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Janthir Wilds Spear Beta Event Feedback: Guardian


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  • ArenaNet Staff

The beta event for spears has begun and is open to all players with an account in good standing! The event runs from June 27 at 9:00 a.m. Pacific Time until June 30 at 10:00 p.m. Pacific Time and we'd love to hear your feedback. Let us know what you think of the new weapon for guardians in this thread!

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Spear 2 indicator displays ~1200 range despite the ability only having 600 range.

Edit: When used you travel the intended 600 range.

Edited by Kayle.1586
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Personally, I think spear 2 is too bothersome and often brings you into awkward location, perhaps rework it into an enemy targeted skill (similar to willbender's F1) instead.

Spear 3 just gives boons and more boons, there's nothing worth saying about it.

Spear 4 brings almost nothing new to the heal Guardian in PvE, who already has access to tons of condi cleanse and light field generation. I'd prefer it to be changed into a ranged healing skill, which can also provide 1 stack of aegis (all Guardian's support weapons have this). When Illuminated, it will heal more and do pulsing aegis (2 stacks should be enough).

Moreover, increasing the break bar damage of skill 5 to 300 should be nice, as axe/shield can already bring this same amount.

Overally the Guardian's spear feels like a PvP/WvW weapon to me (judging from the pulsing cleanse and resistance), it doesn't bring anything new apart from those which the Guardian can already do with their excellent x/shield.

 

Edited by SanguinE.9435
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I checked Spear Willbender in PvP and really like it. However, there are 3 suggestions I would make

 

Spear 2 is a bit too slow, which makes it feel clunky and disrupts the flow during rotations. Since it doesn‘t have any evade frames or cc like Staff 5 on Revenant does, you could surely make it a bit faster.

 

Spear 1 autoattack doesn‘t seem to hit people sometimes while you are moving. Would be nice if you fix the bug.

 

Spear 5 symbol having a knockback of 0 automatically disqualifies the weapon from being used on Dragonhunter, since a longer knockback would be required to synergize well with the Trap Test of Faith.

 

Overall you have done a great job!

Edited by GuriGashi.5617
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Spear 1:   unimaginative. The cone will miss melee range target if you face slight off .  "it's auto, whatever".  Trading some dps for healing is usually a flop. Either you are ranged, or you are not.  This awkward range both place the guard in melee danger while paying dps cost of being a range weapon.

Spear 2: Too slow to be a movement skill, while extremely disruptive in combat. EXTREMELY disruptive.  Any WB would know this frustration from their F2. Guess what, now we got another one like that. Does little effects at the cost of messing up your rotation, decreasing your DPS . As a bonus, it kicks you out of your symbol.   Please use ground target like  F3 of WB.   Make him jump up to the sky and slam down or throw down the spear at the target circle. You have this animation already, do you not?   Or make a flip skill that allows teleporting the guardian back to target.

Spear 4: only 3 out of 5 hits connect to golem target.  Poor damage.  Adjust the hit circle to make all hits land and Make the landed spears to explode for additional damage please.

Spear 5:  Symbols are guardian thing, connected to many rotation and traits, and are not allowed to have long CD , period!  A symbol at recharge of 20sec is very steep, even considering its effect.  You would think guards like to have their symbol's uptime as much as possible like  sword,  GS.    "but but resistance is such a powerful boon".  Fine, take it away. I'm willing to make the trade for a different boon but at 10CD.  1s pulsing Resistance is meaningless if the guard likes to stay in symbol anyways.

All skills need to have the CDs readjust.  These are unacceptably long. 

Conclusions:   dead on arrival as it is.  

Weapons that try to be both support and dps will be hard to slot in.  They are not excelled at neither.  Honestly , whether it's  powerbuild,  adps, Qh, condi builds,  I can't imagine how spear would compete with existing options. 

 

Edited by quaniesan.8497
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Spear 2 Skill (Helio Rush) feels super awkward especially in PvE and it disrupts the flow during rotations, But you want to use it for the Illumated buff but it moves you which isn't good for many bosses where poistioning is key. Furthermore it moves you outside the 5 skill symbol (Symbol of luminace) which you want to stay inside.

I think the skill needs to be changed it to a Ranged line AoE attack, Throwing the spear (600 or 900 range) and if your allies are within the raduis or it's path of the spear then it heals them and if the spear strikes the foe it gives the Illumated buff.

Also Spear 2 Skill (Helio Rush) only gives allies the Resolution boon while Illumated but it doesn't give the Guardian the Resolution boon. Which is strange considering a few builds of Guardian use the Resolution boon. Could this also be changed to give the guardian this buff too. Have it gain the Resolution boon upon hitting a foe.

Edited by crazyhusky.2985
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From WvW power damage perspective:

The spear is mainly a damage weapon, it has no personal healing or defensive skills, the CC is more situational and less useful than Greatsword, Hammer, Longbow and Staff.

In general, I feel the weapon is a bit clunky and slow, over the past 12 years GW2 has evolved from being a tactical slower paced game to become a highly mobile, fast skill spamming game.

The illuminated versions of skill 2, 3 and 5 are utterly lacklustre and should be the baseline skills. Skills 3, 4 and 5 were given high recharges in WvW.

 

Daybreaking Slash - Pretty awful, the frontal cone is so narrow it constantly misses in melee range against any moving target (not a static golem).

