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Raid bug and QoL suggestion compilation.


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Posted (edited)

With the announcement of a new Raid, I think this is the perfect time to look back on our existing raids and fix all the bugs in them and add some extra polish. To help with this I've compiled a list that includes bugs, quality of life changes and other suggestions.

[Bug] - A clear bug with little room for interpretation that should be fixed.
[QoL] - A quality of life suggestion, something that would improve the readability or enjoyment of the encounter or the flow of the raid.
[?] - A suggestion that could go either way. It potentially changes how the encounter is played..

General:

  • [QoL] Players should be able to open raid instances at any checkpoint, and not just at the state their account is at this week.
  • [?] Reconsider renaming Strikes to Raids. They are really not that different and all vary in difficulty a lot. I know people that do Strikes but don't want to do Raids and people that do Raids and don't want to do Strikes. As long as you find a good way to inform people about the difficulty of the encounter and make everything accessible from the Aerodrome you'd gain a lot by smashing these two groups together.
  • [Bug] Encounters can fail even though there are still people alive: Basically, for some reason, the game can think that there are only 9, 8 or less people in the fight and the fight will end in failure when there are still 1, 2 etc. people alive. This also happens in strikes.
  • [QoL] Emboldened enable/disable dialogue: The voting timer should be drastically reduced.
  • [QoL] If you activate a CM when emboldened is on and later want to activate Emboldened for the rest of the wing, you first have to disable emboldened at the mote and then enable it. It should be properly switched to disabled when activating a CM.
  • [QoL] Wings 1-4 don't allow mounts (debatable if they should or not) and don't allow novelties like chairs to be used, unlike wings 5-7.
  • [?] White Mantle Portal Device should be usable in raids. It's gotten from raids and used extensively in fractals. It feels really weird that it's not usable in raids.
  • [Bug] Foolproof phase transitions, so that if a bug happens again that allows players to heal enemies the encounters don't bug out.
  • [QoL] Raid Tokens are consumed slowly and don't have Consume All. I understand that this is because it goes from a character to a guild database, and that's slow, but it would be really, really nice if this could be improved.
  • [QoL] Raid Training Instance is now party only. It's good that people don't have to make a squad to enter it, but there should also be a squad version available.

1, Spirit Vale:
This wing has a lot of overlong and slow tutorializing that should be cut down.

Coloured Guardians

  • [QoL] They should have lower HP by like 25/33%. Maybe even 50%.

Vale Guardian

  • [Bug] The teleport range of "blues" is ever so slightly larger then the yellow border warning effect so you can think you're safe and you get ported.
  • [?] It's common to ignore the "green". Arguably the fight should be adjusted so that the green doesn't wipe, but punishes ignoring it in some form.

Spirit Woods
Oh boy... This thing... When there are people that play VG and Spirit Woods on an alt just to skip their raid group past it you know there's a problem.

  • [QoL] 21 Rifts should be like 7 rifts. Maybe less. Maybe open 2 at once after 2 or 3 singles. Maybe put a champ that needs to be killed to end the encounter instead of closing all the rifts and the rifts are just something you have to do to not die while doing it? Maybe have the first room just be like 5 rifts tops and put some rifts in the second room? There are plenty of ways to rework this encounter, and you really need to do something drastic.
  • [QoL] Add a checkpoint to near the balcony before the Spirit Race after opening the gate so anyone that's reviving doesn't have to run all the way from the Vale Guardian arena.

I think the actual Spirit Race and the buttons go by very fast and don't really need a change.

Gorseval the Multifarious

  • [?] Due to power creep and people getting better, pretty much every single group now skips the mechanic of destroying the wall and using updrafts to avoid the attack. Arguably, the fight should be reworked so that this mechanic is not skippable.

Sabetha the Saboteur

  • [Bug] When a person gets launched to a cannon, other players sometimes don't see that. They just see the person standing there on the edge of the platform like nothing happened causing confusion.
  • [Bug] A currently active Flamewall doesn't disappear when Sabetha dies.

2, Salvation Pass:

Slothasor

  • [?][Bug?] Before the fight, the player character goes "Was that supposed to happen?" and "Find an exit. And try not to annoy that monstrosity." I might be wrong here, but these lines always confused me and seemed like the end result of changes in development. It's as if there's some cave in that blocks our way out, but that only happens after the fight starts. It would be nice if those lines were recoded or new, more fitting lines were recorded next time the voice actors are available.
  • [?][QoL] People sometimes die after the fight ends due to condies, so it would be nice if Slothasors death cleansed some condies.

