Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Customer View: Biggest problem with WvW is lack of team overlay


Recommended Posts

I think all of us have faced problem where we try to log in and play WvW, but there is just not much friendly activity going on. We might jump through hoops like checking for commander tags, asking chat, only logging in when there is queue or only playing when there are people on discords, but none of these actually meet the needs of us as customers: Guaranteed way to check for friendly ongoing activity at time we want to log in. While people might perceive this as population problem, it is more of a communication systems problem, as when checking for groups is fast enough, it doesn't waste your time.

Where WvW differs from PvE is that you often need more specific type of group to complete certain activity and solo gaming isn't as much of a similar experience. While we could ask people or hop through all borderlands, but this is time consuming, impractical and people might not be in state of mind to communicate. What we need is a team overlay that presents ongoing teams regardless of map we are in. This way we as customers can check for action or build desired numbers rapidly in realtime.

Now there are many ways to implement this and following are list of possible solutions:

  1. Minimum viable product: Integrate with chat function. Like objectives flipping can be setup to be visible in chat, we could have open tag groups present in WvW sent in chat upon joining WvW, them joining your map, or you joining their map. Non-intrusive solution that can be turned off and fits WvW. PvE has its lfg function, but is ill suited for WvW as it is built around instances and doesn't support real time messaging. This is what businesses would call minimum viable product: It solves the problem and doesn't take much effort to implement. To prevent abuse, the system could only message include open squads with more than 5 players in WvW.
  2. Separate overlay: Now if WvW team has the resources, building separate overlay that can be minimized would obviously be better as it would allow better visible UI and present lot of relevant information for players. This information would be such as commander name, squad numbers, current map and intended activity. Customers could rearrange it by player numbers or activity for convenience and commanders could post themselves anytime they need numbers. Separate overlay would allow reaching larger userbase as smaller groups and even closed/invisible squads to use it to find their desired amount of players.
  3. Other solutions: Now of course one can innovate their own solution to the problem. It could take form of adding squad functions (Global chat announcements on timer?), tackling source of problem (WvW population, separate VoiP servers) or even improving LFG function used in PvE to be visible in realtime.

So there are plenty of solutions to solve one of the biggest inconvenience for WvW players. To find the suitable one without investing too much in it, developers would have to gather customer feedback and information through development process described in books such as Four steps to epiphany by Steve Blank or The innovators method by Nathan Furr.  It isn't fun for everyone having to have to spend time in queue or hopping maps to actually find out if there is anything going on. By solving this problem, we should see visible improvement for everyone as WvW playerbase will grow, commanders will setup squads faster and there will be more enemy/ally groups to work against/with. Hopefully this is a problem that WvW team will tackle.

  • Like 5
  • Confused 3
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Riba.3271 said:

people might not be in state of mind to communicate

… I don’t even want to know what that’s supposed to mean.

Just filling the chat is a bad idea. The chat is - unsurprisingly - used to chat. It’s bad enough as it is when EBG cries for help with a 40+ queue.

if Anet want to visually present where commanders are, the WvW menu has all the space that’s needed. Instead of the map button being blank, on the actual button (or next to it) it could dynamically show the 3 largest commanders per border with the same hover over description that we got in the minimap as well as x/50.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Dawdler.8521 said:

If Anet want to visually present where commanders are, the WvW menu has all the space that’s needed. Instead of the map button being blank, on the actual button (or next to it) it could dynamically show the 3 largest commanders per border with the same hover over description that we got in the minimap as well as x/50.

This is a great solution in right direction too. It does seem like it needs some work on how to let commanders choose to enlist/delist. Maybe a button in squad window should suffice... Or should only open squads with no exceptions be included? Could this be expanded to PvE overflows and how would it be represented there?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Riba.3271 said:

I think all of us have faced problem where we try to log in and play WvW, but there is just not much friendly activity going on.

No. I usually log in, join a map without queue, take a look at the map, check for dots, objectives under attack or the next thing to claim and just go there. 

If I'm looking for bigger action I do the same with a focus on orange swords, tags and keeping an eye on chat - assaults on keeps are usually scouted. Multiple guildies on the same map also indicates action there. 

I think the go-to solutions to find out where to find action are the map and chat. And they work fine for me.

 

2 hours ago, Riba.3271 said:

[...] and people might not be in state of mind to communicate

I get that, but are those the same moments you want to join a large group of players in a PvP game mode?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would be great to be able to post squads on LFG. It's such a pivotal part of the PVE game now. It would improve visibility no end, hopefully getting more players into WvW.

Would be easier to get players to join smaller squads/roaming groups, which is really hard to organize. Or to promote 'begginer friendly' squads (which many communities are happy to do).

I'm sure there are technical challenges to that, but that's a dev's job.

