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When is the failed Mechanical Genius effect being removed?


Stalima.5490

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I'm sitting here playing condi rifle and the mech constantly loses mechanical genius because of needing to weave out of melee range of targets.

This effect simply doesn't work for engineer which is primarily a ranged profession so effectively NEEDS to be out of range of it's mech in order to play properly half the time.

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Mechanist's weapon is the mace. Due to that alone, needing to be in melee a lot should not be surprising.

But, if I remember correctly, you can trait your robot to be ranged. So just do that, if you don't like being in melee.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Mechanist's weapon is the mace. Due to that alone, needing to be in melee a lot should not be surprising.

But, if I remember correctly, you can trait your robot to be ranged. So just do that, if you don't like being in melee.

yes and then what is the point in mechanical genius in that case? just to frustrate people?

Edited by Stalima.5490
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2 hours ago, Stalima.5490 said:

yes and then what is the point in mechanical genius in that case? just to frustrate people?

I would say yes. 

Since the introduction of this really ''genius'' antibuff theres not a single qol upgrade to compensate constant looking after your mech when you put it in ranged mode. There were advice to give your mech special name color to find your greeny in meta events and even in more visually cluttered encounters but seems Anet cant/dont want to bother (no one of them plays engie not even talking about mech) Solution to repeatably call it back to you is not a solution. I alredy switched mech to melee mode so I can atleast know its on MY target or coming to my target 🙂

At least one thing I need to admit. Anets goal to decrease mech population is working. 

p.s. Anet if youre reading: my advice to kill  mech properly, just remove alac from it. Heal alac is what carry this class now.

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5 hours ago, Mic.1897 said:

Just a reminder that you should be in melee range as much as possible even with Rifle.

True, Shortbow and Pistols... u always have to be in melee range because of the passives.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Mic.1897 said:

Just a reminder that you should be in melee range as much as possible even with Rifle.

You are only thinking about a static environment, out in the world where you will get demolished for standing in melee with the rifle you basically need to sit at least at mid-range most of the time to avoid unneccessary damage intake.

In this environment your mech will be sitting at weakened cooldowns almost 100% of the time, this is actually even worse for the ranged mech in this case

Edited by Stalima.5490
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On 6/21/2024 at 7:04 AM, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

While I can agree on the effect being annoying, where does the idea come from that engi is primarily ranged? 

Scrapper is melee. 

Holo is melee. 

Mechanist got Mace which is melee. 

 

To specifically address this, much of engineers capability is mostly categorised by kits to which 4 out of 6 are primarily ranged (the FT would put you out of mechanical genious range while still maintaining any close range bonuses) as well as it's only 2 base weapons also being ranged.

The toolkit and bomb kit are designed to augment ranged builds, the toolkit's design being for pulling enemies to you while also having a ranged toolbelt and the bomb kit is generally more of a utility kit to discourage engaging the engineer in melee.

So yes, the engineer is for all intents and purposes a ranged profession especially as it's core components are designed to compliment it being the predominantly ranged focused profession that it originally was.

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On 6/21/2024 at 12:18 PM, Stalima.5490 said:

yes and then what is the point in mechanical genius in that case? just to frustrate people?

Genuine answer.

Mech was the most broken brain dead OP build that was ever made in Gw2.

Which was by choice from a now fired Dev.

To make sure that we never ever have a situation like launch Mech, they have to make sure that the Engi is actually playing the game and not just sitting AFK at range while the Mech is killing everything.

Mechs core design is so good, they have to find ways to keep it in check somehow.

 

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17 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Genuine answer.

Mech was the most broken brain dead OP build that was ever made in Gw2.

Which was by choice from a now fired Dev.

To make sure that we never ever have a situation like launch Mech, they have to make sure that the Engi is actually playing the game and not just sitting AFK at range while the Mech is killing everything.

Mechs core design is so good, they have to find ways to keep it in check somehow.

 

 

I think you mean the concept, the concept of a mech engineer is cool, but it is a nigh impossible task to try and implement a dedicated pet over the core mechanics of a profession and still be able to keep what makes the profession what it is meant to be, realistically the mechanist would have been functionally better if it was instead the engineer version of a minion necromancer but with jade robots as there are enough of them to make a small army i believe.

