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Herald returnee - PvP question and or help with viable builds


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Hello dear Revenant community.

Im back again from a longer break and id like to know if herald is decent in PvP as of right now and what build is doing good?
I am a bit rusty ofc I admit that but it feels very terrible fighting anything right now.

 

I saw some Vindicator hammer builds being good. Any tips on that? Or generaly a viable damage build would be nice for PvP. 
( I suck at condi herald tho I cant somehow play it. Though if you got a decent guide to it id take that too xD)

Appreciate all help! 

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If Power Herald is no longer forced to take trash staff, since it folds within the first 5 seconds of a fight without it, then yes, things will be much better. Because then you can finally take two non-useless offensive weapons.

Edited by Sereath.1428
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17 minutes ago, Sereath.1428 said:

If Power Herald is no longer forced to take trash staff, since it folds within the first 5 seconds of a fight without it, then yes, things will be much better. Because then you can finally take two non-useless offensive weapons.

Yea I've jumped on immediately to try Swords and Hammers, anything that isn't Staff.

It's decent now, not great, but decent. I'm trying to meet more competent players on annoying classes, see how good it is because having GS in my backpack along with Dual Swords is actually great for pressure. 

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2 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

BROS ARE WE BACK!? 
 

  • True Nature (Legendary Dragon): This skill now cleanses 3 conditions from nearby allies when used.

A surprise, to be sure, but a welcome one.

While I don't see herald supplanting something like druid as go-to support in competitive modes, it does open up some new possibilities, especially when combined with the leadership relic and the salvation line. Toss in shield for added condition removal and, hypothetically, you should be able to provide a steady stream of condition cleanse and damage mitigation.

Now, if ANet would just give herald back its access to quickness in competitive modes, we might see something really interesting...

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  • 2 weeks later...
Posted (edited)
On 6/26/2024 at 2:21 AM, Yasai.3549 said:

 

  • True Nature (Legendary Dragon): This skill now cleanses 3 conditions from nearby allies when used.

This buff would have made more sense if it was condi to boon convert. That would atleast contribute with the +2 sec boon extension (3 if traited).

Edited by arazoth.7290
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23 hours ago, chaoslordlol.3165 said:

Thanks for the answers people. I guess its time to roll Vindi then for Power. A bit unfortunate I really like herald :x 

  Check Homage, He's been playing Herald lately with great success:

 

 

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^ There's other Rev players of higher skill in NA and the fan is even broader in EU, but those were just my "two cents" trying to help saying "there's this solid player which has been using a Herald build lately and likes to post videos of him playing PvP and explaying his decession making, his hits and his mistakes.

   There's definitely a very reduced amount of PvP Rev players currently streaming/showcasing videos ; some of the best no loger release content nor stream or even play the game, so is not like "you should  ignore this one because is not top ?? in the rankings". Some of my all time favs as Tubby Two Tons or Nici haven't upload any content in near 3 years, and some of the best Rev players doesn't even stream or upload any video.

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Posted (edited)

Recency with success is more important than "lmao skill level"

You can make the skill level argument at every point of the discussion but it's the fact that he's playing a recent build of Herald and finding success with it that gives better insight on the actual health of the build than "oh I'm skilled at it versus other skilled players" 

Herald is definitely decent now in PvP. You can even run Hammer build if you really want with Herald because they are no longer shackled by Staff swap to stave off Condi pressure. They can simply trade Shiro TN burst for Cleanse TN and continue swinging that hammer on people. Can also use GS all the same and can both cleave and burst as opposed to Swords' very single target nature.

(Honestly pretty sick of Swords recently despite being a massive Swords fan because the damage you deal to a single target when the stars align versus even ONE person splitting the damage of Sword 2 and 3 is night and day in terms of damage output. Like you can literally lose fights if you accidentally cleave 1 extra person with Sword 2 or 3) 

WvW is still pretty much a joke though, especially the Power variant. 

Edited by Yasai.3549
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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

WvW is still pretty much a joke though, especially the Power variant. 

