Signets of suffering

[Krysard.1364]

So, what about making signets work on shroud baseline cause, you know, it makes kind of sense lul, and get the old trait back? New trait is just.. bad. It killed the viability of signets

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Old signets of suffering needed to die and good riddance.That trait was killing build diversity with signet corrupt bot being the only way to play, while the real corrupts were shelved (well of corruption, corrupt boon).

Also new signets of suffering add a lot more build choices - boosted vampirism makes for a real "heal in shroud" build choice.Undeath lowers lf degen when shrouded and lets you generate life force even without enemies (put a condi on self and let it heal your lf).Locust supports blood builds, which syneregize greatly with it's active and now, also passive.Spite become whooping 270 power that persist through shroud.

I got no complaints about signets of suffering as they are. I may complain about signet of undeath being underpowered, but that's its own problem, not trait's.

If more corruption is needed, then let's start putting it where it should be - on staff, spectral skills, and core death shroud (since it's #2 is a bad joke not a skill to use even when traited with path of corruption).

[mazut.4296]

Mr. Gee admits this trait is not working as they want it to and it will be changed in the future, but nobody knows when.

[Krysard.1364]

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:Old signets of suffering needed to die and good riddance.That trait was killing build diversity with signet corrupt bot being the only way to play, while the real corrupts were shelved (well of corruption, corrupt boon).

Also new signets of suffering add a lot more build choices - boosted vampirism makes for a real "heal in shroud" build choice.Undeath lowers lf degen when shrouded and lets you generate life force even without enemies (put a condi on self and let it heal your lf).Locust supports blood builds, which syneregize greatly with it's active and now, also passive.Spite become whooping 270 power that persist through shroud.

I got no complaints about signets of suffering as they are. I may complain about signet of undeath being underpowered, but that's its own problem, not trait's.

If more corruption is needed, then let's start putting it where it should be - on staff, spectral skills, and core death shroud (since it's #2 is a bad joke not a skill to use even when traited with path of corruption).

Well, in that case, they should be making the trait a lot stronger, and fixing things like signets not working on shroud if you entered it when they were still on cd, but they are up again. Maybe making them work on shroud baseline, and adding something else instead of this feature?

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

Preferably something that incentivizes the actives a bit more.

I like the idea of the improved passives (aside from Plague Signet), but the actives need a kicker as well.

Ideas for the traited improvements:Plague Signet passive: Gain 1 second of Resistance when a transfer happens.Plague Signet active: Corrupt 1 boon

Locust Signet passive: as-isLocust Signet active: gain life force for each foe struck.

Signet of Vampirism passive: change to siphon from the attackerSignet of Vampirism active: debuff lasts 2 seconds longer.

Signet of Spite passive: as-isSignet of Spite active: gain 5 Might for 6 seconds.

Signet of Undeath passive: as-is (the base Signet needs the buff here).Signet of Undeath active: Increased radius and target count increase to 5.

Signet of Undeath, I think the base skill needs a stronger passive and a shorter cast time on the active.

[killfil.3472]

I too think that the signets should work through shroud passively, not as a minor trait in any trait-line or anything, just passively, no matter the build.I am glad they addressed the problem in some way, but I am unsatisfied with it, as I am certain many others are.

[Svarty.8019]

@Krysard.1364 said:So, what about making signets work on shroud baseline cause, you know, it makes kind of sense lul, and get the old trait back? New trait is just.. bad. It killed the viability of signets

Robert Gee said somewhere (I can't find it) that this was not worthy of being a Grandmaster Trait. It's not likely to become baseline, but expect to see it moved ... one day.

[Lexan.5930]

signet of spite in shroud is pretty awesome when you combine it with reaper onslaught, makes RS 1 hit like a truck with full might and vuln. Competes with close to death for raids IMO. The extra power helps throught the whole fight rather than close to death which only helps in the back half of a long fight,, most of my tests show it as a wash in the long run.

basicly the new snignets of spite really helps out reaper and core necro, but is so-so with scourge, unless you plan on healing necro and then locust/vamp might be really good.

[Zero Solstice.9754]

New trait, while underwhelming in a good number of regards, is way healthier towards the atmosphere of defining playstyles and utility choices. It has a clearly defined role that isn't filled by anything else, and it enables a decent number of different build possibilities. The problem is still that from a raw power-level standpoint, most of what the new trait does isn't terribly strong, and doesn't necessarily do anything that you should need a trait in order to do, at least not as a Grandmaster. I'd like to see some form of the trait that maybe rewards using the Signets in some way, rather than trying to promote almost-entirely passive play with minimal direct utility, but the drawing board is wide open on this one going forward.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Zero Solstice.9754 said:New trait, while underwhelming in a good number of regards, is way healthier towards the atmosphere of defining playstyles and utility choices. It has a clearly defined role that isn't filled by anything else, and it enables a decent number of different build possibilities. The problem is still that from a raw power-level standpoint, most of what the new trait does isn't terribly strong, and doesn't necessarily do anything that you should need a trait in order to do, at least not as a Grandmaster. I'd like to see some form of the trait that maybe rewards using the Signets in some way, rather than trying to promote almost-entirely passive play with minimal direct utility, but the drawing board is wide open on this one going forward.

