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Malyck Obsessors, Where Y'all At?


mandala.8507

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How come I read a comment on this lore forum every other week about Malyck and his "dropped plot thread", but when Anet gives you what you want and mentions his tree in-game, I don't hear a peep?

Wicked Tree. Discuss. Go.

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Source, please.  I'd give  a lot as a Sylvari-main player to see a dropped character like Malyck come back even if only to wrap the story up (they missed a prime opportunity to show where he's been with the Astral Ward on far assignment).

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Posted (edited)

Wicked Tree?

Are you talking about the lorebook Eparch's Fear from The Eleventh Hour?

That was from the previous dragonrise, when Isgarren and Eparch first met, about Mordremoth and just a generic Blighting Tree.

For those curious what I'm talking about: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kryptis_Memory_(The_Eleventh_Hour)

Zero indication of relating to Malyck - nor is such likely, as Malyck's tree should be from the cave of seeds Ronan found according to Amaranda.

Edited by Konig Des Todes.2086
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you're right and I'm wrong. whatever.

An ancient dark tree that based its Sylvari off of a Kryptis Lord would be a million times more interesting than whatever Malyck's tree would end up being anyway.

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18 hours ago, mandala.8507 said:

you're right and I'm wrong. whatever.

An ancient dark tree that based its Sylvari off of a Kryptis Lord would be a million times more interesting than whatever Malyck's tree would end up being anyway.

That would be interesting, but such a tree would be making mordrem subservient to Mordremoth unless the Forgotten got to purify it (or something else did) in either case.

But it just doesn't line up with Malyck's lore regardless. 🤷‍♂️

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On 5/30/2024 at 8:58 AM, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

What if it's another (sky) fractal made by the wizards which malycks pod fell from? 

I could absolutely see the wizards do an experiment on the sylvari. 

As Drax said, fractals didn't enter Tyria until the kryptis invasion that came about due to the Void outbreak damaging the World Spire and Beacons protecting Tyria from the Mists.

Malyck is 12 years too old for such an origin, unless it was intentional Wizard/Astral Ward sabotage of taking his pod out of fractal without it resetting like when Dessa tried to leave her fractal, and dropping it into the Maguuma.

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Seems unlikely. There's many pieces of evidence, such as the white stag's connection to the dream and Maly k's lack of conne tion that points to it being something that is connected to Tyria that both Mordremoth and the Pale Tree were able to tap into.

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21 hours ago, perilisk.1874 said:

So, The Dream could be an ability that Mordremoth absorbed from the Kryptis, I guess? What with Nayos being the realm of dreams and all.

I would argue no, because in the lorebook Eparch's Fear, we get this:

Sleep, dreams; something watches, something enters!
Wake. My brother's screams. Vines dragging. Gone.

This reads as if Mordremoth entered Eparch's dreams to me. And (obviously) this happens before Mordremoth absorbs Eparch's brother. So unless there were kryptis absorbed by Mordremoth before that, Mordremoth already had a connection to the Dream of Dreams.
Then we have this immediately after:

Following. A dark place. A wicked tree. My brother, suspended. Absorbed.
A voice. Dominating. It IS the jungle.
I resist, I...flee. Fear. Fear. FEAR.
It knows, sees through my dreams!
Days, nights, I scurry. Flee.

It enters Eparch's dreams almost immediately after absorbing the brother. Now it is possible it instantly gained such an ability, but we saw with Primordus in LWS3 and Kralkatorrik in PoF/LWS4 it took the Elder Dragons a few weeks / months to absorb and utilize the other dead Elder Dragons' powers. Not only that, the fact the Elder Dragons consume all sorts of magic, but only displayed extra abilities when consuming the magic of fallen Elder Dragons and former gods, the sole exception being Aurene eating Joko - except End of Dragons implies she lost her lich powers by then and is no longer immortal - implies that the absorbed magic has to be particularly potent in contrast to the rest of their magic, and once that "rest of their magic" increases in quantity, it either overpowers or alters the absorbed power. This notion is furthered by Primordus in IBS, where he had enough time (years) from Mordremoth's and Zhaitan's death that he was able to alter that magic into his own domain, thus losing the Death-Touched and Vine-Touched destroyers in favor of ever stronger fiery destroyers.
What this means is twofold:

  1. Eparch's brother would have needed to be exceptionally powerful - demigod status basically - for Mordremoth's magical abilities to be influenced by him. And Eparch in SotO doesn't reach that level, even after consuming hundreds of fellow kryptis.
  2. Even if he did gain new powers from Eparch's brother, after a few years, that power would be assimilated into his old power; resulting in the new power dissipating while the old power grows stronger.

Additionally, Mordremoth was already a being "more of mind than body" as the game likes to call it, which is no doubt tied to his connection to the Dream of Dreams as is.

 

But it's honestly vague enough that such is plausible.

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8 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

the sole exception being Aurene eating Joko - except End of Dragons implies she lost her lich powers by then and is no longer immortal - implies that the absorbed magic has to be particularly potent in contrast to the rest of their magic, and once that "rest of their magic" increases in quantity, it either overpowers or alters the absorbed power.

