Please stop doing masteries that grant "extra" things

[Boogiepop Void.6473]

Please stop doing materies that grant players "bonus" or "extra" things from specific events or activities. These do not read to us as improvements but as content gates; "don't do X before you have this mastery done, you aren't getting the actual rewards". This can be seen in conversations in chat, with people essentially either asking if they should do X and being told to wait until they have the mastery unlocked, or advising people in chat to not bother "wasting their time" doing X without the mastery. Note that this is not exclusive; there are some people going the other way ("don't worry about it, just do the stuff and you will get the mastery later"), but this being an MMO, min-maxing playtime/reward is very much a well known player behavior.

What does this mean specifically for SoTO? People avoiding doing rifts any more than required for the story until they have Rift Mastery, people avoiding Convergences until they have Convergence Mastery, and now people not wanting to do the new meta without Wayfinder Mastery.

Edited May 24 by Boogiepop Void.6473

[Edge.1653]

Most of the masteries, like this, feel like ArenaNet feeling obligated to create a mastery for another grind. The masteries that came with Inner Nayos in particular just feel like completely pointless grinds.

I like masteries when they do meaningful things and feel like they have a purpose. I don't like masteries when it's functionally just a mild QoL buff that should be folded into the core functionality of whatever it's focused on.

[Teknomancer.4895]

I still think my favorite why-is-this-a-mastery are the ones that let you open Arcane Treasures.

I need a mastery just to open a box containing mostly garbage, and I can't even just open the box; I have to play Simon Says first?

Brilliant design.

[frazazel.7501]

We've had bad masteries since the beginning. I agree that I don't like them, but at least know that it's not a new trend.

At least the one that we got in this patch feels better than the one we got in the previous patch.

[TheNurgle.4825]

2 hours ago, Boogiepop Void.6473 said:

but this being an MMO, min-maxing playtime/reward is very much a well known player behavior.

Only small amount of players actually min-max in MMOs. That is even lower in GW2 since GW2 is really casual MMO without any grind. Btw you have content gates in masteries for so many years just read few of them.

I do agree that Provide some protections against Eparch in the Citadel of Zakiros. in Wayfinder mastery is stupid. Personally I would rather have masteries which increase rewards than "unlock" content.

Rift's mastery is kind of useless since most ppl ignore rifts. Ppl were doing convergence without mastery and some even stop doing any content with essence as reward since it just takes space in your bags.

28 minutes ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

I still think my favorite why-is-this-a-mastery are the ones that let you open Arcane Treasures.

I need a mastery just to open a box containing mostly garbage, and I can't even just open the box; I have to play Simon Says first?

Brilliant design.

This is sad, but you know what is worse "Time Running Out" debuff which does not let you use mount. It is like "How to make gameplay less fluid and more annoying 101".

[costepj.5120]

Exalted Purification says hello 🙂

[eyelogix.1654]

3 hours ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

 This is sad, but you know what is worse "Time Running Out" debuff which does not let you use mount. It is like "How to make gameplay less fluid and more annoying 101".

Oh god I hate that one. They should just remove it once you got the last mastery. It disappears on the big one.

I've also noticed when you have that debuff and you glide you go bye bye if you are not careful 🤣

[Futa.4375]

They painted themselves into a corner with the masteries (same thing with the Skyscale), considering how GW2 works they simply cannot keep adding game changing masteries so most of the masteries end up being quite ridiculous. At the same time, remove the masteries and you remove quite a chunk of content in an expansion, considering we don't even get that much content this is not possible, it's easy content for them to add and link it with achievements at the same time.
I don't even know what interesting things they could possibly add in the next expansion after open world legendary armor and mostly bad masteries.

I have to say though that the masteries for opening chests are insulting. Even more so when they basically changed the stupid mini-game to make it faster on the last update and added a mastery to make it even faster now. Why bother me for months with a time-wasting system, that doesn't even work the same way for small and big chests, in the first place?

[Inssengrimm.7924]

The Masteries are great... When there is people actualy making an effort behind them and putting them as a reward and gameplay boon.

Making annoying mechanics to then "reduce the annoyance" isn't masterful at all, is in fact, just horrible game design. 

[Dark Red Killian.3946]

In a game where the gear maxes out and never gets better expac after expac, they introduce masteries not only as a way to implement new features or ways to move, but also to serve as sort of a progression through the expac. For example, character A going into expac can’t access everything yet and shouldn’t get the max rewards right away while max mastery guy who played the content has access to everything and gets max rewards. it’s a way to progress without saying here go get this newer, better gear. It also prevents someone new just getting ported to wherever they want and immediately getting all the max rewards without doing the work. The masteries have an impact on the expansion only, which doesn’t negate the other content in other expacs. It may seem dumb and boring and lazy, but really this is how the horizontal progression works. 

[WRay.2391]

11 hours ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

Only small amount of players actually min-max in MMOs. That is even lower in GW2 since GW2 is really casual MMO without any grind. Btw you have content gates in masteries for so many years just read few of them.

I do agree that Provide some protections against Eparch in the Citadel of Zakiros. in Wayfinder mastery is stupid. Personally I would rather have masteries which increase rewards than "unlock" content.

Rift's mastery is kind of useless since most ppl ignore rifts. Ppl were doing convergence without mastery and some even stop doing any content with essence as reward since it just takes space in your bags.