And hammer is premium garbage in WvW.
0.91 coefficient on Coalescence. You can try it, it's about 3.5k? with Power Vindicator.
Phase Smash is also drastically weaker.
Otherwise Id be playing WvW a lot more.
(And sPvP is awful, simply because I find Conquest flawed for this game, so never going back. But maybe for a short time when their new game mode releases.)

Anyway, as I said in another post.
Hammer is going to carry this class by a lot when playing Power. Kinda awful.
Players are going to keep complaining about Vindicator and its orange circles until it is completly gone, no in between, because people work in extremes only, especially resentful ones.

And once Power Herald is actually competitive, get ready for the complaints. And similar to Vindicator ones:
"Man wtf, revs are just spamming teleports through walls while instantly doing 15k combos, somehow casting it all at the same time as Phase Traversal's cast animation and then using Riposting Shadows right after that, then legend swapping and spamming their 4 utilities in a row, then legend swapping again in 3 seconds and using Riposting followed by Phase Traversal and then doing a Jade Winds right at the end. Oh yeah, all that also while spamming all their weapon skills on cd. And they also have TWO HEALS!"

And after they nerf Herald again too, then they might actually nerf Hammer at the very end.
And that's just history. Over 10 years of history.
ANET, or at least some of the developers, are ridiculously proud, they would rather reinvent the wheel and circle around kitten than ever tackle things head on.
Same reason they never revert changes from years ago.
Maybe some of them also think that they can perpetually "balance" skills. So they rather mess with everything around it.
As if you could achieve such scenario where everything is "balanced", even if just fairly balanced.
Power is relative, things can't stay the same forever, even if they felt right in the past.

Edit:
Nah I dislike this approach very much.
With hammer allowing Power Herald being good again it just means that anything full melee is unplayable.
Thanks to the AOE vomit all over the floor. kittening awful designs all over the game.

No wonder why Warrior usually struggles; unless they get to be immortal they just can't play the kittening game because of their lack of ranged pressure.

Edited by Sereath.1428
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39 minutes ago, Sereath.1428 said:

With hammer allowing Power Herald being good again it just means that anything full melee is unplayable.

This is the backwards way of thinking about it.

The reason Hammer is good is because of all the anti melee nonsense we have in the kitten game these days. I'm so sick of Harbingers and Scrappers man. It feels like suicide attacking into them with melee without having like 30seconds of Resistance and Resolution permanently on you because if you get Blinded, Weakened and what not, it's already freaking over. I'm also so perplexed as to why there is so many nonsense that specifically counter Power and Melee while Condi and Ranged just has no counters period.

"But sir, cleansing is a counter! It removes damage entirely!" yea, but if the guy is running some cleanse spam build they aren't killing you, which means you have full agency and control of the fight which is what ultimately allows you to set up scenarios to push enemies off the point. 

The game is just annoyingly kittenous these days that I pretty much decided to live in WvW where at least I can have some semblance of fun running a full damage spike build to 1 shot squishies. 

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Posted (edited)

@Yasai.3549
Yeah, I agree with that, I think my English is a bit broken there, it's not my first language.
I did try to say that they are "aware" of how suicidal it is to play full melee anything. So instead of fixing their core game they keep patching things up. It's the reason why they gave Resistance for every movement skill with Devastation.
(Unless I misunderstood that first sentence too 💯)

Conditions are simply broken in this game. Being an alternative main source of death was not their original intention.
And you can even tell by just the name, they were designed to be an extra for some hybrid "power" builds. (Power just means normal damage in any other game 💀)
That is why they initially only needed (and still only need) a single stat. That is why toughness doesn't work with it.

But then some genius with apparently no experience changes everything for the worse.
And again, it wouldn't be as awful if most condi builds didn't have so much kittening access to aoe's and pulsing fields + range.
The most comical thing is that they tried to make Resolution the equivalent of Protection.
A couple of seconds of Protection can help you tank several attacks in that time. 2-4 attacks, etc.
But the same amount for Resolution is a joke, completely kittening useless, at that point you should take a completly different trait or relic.

Another reason why Retribution is bad. Its Resolution should be way longer for it to be any good. "Tank" traitline btw.
Last Retribution update: "Oh yeah, the tank traitline needs more damage."