My interpretation was that she lost it after being drained of magics with extractor cannon, and one could argue that the discharge in reactor could disperse joko magics too much for Aurene to reabsorb it properly.but with lack of sources confirming or denying both interpretations could be it.

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15 hours ago, Trejgon.9367 said:

My interpretation was that she lost it after being drained of magics with extractor cannon, and one could argue that the discharge in reactor could disperse joko magics too much for Aurene to reabsorb it properly.but with lack of sources confirming or denying both interpretations could be it.

The line is brought up at the beginning of EoD, before Ankka hit Aurene with the extractor cannon.

Aurene: And I can't see past it.
<Character name>: Are you sure? Does it mean you die?
Aurene: I'm not sure of anything. Except my urge to respond. To say, "Yes, I'm here!"
<Character name>: You're not scared?
Aurene: I'm intrigued! I'm intensely curious! And even if I die, we know I won't stay dead.
<Character name>: We think.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Convergence_(story)

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5 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

The line is brought up at the beginning of EoD, before Ankka hit Aurene with the extractor cannon.

Aurene: And I can't see past it.
<Character name>: Are you sure? Does it mean you die?
Aurene: I'm not sure of anything. Except my urge to respond. To say, "Yes, I'm here!"
<Character name>: You're not scared?
Aurene: I'm intrigued! I'm intensely curious! And even if I die, we know I won't stay dead.
<Character name>: We think.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Convergence_(story)

Auerene in this one stays pretty convinced that she is still immortal, before being hit with extractor cannon. Not sure why commander would suddenly at this point be sceptical of it tho, since there was no reason given prior to that to imply that ascending to ED-hood should render lich powers inert.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Trejgon.9367 said:

Auerene in this one stays pretty convinced that she is still immortal, before being hit with extractor cannon. Not sure why commander would suddenly at this point be sceptical of it tho, since there was no reason given prior to that to imply that ascending to ED-hood should render lich powers inert.

Likely because the last time a crystal dragon failed to see past a certain point, she (Glint) died in battle with Kralkatorrik. And we already had Primordus who assimilated the consumed magic back into his own domain.
Wouldn't be hard to assume Aurene might be about to die, her immortality assimilated into her domain of crystal/prism/light, though in the end it was just a loss of almost all her magic and nearly dying.

Edited by Konig Des Todes.2086
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11 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Likely because the last time a crystal dragon failed to see past a certain point, she (Glint) died in battle with Kralkatorrik.

That is a very good point, question would be if commander knew about that 🤔I don't recall Destiny's Edge being very talkative about that fight.

11 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

And we already had Primordus who assimilated the consumed magic back into his own domain.

That is also very fair notion.

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7 hours ago, Trejgon.9367 said:

That is a very good point, question would be if commander knew about that 🤔I don't recall Destiny's Edge being very talkative about that fight.

I think it might have been brought up sometime in season 4, although it turns out that Glint did predict at least some things that happened after her own death. Possibly not purely through her own gift of prophecy, though.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/6/2024 at 4:26 PM, Trejgon.9367 said:

That is a very good point, question would be if commander knew about that 🤔I don't recall Destiny's Edge being very talkative about that fight.

Yes, because the first time it's brought up is in Path of Fire, the story step where we visit Glint's Lair and destroy the spear.

Glint: Prophecy is not always a gift. Often I see things I wish I hadn't. But when the vision is clouded, I am most uneasy.
Glint: The heroes have gathered, and Kralkatorrik approaches.
Glint: I am not yet prepared to face the Elder Dragon—and distressingly, I cannot see beyond the coming battle.
Glint: Is it because I die? I can't die without finishing my work. I have to stop Kralkatorrik.
Glint: The Forgotten told me much, but not everything... What did they tell the Six? What do the gods know that I do not?
Glint: So much is unclear, but I'm out of time. I must keep my faith, and hope that my children will carry on my legacy.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crystalline_Memories

And, well, we learn that indeed, she died. Might not have been the reason, but it's the most logical conclusion the Commander could come to.

On 6/6/2024 at 11:37 PM, draxynnic.3719 said:

I think it might have been brought up sometime in season 4, although it turns out that Glint did predict at least some things that happened after her own death. Possibly not purely through her own gift of prophecy, though.

Her ghost predicted stuff after her death, based on the fact her predicting more things came from Gwen.

Edited by Konig Des Todes.2086
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8 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Her ghost predicted stuff after her death, based on the fact her predicting more things came from Gwen.

Earlier events in Season 4 also indicated that she predicted some of the things that would happen with respect to Aurene, unless she was somehow able to influence the trials and (apparently) recorded messages from the Mists. However, it's possible that was based, in part, on Kralkatorrik's visions rather than her own. Whatever her journal entries - likely recorded before Destiny's Edge arrived - might say, the impression I had during the planning of the battle in the book was that deep down she knew what the outcome was going to be even if she hadn't actually seen it.

