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Why didn't the elder dragons just wipe out cities or use their minions like the Shatterer, the claw or tequatl to cause chaos throughout the entire world?


XCLASSGAMING.9830

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So, i have been wondering this for alittle while (if i completely missed the reason please do point it out to me) but...why didn't kralkatorrik just fly over Divinitys reach, lions arch, the grove etc and be done with it? and why didnt the other elder dragons just send in barrages of their own dragon minions like the shatter or the claw of jormag, like mordermoth did, sending in its plant dragon to desimate tyria and consume the magic?

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Well the one Sylvari encounter in the opener mission actually takes place in the Dream, which fits Mordy's domain of the mind thing. The other appearances are consistent with the already-existing connection of Sylvari being created as its minions so of course the Grove would be easy to access, and the edge of the Silverwastes can be viewed as the edge of its immediate area of influence so that tracks, too.

Maybe they hadn't had their coffee yet and were still stumbling around the house in bathrobe and slippers. 😆

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32 minutes ago, XCLASSGAMING.9830 said:

why didn't kralkatorrik just fly over Divinitys reach, lions arch, the grove etc and be done with it?

Why would he want to fly over those places of absolutely no concern of him? The purpose is to consume the magic, not brand arbitrary places. Also notice that in general EDs tend to not move without the need to do it. Kralk movement after awakening was to go after champion that betrayed him, Zhaitan never left Orr, and only engaged pact airships when left no other option, primordus have moved to position himself in better place to consume magic leftovers from zhaitan death, after PoF Kralk has moved deeper into elona to a more secure place to recover from Balthazar fight, and then moved into the mists to actively consume them.

That being said Mordremoth tendrils did go after waypoints all around tyria - primarily because their magical emissions were attracting said tendrils.

38 minutes ago, XCLASSGAMING.9830 said:

why didnt the other elder dragons just send in barrages of their own dragon minions like the shatter or the claw of jormag, like mordermoth did, sending in its plant dragon to desimate tyria and consume the magic?

Zhaitan was very aggressive in sending out his risen to attack living, find, and collect magical artifacts. Primordus and Jormag also were sending out their minions to attack, former forcing underground races to the surface, latter forcing north dwellers south. Soo-won didn't send out minions to attack apparently, but something in the deep awakened after her departure, that forced some of the deep sea dweller closer to the shores. Kralkatorrik would be the main anomaly here that despite creating brand and branded, after initial outburst of fresh branded, they mostly focused on patrolling the brand instead of outward expansion.

On an important note: prior to Balthazar's death, none of ED had means of mist travel, so their minions were limited by where they could physically get to. Destroyers had to traverse depths of tyria to the surface, icebrood had to get north, etc.

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1 hour ago, XCLASSGAMING.9830 said:

Why didn't the elder dragons just wipe out cities or use their minions like the Shatterer, the claw or tequatl to cause chaos throughout the entire world?

Because elder dragons making speeches about conquering the world and domination was thought up by people that came in later with big ideas, not the original concept.

Yet pulling another Lion's Arch would just be way too expensive, so...

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1 hour ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Because elder dragons making speeches about conquering the world and domination was thought up by people that came in later with big ideas, not the original concept.

Yet pulling another Lion's Arch would just be way too expensive, so...

Or it's almost like different Dragons have entirely different goals and the only one actually wanting to cover the world in their influence was Jormag. 

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13 minutes ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

the only one actually wanting to cover the world in their influence was Jormag.

 

Mordremoth: I am everywhere. I am all.

Mordremoth: I am the only possible victor.

Mordremoth: I am power itself. I am life itself. To deny me is to embrace oblivion.

Mordremoth: You will all be consumed.

 

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24 minutes ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

 

Mordremoth: I am everywhere. I am all.

Mordremoth: I am the only possible victor.

Mordremoth: I am power itself. I am life itself. To deny me is to embrace oblivion.

Mordremoth: You will all be consumed.

