making ruins more effective

[Erysium.4501]

in the middle of Borderlands (Desert and Alpine) there are ruins that can be captured. i would like to find out how satisfied you are with them. are changes appropriate? Do you have any ideas? in this topic i want to collect ideas and encourage discussion. 

[Bizgurk.5639]

I wish they were easier to take alone.

[MedievalThings.5417]

They could make ruins more effective by putting them back in pve where they belong.

[Gop.8713]

I wouldn't mind if they were removed, but they don't bother me . . .

I would miss the easy weekly given how buggy the defense weeklies are, but that's not that big of a deal . . .

[Sonork.2916]

Actually rewarding people who manage to help claim, or defend the ruins would be a good first step to making them more attractive to cap.  Atm your participation doesn't go up at all when you cap one or help claim it for your side.

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

I think it’d be cool to change the ruins to something never ever done before. I’m thinking maybe something like removing all that dumb land and putting a giant Lake in the middle. Maybe have a single island. Oh oh, where some quaggans live. And when you help them, they assualt both Bay and Hills. I think that’d be really cool…

Then we could put a single harvesting node in the middle to reward players

[Sviel.7493]

The ruins were never a good idea.

Since they're concentrated in the center of the map, you can grab them all with a zerg (provided you have the biggest zerg).  Thus, they become a 'Win More' mechanic that has relatively small actual impact but contributes significant frustration.  The biggest factor is that they provide extra PPK potential with stomps, but zergs often skip stomps so that's not really the draw for them.

The Shrines on RBL are a much improved take on this concept.  You can still zerg them down, but you're not doing it in the center of the map without committing to a target.  Capping the shrines telegraphs your attack and gives the opposing team time to respond.  In addition, the shrine bonus is much greater for the owner of the keep than for the person flipping them.  You can't steal the bonuses away and use them to club sparse defenders--but there's significant impact if someone goes behind the zerg and back-caps the shrines.  They are legitimately good targets for solos and small teams since they're largely out of the way.

 

Most importantly, shrines actually influenced player behavior in the moment to moment whereas ruins are just something to cap while people form up or while choosing your next target.  Ruins are a boring mechanic that feel bad to interact with most of the time--whether you're taking them or getting rolled by the people that did.

P.S. The shrine effects are COOL.  I love running on lava and yeeting myself off cliffs. 

[Ronin.4501]

31 minutes ago, Sviel.7493 said:

P.S. The shrine effects are COOL.  I love running on lava and yeeting myself off cliffs. 

Especially when you own all 3 Air shrines and use it to randomly fall out of the sky...or that one time it launched me straight into a cliff and I died. 🤣

[TheGrimm.5624]

10 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

They could even monetize it, and then we could stop having excuses about why the game mode makes no money.

That would serve the guild that claims but not all others that aid in the take. I think we need player kill quests that would be buy in costing up front, have time limits, and have payouts that return investments but raise challenge and risk to achieving and rewarding if done else be bane if not. I see this more as options for all players versus a group or guild. 

[Erysium.4501]

21 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Everything is about boon balls these days, and roaming is garbage either running into Sonic the willbender or Cena you can't see me thieves, or group gankers cause people won't do 1v1's anymore because of sonic or cena, or they just running mini boon ball to 5v1 gank players, or two broken synergy duos with either condi spam or cc spam or boon spam to gank solos.

So yeah ruins are pretty worthless, get rid of bloodlust, stick a mini smc that looks like camp in the middle and call it a day, cause we can't have siege defending either. Or since anet is on this lord upgrade binge, make it so bloodlust gives your lords the ability to spit silver at you every 5secs as merc payment so you stay in the ring to get farmed.

Yeah, I'm getting real bitter at these wvw balance and changes. 🙄🍦

i'll try to make the changes and effects visible here with my posts in the forum. i hope anet reacts a bit. thanks for your contribution!

 

19 hours ago, UncreativeGreen.2019 said:

I think it’d be cool to change the ruins to something never ever done before. I’m thinking maybe something like removing all that dumb land and putting a giant Lake in the middle. Maybe have a single island. Oh oh, where some quaggans live. And when you help them, they assualt both Bay and Hills. I think that’d be really cool…

Then we could put a single harvesting node in the middle to reward players

i like your idea. it would be interesting if factions such as centaurs are influenced when the ruins are captured. maybe then the upper map areas of the alpines would be more interesting and game-changing and possibly do something useful. whatever that will be.

[Gorani.7205]

55 minutes ago, Erysium.4501 said:

I like your idea. it would be interesting if factions such as centaurs are influenced when the ruins are captured. maybe then the upper map areas of the alpines would be more interesting and game-changing and possibly do something useful. whatever that will be.

FYI - He basically described how the area has been before they added the current five ruin situation to create bloodlust. ☺️

[Dinas Dragonbane.2978]

Quaggan lake made the most sense balance wise, just zergs don't like fighting in water, or even swimming in it. It's a wonder bay didn't get changed to have no water at all

[joneirikb.7506]

Can't resist: Just fill the entire map with water, and use the ruins to control water level... 🙄

[Omega.6801]

It would be hell to balance. The WvW crowd would hate it. And we've kinda been there iin the past...but I would like the Ruins to work like secondary objectives in PvP do. They should give some score but also have some fancy mechanic to them like the big cannon the Grawl point in EotM has or a squad of tough NPCs that take a nearby tower or something.