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4 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Earlier events in Season 4 also indicated that she predicted some of the things that would happen with respect to Aurene, unless she was somehow able to influence the trials and (apparently) recorded messages from the Mists. However, it's possible that was based, in part, on Kralkatorrik's visions rather than her own. Whatever her journal entries - likely recorded before Destiny's Edge arrived - might say, the impression I had during the planning of the battle in the book was that deep down she knew what the outcome was going to be even if she hadn't actually seen it.

Devs confirmed that the dialogue in the trials were done by an artificial construct using her voice and was modified based on the scion and champion that entered. So Glint didn't pre-design those trials specifically for Aurene and the Commander - had Vlast entered, it would have been different.

Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20201020094327/https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/804120/#Comment_804120

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39 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Devs confirmed that the dialogue in the trials were done by an artificial construct using her voice and was modified based on the scion and champion that entered. So Glint didn't pre-design those trials specifically for Aurene and the Commander - had Vlast entered, it would have been different.

Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20201020094327/https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/804120/#Comment_804120

That would explain the trials specifically, but there's also the three signs Ogden was looking for - the egg hatching was probably easy enough to predict, but Ogden somehow knew that Joko's death was an important step before a scion would be ready to face Kralkatorrik. That doesn't seem to be something that could be extrapolated directly from what was known at the time of Glint's death without some use as prophecy, especially since as far as we know, Aurene had no directive to kill Joko - she did that in order to save the PC, and events between Glint's death and Joko's could have played out very differently. A conflict between Joko and a scion seems a pretty weak thread to centre the Legacy on unless someone somewhere knew that was part of the puzzle.

But like I said, it's possible that the Legacy was partially built on prophecies apart from her own. It's possible that Kralkatorrik knew from his own vision that the dragon that killed him would be one that he had killed before but had somehow revived itself, and passed that information onto Glint - either to pressure Glint to prevent it, or because Saneatorrik was playing a double game and provided that information knowing it would make it a self-fulfilling prophecy. Glint might then have been on the lookout for things that could allow a scion to survive being killed by Kralkatorrik, and eating a lich's magic would be one way to do it. It's possible that she'd planned for the possibility of it happening through other means, but we'll probably never see those contingencies. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

That would explain the trials specifically, but there's also the three signs Ogden was looking for - the egg hatching was probably easy enough to predict, but Ogden somehow knew that Joko's death was an important step before a scion would be ready to face Kralkatorrik. That doesn't seem to be something that could be extrapolated directly from what was known at the time of Glint's death without some use as prophecy, especially since as far as we know, Aurene had no directive to kill Joko - she did that in order to save the PC, and events between Glint's death and Joko's could have played out very differently. A conflict between Joko and a scion seems a pretty weak thread to centre the Legacy on unless someone somewhere knew that was part of the puzzle.

But like I said, it's possible that the Legacy was partially built on prophecies apart from her own. It's possible that Kralkatorrik knew from his own vision that the dragon that killed him would be one that he had killed before but had somehow revived itself, and passed that information onto Glint - either to pressure Glint to prevent it, or because Saneatorrik was playing a double game and provided that information knowing it would make it a self-fulfilling prophecy. Glint might then have been on the lookout for things that could allow a scion to survive being killed by Kralkatorrik, and eating a lich's magic would be one way to do it. It's possible that she'd planned for the possibility of it happening through other means, but we'll probably never see those contingencies. 

Yeah, Joko's death being a "requirement" was... a very out of place moment compared to the other two (egg hatching, hourglass glowing). Felt contrived and forced onto the narrative as if they added it the moment they thought of using Joko's death to resurrect Aurene (which they admitted they didn't think about how to bring her back until after they began writing Episode 6) as a "brilliant foreshadowing" moment.

This said, Ogden never says or even implies the three signs came from Glint:

Ogden Stonehealer: That's all three signs. I'm due for a visit...
<Character name>: Ogden. It's good to—
Ogden Stonehealer: About time you showed up. We're going to Thunderhead Keep.
Caithe: We are?
Ogden Stonehealer: To Glint's Dragonsblood Forge. How else are we gonna kill Kralkatorrik?
<Character name>: A new Dragonsblood Spear...
Caithe: You lost the first one?
Ogden Stonehealer: Not now. For Aurene to destroy the Crystal Dragon, scion and champion must first prove themselves.
Ogden Stonehealer: There's an extension of Glint's Lair protected in the Mists—a refuge for her scion. From there you can enter her trials.
Caithe: Oh, good—more trials. Why didn't you mention any of this before?
Ogden Stonehealer: We were waiting for the signs: Glint's egg hatching, the lich's death...
Ogden Stonehealer: And the sands of Glint's hourglass have begun to glow. Her scion's already in the refuge.
Ogden Stonehealer: Go to Aurene. Complete the trials. I'll get the word out and meet you at Thunderhead Keep with the Pact.

So for all we know, the signs came from Vlast, whom we know Ogden was aware of due to LWS2, and Vlast was a crystal dragon so he should have had prophetic visions but we never once get a moment of it shown, and he was aligned with fighting Kralkatorrik far more than "Saneatorrik".

The lack of a source for the "three signs" in the end upholds the notion that Glint couldn't see past her death, until she had died.

Edited by Konig Des Todes.2086
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