Under such a system, the toolbelt could easily be maintained on the mechanist while also allowing for all of the minions to have active abilities you can also press.

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2 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Genuine answer.

Mech was the most broken brain dead OP build that was ever made in Gw2.

Which was by choice from a now fired Dev.

To make sure that we never ever have a situation like launch Mech, they have to make sure that the Engi is actually playing the game and not just sitting AFK at range while the Mech is killing everything.

Mechs core design is so good, they have to find ways to keep it in check somehow.

 

Mech was dominant for only a few months and not on launch.  It wasn’t until they decided they liked the meme power build with AAR and changed that trait to no longer need 450 range and instead just any projectile.  At that time the mech was still able to trigger the rockets and while using a higher weapon strength than players, it was busted, it also no longer does that.  Honestly if they reverted mech to original design (with old AAR requirements) but with the fixed stat inheritance, things would be in a better place.  You actually had to pay attention to mech positioning and keep it at range, something more than just keeping it on your hip defeating the purpose of having a second entity.

 

mech has had a wild history and is now a convoluted mess due to various tweaks including mech genius.

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55 minutes ago, Gendalfs.7521 said:

Hmm sounds interesting. I wasnt here then so have no idea how gameplay looked like.

Look up the LI build competition teapot did, or Xyonon’s channel.  The video he did for it was gold and it was actually pretty fun to play.

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Keep in mind that just because you gain benefit from being closer with the rifle does not make it a melee weapon, its abilities are still usable at substantial range and thus it is indeed a ranged weapon, also one must remember that all engineer melee weapons have some form of ranged capability, even the melee ones and thus can be used in ranged only grenade builds as an example.

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Never being removed. Mechanist was a huge mistake, introducing a second, tanky body that autoattacks, autoboons, at 1200 range, while you retain full DPS/support functionality at range. It is two, fully-functioning bodies for the price of one with no tradeoff, on top of the already problematic issue that ranged damage on even a single body trivializes a lot of core combat. That is kitten ridiculous and it never should have happened without sacrificing player utility/mobility/damage and more responsibility for micromanaging of your puppetbot.

Mechanical Genius can stay. At least until they retool Mech properly to be a fairly designed ranged class that doesn't let players just sit on their butts autoattacking out of harm while their AI riflebot plays the game for them.

Edited by Batalix.2873
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3 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said:

Never being removed. Mechanist was a huge mistake, introducing a second, tanky body that autoattacks, autoboons, at 1200 range, while you retain full DPS/support functionality at range. It is two, fully-functioning bodies for the price of one with no tradeoff, on top of the already problematic issue that ranged damage on even a single body trivializes a lot of core combat. That is kitten ridiculous and it never should have happened without sacrificing player utility/mobility/damage and more responsibility for micromanaging of your puppetbot.

Mechanical Genius can stay. At least until they retool Mech properly to be a fairly designed ranged class that doesn't let players just sit on their butts autoattacking out of harm while their AI riflebot plays the game for them.

um... I'm not sure if you are aware but most professions can already do this, without a mech, I'm pretty sure even all of them may be to do this without mechs.

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5 hours ago, Stalima.5490 said:

um... I'm not sure if you are aware but most professions can already do this, without a mech, I'm pretty sure even all of them may be to do this without mechs.

1. It's almost like you didn't even read the part about the two body problem, which is very specific to mech in a way that exceeds the tankiness and functionality of Ranger pets or Necro minions.

2. Sure you can AA spam at range on any class, but Mech was egregious for adding Mech damage and utility on top of that. No other job other than virtuoso was as lazy and spammy at range such that players played it, it became meta, and it undermined the actual combat system.

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12 minutes ago, Batalix.2873 said:

1. It's almost like you didn't even read the part about the two body problem, which is very specific to mech in a way that exceeds the tankiness and functionality of Ranger pets or Necro minions.