Bandit Trio

  • [?] The partoling bandits outside the fort should run inside when the fight starts and the gates open.
  • [Bug] It's possible to push mobs into the cage where they can be unable to be damaged, but they are still attacking the cage.
  • [QoL] The Environmentaly Friendly achievement fails if anyone opens a cage (fine) or picks up a beehive or barrel. I think it should not fail on pickup, but upon using a beehive or barrel.

Matthias Gabrel

  • [?] A very annoying, though pretty rare quirk of this fight is when one person gets "bullied" by getting several mechanics in a row. It might be a good idea to give a small grace period so that no one person can be targeted by 2 mechanics in a row.

3, Stronghold of the Faithful:

Siege the Stronghold

  • [Bug] If someone talks to Glenna to start the encounter, but everyone gg's before she finishes talking, the encounter can start with everyone dead and able to revive. If you do this then you can do the encounter without being forced to stay in combat.
  • [Bug] If the person who's supposed to reply to Glenna at the start of the instance /gg's, the instance can softlock.
  • [Bug] The achievement eligibility icons for "I Can Outrun A...Warg", "Love Is Bunny" and "Mine Control" are present even for people that already did those achievements. Additionally, the "Mine Control" effect often doesn't go away even after the requirements have been failed.
  • [Bug] The Rabbit (for the Love Is Bunny achievement) doesn't reset properly after a failed attempt.
  • [Bug] After McLeod the Silent spawn, players that were far enough away from his spawn point (usually the "Back Warg" player) will regain their ability to resurrect people, even though they are still in combat.
  • [QoL] Would be nice if a one-way portal opened somewhere near the "Back Warg" spawn so players could get to the boss fight easier.
  • [Bug] Doing enough burst damage to McLeod the Silent can skip one of his 3 phase transitions.
  • [Bug] After McLeod spawns, Glenna can no longer be attacked by White Mantle Seekers, but her indicator still changes to a fear icon. Either she should still be in danger of being attacked, or her Surveilled effect should go away.

Keep Construct

  • [Bug] Since this was the first "CM", it's coded differently then others and should be standardized. Specifically, the state of the CM should persist between wipes and no be reset, and there should be a yellow notification to everyone that it has been enabled or disabled.
  • [?] Very high dps groups can do enough damage to skip having to do the Orb Pushing phase. Similarly to Gorseval, it should arguably not be a skippable mechanic.

Twisted Castle

  • [Bug] The Statues sometimes move even when looking at them.
  • [?] There are two prominent "skips" to avoid parts of TC by launching themselves (The "druid skip") and by jumping down on the top of the door and taking fall damage. Arguably these skips could be patched out.

Xera

  • [?] The fact that the "laylines" during this encounter are just weird reskinned updrafts is kind of awkward, and it sucks loosing players to it because the next platform has a wall and the updraft didn't picking them up. I would like a redo of these "laylines" into actual laylines.

 

4, Bastion of the Penitent:

Cairn the Indomitable

  • [Bug] If someone turns on the CM, the debuff forcing you to use the Special Action Key starts ticking when they land on the platform instead of when the fight starts.

Mursaat Overseer

  • [Bug] Sometimes the fight doesn't reset properly after a wipe. The boss will be standing in the centre pulsing a high damage attack on the arena and can still be damaged. Killing the boss in this state softlocks the instance, but picking up all the Special Action Keys starts the fight properly without reseting MO's HP. This can lead to an easy kill.

Samarog

  • [Bug] Sometimes, usually after killing Guldhem but before killing Rigom, Samarog can walk out of his alcove and start attacking, still invulnerable and with his big yellow bubble.
  • [Bug] Samarog sometimes is "late" on his CC phases. He should interrupt his current attack and do Brutalize, but sometimes he first finishes his current attack and then does Brutalize, and sometimes he interrupts his attack to do another attack and then Brutalize. This is bad cause a late CC puts a lot more pressure on the next CC phase when a lot of skills will still be on cooldown.

5, Hall of Chains:

River of Souls

  • [?] The most common tactic is to send most people ahead and leave just a few escorting Desmina. Should this be patched by making the road do more and more damage or is it a fine tactic?