 

Ofc, as an experienced player I can read the map and quickly tell if there's anything going on, but it's utterly unreasonable to expect a newer player to do that. I believe that filling chat with 'flipped' messages would be no help at all, would just be spam which gets ignored.

  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, adammantium.8031 said:

It would be great to be able to post squads on LFG. It's such a pivotal part of the PVE game now. It would improve visibility no end, hopefully getting more players into WvW.

Would be easier to get players to join smaller squads/roaming groups, which is really hard to organize. Or to promote 'begginer friendly' squads (which many communities are happy to do).

I'm sure there are technical challenges to that, but that's a dev's job.

 

Ofc, as an experienced player I can read the map and quickly tell if there's anything going on, but it's utterly unreasonable to expect a newer player to do that. I believe that filling chat with 'flipped' messages would be no help at all, would just be spam which gets ignored.

… WvW has its own LFG category and it’s integrated with the commander feature specifically for WvW.

Its just that absolutely no one use this function.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, adammantium.8031 said:

 

Ofc, as an experienced player I can read the map and quickly tell if there's anything going on, but it's utterly unreasonable to expect a newer player to do that. I believe that filling chat with 'flipped' messages would be no help at all, would just be spam which gets ignored.

To be clear, when I referred to messages of objectives getting captured, I ment the existing function where if server captures anything, there is chat message about it. You probably have had the messages turned off so long that you don't remember them.

Point was, if you don't want to see the messages of squad forming on or joining map, you can just turn them off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
On 6/7/2024 at 11:27 PM, Grave.5683 said:

Someone didn't take into account the spying and griefing potential of his suggestion.

You can always delist your squad if you are worried about spies or griefers. And I actually did take them into account, but it seemed irrelevant as if it helps spies noticeable amount, it helps newer players and commanders build up a group massively. It is actually fact that as long as WvW remains reliant on Discord to provide visibility about ongoing activity to people in PvE, it makes spying even easier. You don't even need to be logged in or be on same server to spy right now.

Now there are already plenty of ways to find squads such as commander tags, which has weakness of not being visible crossmaps or chat which has problems of not being realtime or LFG function that is way too many clicks away compared to system that @Dawdler.8521recommended: One that uses WvW menu to give you relevant information. After all, why does EotM take half the space of WvW menu when no one uses it? Save us all time and give us proper advertisement channels with visibility and realtime support. It isn't intended just for large squads either, as you can utilize the system for much smaller support.

Edited by Riba.3271
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I'll admit... I like the idea of an objectives captured log... Captures are already broadcast across the entire map, but a log showing which teams captured which objectives would be nice. (EDIT: to show how active the maps are in WvW, and should be categorized by map.) It could go back 30 minutes and have its own tab in the WvW UI window. (This would be more beneficial than a team UI, I think, because the WvW UI is visible outside of WvW, whereas I presume that Anet would only allow team UI to be visible in WvW, like team chat.)

As for showing active commander rosters. I don't know how I feel about it because of spying. There are still plenty of commanders who run hidden private tags due to spying and/ or toxicity and/ or not wanting to deal with random players' or their random builds. If the "currently active commanders" list does not show hidden tags, I'd be totally in support of it. (I would be okay with the UI saying that there ARE hidden tags, just not how many, nor any other info about them) (EDIT: this should also be in the WvW UI to be visible outside of WvW.)

Also, squad overlay could use a little love, such as showing party view for subsquad members while also showing grid view for the rest of the squad would be awesome. (A commander I run with, recently mentioned this). Currently,  if you choose party view while in a squad, you only see members of your subsquad in the UI, and not the rest of the squad. Come to think of it, that's the reason I never use party view while in a squad...

Edited by Forgotten Legend.9281
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/8/2024 at 1:14 PM, Dawdler.8521 said:

… WvW has its own LFG category and it’s integrated with the commander feature specifically for WvW.

Its just that absolutely no one use this function.

LOL - shows how much I know. Thanks for the correction. I assume it's not server specific, making it particularly meaningless (i.e. a Fort Ranik player would see someone from Whiteside Ridge forming a squad).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/7/2024 at 3:26 PM, Riba.3271 said:

I think all of us have faced problem where we try to log in and play WvW, but there is just not much friendly activity going on

Yes, I mainly experience this when an enemy zerg is conquering our towers/camps/keeps on all maps and there is practically no one on my team there to defend. And when I experience this on a full map with a queue, there seem to be several (guild) groups with hidden tags on the map. But you only see them when you run into them.

 

On 6/7/2024 at 3:26 PM, Riba.3271 said:

So there are plenty of solutions to solve one of the biggest inconvenience for WvW players.

I don't know what the "biggest inconvenience" is for WvW players. For me it's the different number of players in the teams (which also changes throughout the day). For others it seems to be playing with other players ("randoms") (which is probably why they use a hidden tag).

I always like UI improvements. However, I don't see your current suggestions as an improvement to the problems.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...