This is sad, but you know what is worse "Time Running Out" debuff which does not let you use mount. It is like "How to make gameplay less fluid and more annoying 101".

I look at Wayfinder mastery as a way to unlock gizmo that allows you to convert useless mats into other trash and let you sell this trash immediately. IMO best reward of SotO so far...

I almost unlocked Sandstorm collectors edition, but this one is a converter, so it takes the cake.

UPDATE: You apparently cannot sell items with this converter 😞 Makes it meh ... I regret maxing mastery for this.

Edited May 25 by WRay.2391
Typo

[Zebulous.2934]

Look at these chests, you can't have them.  If you continue with the story at the intended pace you will see more chests just out of reach. 

You could, of course, skip around and collect mastery points and grind experience.  Visit areas before the story would take you to them, interact with npcs before you have met them in the story.

 "I was there, but I wasn't allowed to do the thing." 

"Now I can do the thing, but that would be my only reason to go back there."

[bq pd.2148]

9 hours ago, TheNurgle.4825 said:

This is sad, but you know what is worse "Time Running Out" debuff which does not let you use mount. It is like "How to make gameplay less fluid and more annoying 101".

5 hours ago, eyelogix.1654 said:

Oh god I hate that one. They should just remove it once you got the last mastery. It disappears on the big one.

using weapon swap will remove that debuff, still annoying but a bit less so.

[Infusion.7149]

I do not understand the rationale behind the gating of the vendor for junk conversions (Prismaticite crystal , Congealed Putrescence, or other that are not even SotO *) but I sort of understand the reasoning for opening arcane chests time. The reason is some people are abusing the map or just running no-key chests. This makes it inefficient to do so.

Not getting fully rewarded for the meta is a problem IMO.

*  Gharr Leadclaw can exchange currency, materials, and more! He can be found west of Empyrean Plaza next to a thornsprout bloom.

Edited May 25 by Infusion.7149

[Lion.6590]

Many games use this kind of progression where you start playing it and see something that you cannot acquire, then later on the progression you get an upgrade that allows you to backtrack and get that thing you couldn't before. This isn't something new in the industry and it's pretty normal, arcane chests minigames are just bad and not satisfactory so I hope they get improved/reworked in the next xpac if they plan to use it again.

[kiroho.4738]

In general I'm fine with exta-stuff masteries. But only in form of filler masteries together with the main ones, not as the main mastery of a release.

Update 2's only mastery gave the ability to craft obsidian armor. Update 3's only mastery gives the ability to use a vendor and extra loot and a buff or one specific meta.

I mean, that's not at all something to look forward to.

[Chyro.1462]

The main masteries were in the expansion release.

I don't mind that they only added smaller masteries without large impact. And the most recent once felt quite nice to unlock, some QoL you didn't know you needed but is nice to have after you unlocked it.

Don't really see anything about it that says "Don't do content until you get this mastery". You can do the new meta just fine without it, and it's still rewarding. You get a lil extra chest if you have the mastery, sure. And it can have good stuff in it if you're lucky. But nothing that is an absolute must-have and that would make the meta a waste of time without it.

Edited May 25 by Chyro.1462

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

It is weird that they have "extra loot" masteries, when they can just make it a collection or something that when completed does the same effect. Unless Masteries are coded in a way to make it universally easier to tie bonus loot to pools.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

I agree. Masteries should bring meaningful character improvements. Most masteries do just that but some are just a bit cheap.

[KindredPhoenyx.8976]

On 5/25/2024 at 6:45 AM, Inssengrimm.7924 said:

Making annoying mechanics to then "reduce the annoyance" isn't masterful at all, is in fact, just horrible game design. 

Honestly this was my thought as well. I saw this mastery and immediately thought to myself "why wasn't this just baked into the initial release?" Catch up mechanics aside for the armor, the reduced amount of times you press the button to open the arcane chests really should have just been there from the get go.

Except every time I do open a box now I have to wait for the long animation lock to end before I can mount again. Drudge.

Edited May 28 by KindredPhoenyx.8976
English hard.

[Inssengrimm.7924]

Over the now single button press chest, the mastery doesn't help with the 10 second timer for the puzzle.

So even if you now open chest in 1 button, you cannot mount for the 10 seconds just the same, making this Mastery actually useless lol.

[costepj.5120]

Just dodge after the chest unlocks and you can mount immediately.

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, costepj.5120 said:

Just dodge after the chest unlocks and you can mount immediately.

or weapon swap.

[plasticzaku.5143]

SotO's design has seemed very confused in general, and a lot of masteries for the sake of masteries. IBS had the same problems with strike missions; content clearly intended to be friendly to new/casual players, except rewards and mechanics were gated behind masteries that only non-casual players were going to grind out. Who's the audience for this content supposed to be? HoT's mastery frontloading was awful but at least that expac was marketed as being for experienced players.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

Masteries that unlock bonus rewards are a good idea when free accounts can access the content. That way they can give players nice loot without worrying about bots using free accounts.

But when they are added to content that requires payment to access, its effect is simply slowing down the entry of materials in the following days of a realease as people fill their masteries, so the market does not get flooded too fast in the early days and the market stays more stable. 
But there has to be better ways to achieve that than wasting mastery slots in it. 

Masteries should unlock features and abilities, not just bonuses.