[TheGrimm.5624]

9 hours ago, joneirikb.7506 said:

Can't resist: Just fill the entire map with water, and use the ruins to control water level... 🙄

lol! I see what you are doing!

I know, 32 WvW toons and I admit most with no breather, a lot with the intro one and most missing runes. 

SHAME SHAME SHAME!

And here I thought of you as a friend....................

 

 

Err... I mean who doesn't face up to the challenge of leaving out gear to up their challenge level! (Remind me what's an aqua breather and where do we get one?) Free diving for the win FTW!!!!!!

 

🙂 

 

 

 

 

 

[Eugenides.1274]

Bring back the orb.

[MedievalThings.5417]

1 hour ago, Eugenides.1274 said:

Bring back the orb.

This will never happen.  The reason is that orbs showcased the blatant hacking that was taking place.  This was pre-glider and mounts, and people were flying all over the place to get the orbs.  It showed how Anet was using ZERO tools to prevent cheating, which is why they got removed.  That way Anet could go back to pretending people aren't still using the same cheat program they have been using since launch.

[joneirikb.7506]

On 5/19/2024 at 10:01 AM, TheGrimm.5624 said:

lol! I see what you are doing!

I know, 32 WvW toons and I admit most with no breather, a lot with the intro one and most missing runes. 

SHAME SHAME SHAME!

And here I thought of you as a friend....................

 

 

Err... I mean who doesn't face up to the challenge of leaving out gear to up their challenge level! (Remind me what's an aqua breather and where do we get one?) Free diving for the win FTW!!!!!!

 

🙂 

But think of the change to meta? How we could finally break up the stacking, the zergs and the boon-borg! I bet half the boon generating skills doesn't even work UW! Think of a group of 10 roaming thieves and rangers, bating a boon-borg around and just as they get near water, they have their roaming friends activate and raise the water level, so everyone get caught swimming! It will be like putting a horde of quaggans into a mixmaster!

See, UW combat fixes ALL of WvW problems! Clever use of adjusting water levels would equal the field of taking objectives as well, as you can just swim over walls, no need to single handedly ram the door to take back your keep for the 5th time after the zerg been there, you can now take the keep as fast as the zerg did!

And now zergs are going to get so paranoid they're going to put a group of people to guard the ruins on "Tusnami control", "Make sure they don't activate that piece of kitten!"

Edit: Oh, and swimming Yaks. Win!

Edited May 20 by joneirikb.7506

[ArgothCZ.6420]

More participation would be nice. The two minutes it gives currently are small. If chaining the ruins, it's barely enough to sustain the participation, but it's not that important. Most people capture 5 for weekly and then only when commander orders them

[TheGrimm.5624]

5 hours ago, joneirikb.7506 said:

But think of the change to meta? How we could finally break up the stacking, the zergs and the boon-borg! I bet half the boon generating skills doesn't even work UW! Think of a group of 10 roaming thieves and rangers, bating a boon-borg around and just as they get near water, they have their roaming friends activate and raise the water level, so everyone get caught swimming! It will be like putting a horde of quaggans into a mixmaster!

See, UW combat fixes ALL of WvW problems! Clever use of adjusting water levels would equal the field of taking objectives as well, as you can just swim over walls, no need to single handedly ram the door to take back your keep for the 5th time after the zerg been there, you can now take the keep as fast as the zerg did!

And now zergs are going to get so paranoid they're going to put a group of people to guard the ruins on "Tusnami control", "Make sure they don't activate that piece of kitten!"

Edit: Oh, and swimming Yaks. Win!

lol. No I appreciate the thought, just not the idea of having to create all that gear I skipped lol.

Shrines and bloodlust are a good mechanic and could still be applied if those spaces needed to be re-tasked for another purpose. Example, ABL, leave the south one in place, move the other 4 to the corners of the maps so that it would require more coordination to cap all of them but less to cap and hold three and creates more potential fights along the way. That would also give use to the spaces in the north ABL that don't currently have any value outside of a waystation for roamers evading pursuit. 

DBL already has enough space between the shrines to create various fights in the open areas between them. 

[Knighthonor.4061]

Ruins should be something for summoning a powerful NPC ally like in Old AV from WoW when we did the escort mission to summon those powerful Boss mobs for the faction to go on a rampage and change the tides of battle

[Dawdler.8521]

4 hours ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

Ruins should be something for summoning a powerful NPC ally like in Old AV from WoW when we did the escort mission to summon those powerful Boss mobs for the faction to go on a rampage and change the tides of battle

And people say Anet doesn’t know what the WvWers truly want when Anet said WvWers are really into PvE, pffff.

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

26 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

And people say Anet doesn’t know what the WvWers truly want when Anet said WvWers are really into PvE, pffff.

WvWers do want PvE above all else tho, look at the bag/npc farming they try to do. 😛

[Ronin.4501]

On 5/17/2024 at 5:09 PM, UncreativeGreen.2019 said:

I think it’d be cool to change the ruins to something never ever done before. I’m thinking maybe something like removing all that dumb land and putting a giant Lake in the middle. Maybe have a single island. Oh oh, where some quaggans live. And when you help them, they assualt both Bay and Hills. I think that’d be really cool…

Then we could put a single harvesting node in the middle to reward players

But this time, can we at least KILL the quaggans?? And bonus points if Anet adds some cool Quaggan screams and dying gasp sound effects.

[Gazrul.3086]

The ruins should either be removed, reworked or replaced with something else entirely. Right now they are incredibly boring and unrewarding.