Broken King

  • [Bug] The Glaciate effect after getting 4 stacks of Frozen Wind doesn't do damage.
  • [Bug] After taking too many Frozen Wind stacks, often your mounts will T-pose and be unable to move, only jump. You need to leave the instance for this bug to fix itself.
  • [Bug] Taking the 4 Frozen Wind stack when in Specter Shroud or Harbringer Shroud will not freeze you.

Dhuum

  • [Bug] When you're in Specter Shroud or Harbringer Shroud and want to "take a green", you will not be picked up. (The Reaper will not die either)
  • [Bug] When the 10% HP phase starts, if you're in Specter Shroud or Harbringer Shroud you will not be picked up and will also not receive the damaging debuff. After the fight ends you will receive the damage debuff they avoided, causing them to die repeatedly until they leave the instance.
  • [Bug] If the tank "goes up", Dhuum often still follows them and walks all around the arena, or he randomly turns around to attack other players.
  • [Bug] The orb hitboxes in the air are super bad and don't align with the model.
  • [Bug] The Enforcer and Messenger that spawn on the north side of the room at the start of the fight swap their spawn positions at random.

6, Mythwright Gambit:

Twin Largos

  • [QoL] Unlike the previous dialog in the wing, the one before Twin Largos can't be skipped, but it would be really nice if it was.
  • [Bug] Kenut may occasionally spawn double the amount of waterspouts after teleporting to her third or final platform.
  • [Bug] Either one of the twins may occasionally bug out at 25%, being invulnerable and not moving to the next platform. This bug occurs when it coincides with a CC bar. The platform they are on continues to sink during this time, so it becomes near impossible to kill them before the platform sinks entirely under the water.

Qadim

  • [Bug] Qadim doesn't trigger ranger traps (maybe some other enemy triggered things like marks too?) so they end up destroying the lamp when it spawns.
  • [Bug] Greater Magma Elemental's attacks don't stop when it dies. So it starts a swing, you see a circle on the ground, you kill the elemental before it finishes the swing and the attack still hits you and knocks you back.
  • [Bug] The Legendary Ice Elemental (mob you free from the second lamp) is scaled too small and uses the incorrect model.

7, The Key of Ahdashim:

  • [Bug] Activating any CM completely removed the Emboldened Mote from the instance, so Emboldened can't be re-enabled.

Gates of Ahdashim

  • [QoL] This is the other encounter that's highly disliked. Please make the capture points capture quicker, lower enemy health a little bit, make the NPCs move a bit faster and the last part of the defence event start a bit sooner.
  • [QoL] Please allow us to skip the dialog that happens after opening the gate, or have a way to make them open the gates to the Cardinals early.

Cardinal Adina

  • [Bug] Sometimes a single pillar can protect more then 2 people.

Cardinal Sabir

  • [Bug] Before the patch that fixed the bug that allowed you to stop mechanics by portaling (I think it was the May 10, 2022 patch), every single one of Sabir's attacks had a specific voice line that would play. After the patch, Sabir, while on the 3rd and last platform, sometimes says voice lines without using an attack and sometimes does attacks without voice lines.

Qadim the Peerless

  • [QoL] Please allow us to skip the dialog after killing the second Cardinal.
  • [Bug] If you /gg at the wrong time in an attempt to skip the dialog after killing the second Cardinal, you can softlock the instance, or, more commonly, end up waiting in silence since the voices and text stops plaing, but the character still go through their animations normally.
  • [Bug] The Force of Havoc's "road" becomes invisible soon after spawning, only reappearing briefly for its despawn animation. Video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVkfHArQLxc
  • [Bug] When Qadim destroys everyone's Special Action Key at the start of the last phase, the person that's "up" during the CM can also have their SAK destroyed if the energy is collected very fast. The person cannot do their mechanic and has to /gg or everyone will die.
  • [Bug] Ever since the August 22, 2023 patch that added the round indicator around you for Toxic Sickness (Fractal Instability), most round indicators are bugged and start their animations at random times. This includes the Toxic Sickness indicator, but also Qadim's indicator at the start of the fight.
  • [Bug] Qadim can sometimes fire his pushback shockwave after destroying the pylon too early. Sadly it seems random, but it's deadly on CM cause it takes you by surprise, likely before everyone is even grouped up, and can not only push you into a tornado, but even if you're lucky it pushes you out of the safe zone and you die anyway.
  • [Bug] If the group GG's when one person is "up" during Qadim's CM mechanic after he destroys the Pylons, the hidden timer that kills everyone if they fail to get the person down can stay active and will kill everyone even if the fight already reset.
  • [?] I always felt that the "triple lightning" damage hit strikes too soon, before the indicator is completely filled up, but maybe that's just me?
Edited by Poki.8235
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Nothing wrong with the Bug reports here, it's a great list. But going through the rest, I have to say I disagree with nearly every other item on the list.