2. Sure you can AA spam at range on any class, but Mech was egregious for adding Mech damage and utility on top of that. No other job other than virtuoso was as lazy and spammy at range such that players played it, it became meta, and it undermined the actual combat system.

All the mech does is give the mechanist a high low point and the trade of is a low high point.  I fail to see why this is an issue, using your mech manually is still far better than using it automated, the only thing adding a weird mechanical glueness mechanic does is kill synergies that weren't even being complained about and severely cripples any concept of tactical and skilled play by the mechanist as they are mostly forced into incorrect and bad positions to play effectively.

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13 hours ago, Batalix.2873 said:

Never being removed. Mechanist was a huge mistake, introducing a second, tanky body that autoattacks, autoboons, at 1200 range, while you retain full DPS/support functionality at range. It is two, fully-functioning bodies for the price of one with no tradeoff, on top of the already problematic issue that ranged damage on even a single body trivializes a lot of core combat. That is kitten ridiculous and it never should have happened without sacrificing player utility/mobility/damage and more responsibility for micromanaging of your puppetbot.

Mechanical Genius can stay. At least until they retool Mech properly to be a fairly designed ranged class that doesn't let players just sit on their butts autoattacking out of harm while their AI riflebot plays the game for them.

You don’t retain full dps/support at range though.  Mech is a nothing traitline for the player, we’re sacrificing self modifiers and boons to push it to the second body.  Engi is also tied to melee range for many of its effects (damage and boon).  
 

I’ll agree, mech should never have happened or should have more player interaction.  Pet classes are always problematic with the perception of AI doing the work for the player (sometimes it’s real, but not always).  This has been a point of player contention since back in EverQuest.  If I were a dev it’s something I just wouldn’t touch, but we’re here and if we’re stuck with mech it shouldn’t suck.

 

and rifle sucks, especially at range, mech genius would not change a thing there.  My biggest frustration is whiffing a boon f2/3 and not only missing that round of boons but getting a cooldown punishment on top, wtf!

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14 minutes ago, Jerus.4350 said:

You don’t retain full dps/support at range though.  Mech is a nothing traitline for the player, we’re sacrificing self modifiers and boons to push it to the second body.  Engi is also tied to melee range for many of its effects (damage and boon).  
 

I’ll agree, mech should never have happened or should have more player interaction.  Pet classes are always problematic with the perception of AI doing the work for the player (sometimes it’s real, but not always).  This has been a point of player contention since back in EverQuest.  If I were a dev it’s something I just wouldn’t touch, but we’re here and if we’re stuck with mech it shouldn’t suck.

 

and rifle sucks, especially at range, mech genius would not change a thing there.  My biggest frustration is whiffing a boon f2/3 and not only missing that round of boons but getting a cooldown punishment on top, wtf!

2/3 specs still dedicated to the player was definitely enough to make Mechanist unreasonably spammable with practically no tradeoffs other than "less than top DPS" (oh no, such a sacrifice).

I agree Mech shouldn't suck, no job should suck, but also no job should have such effortless tall poppy design either. I have been saying for years that we can't have it both ways. Either Mech continues to get crippled by sweeping handicaps like Mechanical Genius, or it needs to be completely redesigned as more of a "puppeteer" job that wrests DPS away from the player character and forces them to use the Mech as their weapon. Actually, given that Engi was always the "less weaponskills, more kit skills" job, Mechanist could easily have functioned as a weaponless job that totally replaces the weapon with J-Mech remote control skills, or at LEAST served as a swappable kit like on Bladesworn. The fact that it has never bothered to make that simple change, and allow both player and J-Mech to autoattack at range, is why it is the worst-designed job in the game and why we need Mechanical Genius for now.

Edited by Batalix.2873
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I wouldn’t call that a  a simple change, that’s a pretty massive overhaul, but I’d be down.

 

I think you’re forgetting all the other nerfs pMech has gotten though.  Mech genius being removed wouldn’t change much for it, and certainly wouldn’t cause a second coming of the jade mech invasion.  Pretty sure unload deadeye would still be the better 2apm ranged build, and virt certainly better for an actual ranged build.

Edited by Jerus.4350
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