 

Mordemoth wanted to continue to devour magic.

Jormag was actually trying to get people to willingly align with them during the icebrood saga. Their whispers were for people to willingly give in and join.

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4 hours ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

 

Mordremoth: I am everywhere. I am all.

Mordremoth: I am the only possible victor.

Mordremoth: I am power itself. I am life itself. To deny me is to embrace oblivion.

Mordremoth: You will all be consumed.

 

Mordy just had overinflated sense of own importance on how life can exist on tyria, to the point where he thought that without him there is no plantlife ;)

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10 hours ago, XCLASSGAMING.9830 said:

So, i have been wondering this for alittle while (if i completely missed the reason please do point it out to me) but...why didn't kralkatorrik just fly over Divinitys reach, lions arch, the grove etc and be done with it? and why didnt the other elder dragons just send in barrages of their own dragon minions like the shatter or the claw of jormag, like mordermoth did, sending in its plant dragon to desimate tyria and consume the magic?

The short answer is: they don't want to.

The long answer is: The goal of the Elder Dragons isn't to just simply wipe out or corrupt the living - with the exception of Primordus and Kralkatorrik (more on that in a bit) - but they each show to have their own goals and ambitions. To further these goals, the Elder Dragons need one vital thing: more magic. Going around flying and attacking cities is counter productive to this concept, as the best way to gather magic is to sit on a ley-line nexus and soak it up while minions go out and obtain more in other means.

Additionally, the Elder Dragons are rivals to each other, and making territory to defend is far more reasonable than going around attacking mortals, which puts them in danger both to the mortals and the other Elder Dragons.

This is why, despite spreading his vines and attacking magical artifacts and hotspots for their magic, Mordremoth left the major cities alone when he woke up - his goal wasn't to destroy civilization, but to mark a defensive territory from the other Elder Dragons, gain magic, and further his long-term goals which seem to be the sustaining life force of Tyrians (by shoving them into trees and making clones that depend on his existence as he "becomes the world").

Kralkatorrik and Primordus are a tad bit different as unlike Jormag, Mordremoth, and Zhaitan, those two seem to hold the goal of kill-everyone-else (or consume, corrupt or destroy all the things in Kralk's case). Primordus couldn't simply attack cities because until very recently, the Stone Dwarves were holding him and his army at bay - he also needed magic to do that, so after clearing out the underground and marking his territory, he sat to consume magic in preparation for attacking the other Elder Dragons and the surface cities. This is also why Primord

us' first action on waking up in IBS, after getting sufficient magic, is attacking towns and cities that are adjacent to ley-lines.

Kralkatorrik on the other hand, was injured and almost killed (albeit the "almost killed" came from a one-shot attempt) just after waking up. And while Kralkatorrik was recovering from that for the next decade, Vlast and the Forgotten were keeping him at bay.

7 hours ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Mordremoth: I am everywhere. I am all.

Mordremoth: I am the only possible victor.

Mordremoth: I am power itself. I am life itself. To deny me is to embrace oblivion.

Mordremoth: You will all be consumed.

Funnily enough, that doesn't say that Mordremoth's interests were, as you said...

8 hours ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

elder dragons making speeches about conquering the world and domination

Instead those lines are told to people who are trying to kill him after making their way through his defenses.

And it's only a tiny portion of his personality, tbh.

7 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Mordemoth wanted to continue to devour magic.

I disagree. Magic to the Elder Dragon seems to be more of a means to an end than an end with a means.

Though the only line from Mordremoth that Dean quoted holds value to what Mordremoth wanted ("I am power itself. I am life itself. To deny me is to embrace oblivion." - a critical line to Mordremoth given the Dragonvoid copying Mordremoth says the same in other words "You are a part of me, or you are nothing.")

But there is other evidence about Mordremoth's goals out there. In Season 2, the Aspect Masters mention things Aerin was talking to himself about, including destroying the world. But we see Mordremoth replacing plantlife in his method of corruption, spreading across the world and claiming to be the world. In the launch trailer, Mordremoth says "it is time to come home" to the sylvari, treating himself again as the sustaining nurture of others.