Edited by Sereath.1428
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4 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Recency with success is more important than "lmao skill level"

You can make the skill level argument at every point of the discussion but it's the fact that he's playing a recent build of Herald and finding success with it that gives better insight on the actual health of the build than "oh I'm skilled at it versus other skilled players" 

Herald is definitely decent now in PvP. You can even run Hammer build if you really want with Herald because they are no longer shackled by Staff swap to stave off Condi pressure. They can simply trade Shiro TN burst for Cleanse TN and continue swinging that hammer on people. Can also use GS all the same and can both cleave and burst as opposed to Swords' very single target nature.

(Honestly pretty sick of Swords recently despite being a massive Swords fan because the damage you deal to a single target when the stars align versus even ONE person splitting the damage of Sword 2 and 3 is night and day in terms of damage output. Like you can literally lose fights if you accidentally cleave 1 extra person with Sword 2 or 3) 

WvW is still pretty much a joke though, especially the Power variant. 

So since my core build works really wel and I have succes with it, does it holds the same value?

Beware what saying next before using own words against yourself

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

So since my core build works really wel and I have succes with it, does it holds the same value?

Beware what saying next before using own words against yourself

It just means you can pull it off and anyone of the same skill level can too. Being viable isn't a skill level thing, it's a fundamental gameplay interaction thing. I only really think if it's unviable if no one can currently pull it off or find results with it. But if there's result, it's worth looking at. 

If this youtuber can somehow bring his Herald to rank 3, maybe it's worth looking at his success and studying it instead of "lol skill level" his content away. No idea what kind of high horse you get on to write away someone's skill level, maybe you should make videos and guides for people instead of hiding on forums and bashing other people's efforts.

Edited by Yasai.3549
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2 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

It just means you can pull it off and anyone of the same skill level can too. Being viable isn't a skill level thing, it's a fundamental gameplay interaction thing. I only really think if it's unviable if no one can currently pull it off or find results with it. But if there's result, it's worth looking at. 

If this youtuber can somehow bring his Herald to rank 3, maybe it's worth looking at his success and studying it instead of "lol skill level" his content away. No idea what kind of high horse you get on to write away someone's skill level, maybe you should make videos and guides for people instead of hiding on forums and bashing other people's efforts.

No high horse my man, realism people forget that it seems.

OP here asking and this is given as example, clearly op isn't around that skill lvl and not many others aren't either.

The maker of this youtube video clearly said himself, he was surprised that he got rank 3 out of placements with luck because he is mostly around 100-250 in scoreboard. Still a good rating and he makes really good videos, very nice to look at and inspires others in learning rev yes. You would have known this info, if you watched this video.

But this doesn't get away that most won't reach that level who only are interested in trying it out and expect results on short term.

Power herald is average A-tier, like I said not really in the levels of A+ S-  S+ tiers of really good. It's good, that's it and skill level matters, the better someone is, the better something can look.

 

Aside this, I am not bashing the youtube maker, because he makes great content and helps inspire others/giving tips.

I am myself not interested in making videos/media content, I am more then willingly to give others in game tips so jokes on you in judging.

 

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16 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

^ There's other Rev players of higher skill in NA and the fan is even broader in EU, but those were just my "two cents" trying to help saying "there's this solid player which has been using a Herald build lately and likes to post videos of him playing PvP and explaying his decession making, his hits and his mistakes.

   There's definitely a very reduced amount of PvP Rev players currently streaming/showcasing videos ; some of the best no loger release content nor stream or even play the game, so is not like "you should  ignore this one because is not top ?? in the rankings". Some of my all time favs as Tubby Two Tons or Nici haven't upload any content in near 3 years, and some of the best Rev players doesn't even stream or upload any video.

My rev has been shelved due to the nerfs and the lack of having a proper support build for the playstyle I want to play. I don't get all giddy over unga bungaing big numbers I like to help a team, and being support DPS is still unga bunga. And Herald heal support is... painful to say the least. Honestly it's why I only play GW2 in short bursts lately because the class I want to play doesn't really bring much to the table.

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