Example: mounts in raids (thanks we'll just skip the Spirit Run Stuff? This breaks many many encounters), White Mantle Portal Device (will just break nearly every encounter), reducing HP on colored guardians is a completely unnecessary nerf, Gorseval could use a HP buff but do NOT make it invul to force updrafts (Updraft is forced downtime, forced Downtime is about as fun as escorting Glenna to the Gate). The QoL on Slothasor: idk why it would cleanse you? It is also not really QoL, because the correct move is to /gg after Slothasor has died in order to speed up the next section of the Wing by 30+ seconds.

The patroling bandits outside are supposed to guard the fort and it's a good thing they make mortars harder to play if you don't go and kill them, on McLeod *all* players regain the ability to revive people, not just those far enough away - it's to make sure you can still manage the boss fight and don't have to restart the encounter because one too many died to mines (remember you can get locked out if you randomly roll too many people with white or red color if you are less than 6). So this is a good thing, not something that needs fixing - it's quite possibly deliberate.

The "Back Warg" is a very silly tactic nobody should be using. If you are playing Back Warg still, then you can go join your squad using a ley line after the third tower has been captured and you killed the third warg. Going afk at the tent even when no more Wargs are spawning should not be encouraged, the game is trying to tell you that you are doing something wrong.

Keep Construct DPS check is a skill check, doing mid strat with 0 orbs is actually hard - if your group has spent a lot of time practicing rotations, why would you force them to play 20 seconds of downtime mechanics (see Gorseval)? Seems pointless to punish groups for being good at the game?

Twisted Castle leaps make it interesting. The common pug strat leaps are something neat to learn, and makes it definitely more entertaining than mind-numbingly boring zerging. Let players show their mastery of their characters and that they can do precise movement. The castle doesn't actually get easier this way.

If you redid the Leylines on Xera into actual Leylines, it would be much more difficult, not only could you then only glide one way and not go back to support others, but you could also not get out of them and just be smashed into the wall, especially if you are too low because your glider opened slightly late (or, you know, if a wall is in front of you). Leylines cannot easily be exited with the glider open. So, all you'd achieve here is have people actually crash into the walls because the leyline would simply lead them there.

The Desmina strat you talk about is also the slowest possible way to complete the River, it's fine to leave it in as a reliable noob strat, since Escorts are not very fun to wipe to. 

Enforcer / Messenger spawns swapping positions does not actually matter, nor is it a bug?

NPCs movement speed on Gate has basically no effect on the completion time of it, as you can already capture the next circle while they are talking.

I feel like many of your QoL / ? ideas punish groups for being good at completing the raids, i.e. "nah, you're playing raids wrong! Do it one minute slower please!" Anet fixing bugs would be great, but we can do without most of those QoL ideas. I'm mainly a fan of making more dialogues skippable.

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I don't see how anything I listed as a QoL change is bad. The ones I marked with a ? are debatable, for sure. Some people might see phase skipping as something that's unintended and should be fixed, some might see it as reward for skilled play and make the encounters more interesting.

IDK why you're saying mounts would break encounters since they're not usable in encounters. And WMPD is funcionally identical to Mesmer portals, so do you want to ban mesmers so they don't break encounters too? I really don't understand your objections there.

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I think some of the changes in the earlier wings to bring back some currently "skipped" mechanics (such as vg greens and gorseval updrafts) would be better if combined with a new challenge mote for those fights

It could be an easy cm like keep construct, eg. gorseval just significantly increases his hp so you are forced into the updrafts, and for vg you can make the green a oneshot so you are forced into doign the mechanics rather than outhealing it.

Pair the increase in difficulty/effort iwth an increase in rewards, and leave it optional for the new players?

Edited by Aethelwyna.7269
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