Agreed. I like the improved passive effects, but the trait needs to also do something for the actives.

Not to toot my own horn, but...> @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

Preferably something that incentivizes the actives a bit more.

I like the idea of the improved passives (aside from Plague Signet), but the actives need a kicker as well.

Ideas for the traited improvements:Plague Signet passive: Gain 1 second of Resistance when a transfer happens.Plague Signet active: Corrupt 1 boon

Locust Signet passive: as-isLocust Signet active: gain life force for each foe struck.

Signet of Vampirism passive: change to siphon from the attackerSignet of Vampirism active: debuff lasts 2 seconds longer.

Signet of Spite passive: as-isSignet of Spite active: gain 5 Might for 6 seconds.

Signet of Undeath passive: as-is (the base Signet needs the buff here).Signet of Undeath active: Increased radius and target count increase to 5.

Signet of Undeath, I think the base skill needs a stronger passive and a shorter cast time on the active.

[kKagari.6804]

Urgh, I've never felt the desire for a trait-rollback so much. Not for Vital Persistance, not for Speed of Shadows. The new Signets of Suffering is a complete regression in game design.

[Zero Solstice.9754]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Zero Solstice.9754 said:New trait, while underwhelming in a good number of regards, is way healthier towards the atmosphere of defining playstyles and utility choices. It has a clearly defined role that isn't filled by anything else, and it enables a decent number of different build possibilities. The problem is still that from a raw power-level standpoint, most of what the new trait does isn't terribly strong, and doesn't necessarily do anything that you should need a trait in order to do, at least not as a Grandmaster. I'd like to see some form of the trait that maybe rewards using the Signets in some way, rather than trying to promote almost-entirely passive play with minimal direct utility, but the drawing board is wide open on this one going forward.

Agreed. I like the improved passive effects, but the trait needs to also do something for the actives.

Not to toot my own horn, but...> @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

Preferably something that incentivizes the actives a bit more.

I like the idea of the improved passives (aside from Plague Signet), but the actives need a kicker as well.

Ideas for the traited improvements:Plague Signet passive: Gain 1 second of Resistance when a transfer happens.Plague Signet active: Corrupt 1 boon

Locust Signet passive: as-isLocust Signet active: gain life force for each foe struck.

Signet of Vampirism passive: change to siphon from the attackerSignet of Vampirism active: debuff lasts 2 seconds longer.

Signet of Spite passive: as-isSignet of Spite active: gain 5 Might for 6 seconds.

Signet of Undeath passive: as-is (the base Signet needs the buff here).Signet of Undeath active: Increased radius and target count increase to 5.

Signet of Undeath, I think the base skill needs a stronger passive and a shorter cast time on the active.

I like where your head is at, just not all of your desired effects. The Plague Signet change means that with proper Boon Duration you can passively upkeep 66% Resistance uptime with no cooldown in an average fight, which is insane. Signet of Spite active is pretty anemic. Vampirism could perhaps amp up a bit to offset the teamplay aspect and cast-time, maybe modify it for something like "For 3 seconds, retain Signet of Vampirism's passive and it has no cooldown" on top of its usual effect in order to give it an interesting "overcharge" style effect for putting the regular passive on cooldown. I like the ideas for Locust and Undeath though, perhaps I might even leave Undeath as it is and instead give a large Barrier to the targets that get revived by it in order to allow them to truly "defy" death and attempt to resustain back up to full. Admittedly an effect like this can and will be generally bonkers, especially in the large-scale WvW environment, but I think it could be sweet to try and give unique tools to the Necromancer for filling the Support role, and this would be a very unique style of Warbanner.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

Fair enough on your assessments. The high resistance uptime proposed on Plague Signet is certainly potentially problematic, and I agree on Signet of Spite. I just don't have any good ideas for the later and the former is a little tricky. Maybe reduce condition damage taken by 20% after a transfer? I do think that transferring 2 conditions at once makes it a liability rather than utility.

Signet of Vampirism, the thought was letting people claim all of the stacks with more regularity in dungeons and such as well as increasing what you, yourself could claim when you use it solo.

[Zero Solstice.9754]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:Fair enough on your assessments. The high resistance uptime proposed on Plague Signet is certainly potentially problematic, and I agree on Signet of Spite. I just don't have any good ideas for the later and the former is a little tricky. Maybe reduce condition damage taken by 20% after a transfer? I do think that transferring 2 conditions at once makes it a liability rather than utility.

Signet of Vampirism, the thought was letting people claim all of the stacks with more regularity in dungeons and such as well as increasing what you, yourself could claim when you use it solo.

Definitely correct in the liability regard of Plague Signet. Signet of Vampirism is a tricky one with how its base form functions. There's a ton of open foundation for where some of these utilities and an accompanying trait could go, so nothing is necessarily off the table™.

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

I've been using the Signer GM I've been doing quite well as far as survivability and things die quickly as well, its nice to not have to worry about any utilities other than my golem for breakers, I find I've never had shroud uptime as high as what I have currently, buffed sig of Vamp is a most comparable to the minion.

[Ghostt.1293]

i wonder how this will work with scourge since we dont go in to shroud

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Ghostt.1293 said:i wonder how this will work with scourge since we dont go in to shroud

You get the improved passives and shorter cooldowns, but no other benefit.