor is go power or go home, mathias is sort of neutral but condies generally do better.

kc is power or bust, xera depends on your strategy, i like her better with condies but if you wanna do her on the edge sub 50% you must use power.

cairn is a dps golem anyway but condies generally do better because of torment and confusion shenanigans, MO is literally a dps golem, samarog strongly favours power and deimos is mostly neutral.

Raids have always been slightly in favor of power but as I mentioned in my previous post there is very little viable power builds left since anet gutted a lot of them already for PvE. These weak power builds need to be buffed and nerfing condi builds just widens the already gap between certain power favored bosses. It would be one thing if there was a lot more viable power builds out there but there isn't. I shouldn't have to swap to Ele or DH when we do KC since Rev's only viable dps right now is condi and they are now trying to take that away.

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@Vulf.3098 said:

@KeoLegend.5132 said:Forgive my ignorance but where in the world is power better than condi on raids

Just going to paste a response from reddit when this came up in the balance thread there.

vg strongly favors power, gorseval favors power (but not by a huge margin), sabetha... kinda depends, usually condies do better but not by a huge margin, with more tweaks power might become the superior option.

slothasor is go power or go home, mathias is sort of neutral but condies generally do better.

kc is power or bust, xera depends on your strategy, i like her better with condies but if you wanna do her on the edge sub 50% you must use power.

cairn is a dps golem anyway but condies generally do better because of torment and confusion shenanigans, MO is literally a dps golem, samarog strongly favours power and deimos is mostly neutral.

Raids have always been slightly in favor of power but as I mentioned in my previous post there is very little viable power builds left since anet gutted a lot of them already for PvE. These weak power builds need to be buffed and nerfing condi builds just widens the already gap between certain power favored bosses. It would be one thing if there was a lot more viable power builds out there but there isn't. I shouldn't have to swap to Ele or DH when we do KC since Rev's only viable dps right now is condi and they are now trying to take that away.

well then im the most dumb player ever. Because ppl told me to make a condi cuz my DH power would suck on raids and here i am after spendind over 700 G to make the perfect condi warrior/banner slave which honestly is 50% of the fun i had with my risky DH

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