Mordremoth is constantly swapping between "This world is mine" and "I am the world", constantly talking about how necessary he is for others to live - and I doubt that was meant to be about The All's balance - etc. etc.

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16 hours ago, Trejgon.9367 said:

Kralkatorrik would be the main anomaly here that despite creating brand and branded, after initial outburst of fresh branded, they mostly focused on patrolling the brand instead of outward expansion.

 

Considering what we learned about Kralkatorrik having dual personality disorder due to his corruption by the magic he consumed, I am guessing these days that his original personality did his best to keep his corrupt personality from having his minion expand beyond the branded areas. Originally I theorized that Kralkatorrik could have been more single minded to a point he did not care about the civilizations and just moved with what he feels like due to his large size but since we know now he has dual personality, it probably was a result of him doing his best to restrict the corrupt personality's actions with the minions.

Edited by EdwinLi.1284
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On 6/13/2024 at 7:23 AM, EdwinLi.1284 said:

Considering what we learned about Kralkatorrik having dual personality disorder due to his corruption by the magic he consumed, I am guessing these days that his original personality did his best to keep his corrupt personality from having his minion expand beyond the branded areas. Originally I theorized that Kralkatorrik could have been more single minded to a point he did not care about the civilizations and just moved with what he feels like due to his large size but since we know now he has dual personality, it probably was a result of him doing his best to restrict the corrupt personality's actions with the minions.

From personal experience, being in extrem pain can make you very aggressive. Even if you would normally be a very kind person. 

Which is happening to kralk. 

I would not call that a dual personality. 

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11 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

From personal experience, being in extrem pain can make you very aggressive. Even if you would normally be a very kind person. 

Which is happening to kralk. 

I would not call that a dual personality. 

To use RL as a sad example. Injured stray cats and dogs will often snap and try to defend themselves against people trying to help them because the pain isn't letting them think straight.

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15 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

From personal experience, being in extrem pain can make you very aggressive. Even if you would normally be a very kind person. 

Which is happening to kralk. 

I would not call that a dual personality. 

Yes but he was still switching between two different personalities through the final battle being his normal original personality and the one created by Madness.. The Madness Personality only noticed where the Commander and Aurene was once they harmed the body.

The original personality probably manage to remain in control for a while and still manage to keep control of some aspects of his own actions even when the Madness personality eventually took over. 

Of course how long this took is unknown since Soo-Won never noticed until it was a bit too late in the past before the Elder Dragon cycle began.

Makes me wonder how the other Elder Dragons handle their Madness Personality since Kralkatorrik manage to atleast preserve his own but lost control of his body to the Madness personality. Not to mention if they were aware of it as it began progressing in their minds.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/12/2024 at 3:28 PM, XCLASSGAMING.9830 said:

So, i have been wondering this for alittle while (if i completely missed the reason please do point it out to me) but...why didn't kralkatorrik just fly over Divinitys reach, lions arch, the grove etc and be done with it? and why didnt the other elder dragons just send in barrages of their own dragon minions like the shatter or the claw of jormag, like mordermoth did, sending in its plant dragon to desimate tyria and consume the magic?

Primordus has destroyed the underground city of asura! Exactly!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Movement costs energy. The bigger the organism, the more energy needed.

The elder dragons try to consume and keep as much energy (magic) as possible. So they only move when absolutely necessary.

Since burning DR into the ground would not help with consuming magic and costs a lot - why do it?

Since burning the Black Citadel into the ground would not help consuming magic and costs a lot - why do it?

 

Zhaitan had to be forced out of hiding before he started moving around. And he was rather small. Kralkatorik moved, because Glint/DE forced him to. Primordus and Jormag moved because we made them to. Mordremoth did not move at all until we stood right in front of his face. 

But when left alone, elder dragons did not move at all if they could get away with it. 

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