 

Helio Rush - Some decent damage here when it lands, but it's very slow to move 600 units and it often doesn't land a hit. Using it in melee is too clunky, you just run through your target and then lose damage as you're out of position and need to move back.  Massive bug - it lands 3-4 times vs downed enemies

 

Gleaming Disc - Damage is ok, the illuminated version should be baseline, the Blind coming at the end of the second wave is pointless as you want to Blind at the start of the skill before it hits (Symbol of Blades, traited F1 Justice is Blind, Leap of Faith, Roiling Light, Brilliance).

 

Solar Storm - The best skill on the weapon, nerfed strongly for WvW in damage which is all the skill does. Only cleanses 1 condition also. Balanced down too hard.

 

Symbol of Luminance - Seems good on paper, but 180 range is basically melee, so getting off the symbol to try and CC usually means you're taking a tonne of damage and with the general clunkyness of the Spear it doesn't flow well right now, just running after a target to try and CC? It's just an AoE interrupt, not any kind of knockdown, Daze or Stun so it doesn't justify a Judges Intervention combo either. 2s of Resistance is nothing, too low.

Illuminated version is boring and doesn't work / description is misleading; text description says while the Symbol is active all your skills are automatically illuminated too even if you leave the Symbol - This doesn't work at all... It wasn't hard to test either...

 

 

Ideas:

Daybreaking Slash - Add a single target higher damage channeled light beam from 350-900 range.

Helio Rush - Make the skill a 600 range leap like Leap of Faith or Heartseeker with damage and healing through the leap, or at least make it charge towards the targeted enemy and stop in melee when striking, rather than along a set path. Resolution boon made baseline.

Gleaming Disc - Blind & Fury made baseline.

Solar Storm - Reduce cooldown to 15s

Symbol of Luminance - Make the CC an AoE Daze, reduce cooldown to 20s

 

Remove or reimagine the illuminated effect, it's awful right now, I don't even think about trying to get it because the pay-off is too low and the Symbol version just doesn't work. The Spear looks amazing vs golems but vs mobile combat it's lacking right now.

Edited by Ezrael.6859
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Skill 1:  a iluminated version of AA would be nice.

skill 2 personaly I didn't like it. Its realy hard to heal and u put yourself in a bad position every time. My suggestion, remove heal, share aegis and superspeed, and allow us to choose the location where the dash ends, like warrior staff 3. 

skill 3 add heal. 

skill 4 add heal.

skill 5 its nice but CD seems to be to high. I would love to see a leap animation followed by a symbol, like DH F2, or warrior stopm,  droping a symbol when landing. Maybe a illuminated version.

Edited by zicaB.1794
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Feedback based on pvp:

Spear 2 feels way too slow to be used either for support or disengage. It would benefit from a speed increase. I'm also told that it heals you when you hit a target but I haven't noticed it to work. If possible it would be great if spear 2 would heal you regardless of whether you hit a target or pass over allies. 

Other than that, I'm pretty happy with the other skills. Great damage in spvp and synergizes well with the rest of the guardian kit.

Edited by Kuya.6495
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Spear 1: Suggestions: add an illuminated version to sinergize with SPEAR 5, so it can work as a proper filler; add self healing to it

Edit 1: widen cone length, easily miss moving targets

Spear 2: feels awkward in PvE, slow in PvP

Suggestion: Turn this skill a Leap/Shadowstep instead of a Rush/Charge, would work better with the available tools guardian have

Spear 3: long cooldown, currently nothing here justify the 12 seconds wait, illuminated version is not that good

Suggestion: lower cooldown

Edit 1: Increase radius and shock-wave raidus

Spear 4: Same issue as SPEAR 3, long cooldown, illuminated version is bad

Suggestions: lower cooldown, immobilize effect to it’s illuminated version; heal or either a stronger damage effect add to illuminated

Spear 5: 20 seconds cooldown for a symbol is insane since it’s the main key point for power/healing builds (Symbolic Power/Symbolic Avenger/Writ of Persistence), due huge cooldown on 3 and 4 skills, take advantage of Luminance effect will be a rare feature in most of the encounters both PvE/PvP

Suggestion 01: lower cooldown

Suggestion 02: if you chose to maintain 20 seconds, add a reset effect to SPEAR 2, 3 and 4

 

Animations feels and look smoth, the design here is top tier, however this weapon work as a mere filler for power and healing builds

Power builds: low damage scale, long cooldowns, Guardian have way better and more optimal choices available

Healing builds: lack of self healing on 1, low healing scale on Helios Rush, with the mentioned skill putting us in weird positions most of the time, situational filler for Staff since it does not do a better job than Mace/Axe+Shield, low healing overall.

 

Final thoughts: during live stream showcase, Guardian spear was described as offensive support weapon, however hammer is already avaiable doing exactly what it spear was described, however hammer is nobody choice, for any content, for the solo purpose of being a hybrid weapon and being functional at neither, that being said the biggest suggestion is to go full offensive or full support, right now is clunky and will most likely be dead on arrival if not reshaped.

 

I’ll add/remove observations as I play throught beta.

 

Edited by Supernova Starr.2069
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Last expansion I tried to judge weapons by "what does this replace in my kits". I used to play rev in all modes, scepter didnt make it into a single kit, it was power and barrier, it didnt work. On top of that manging "if you use this ability you get this resources and then your weapon might actually do something" is not that fun, in fact its very unfun to me at least, happy to admit I could be wrong. When I saw the preview for spear I groaned because its almost scepter all over again, how they did not learn these try and do 2 things at once weapons dont work I have no idea. Probably part the boot lickers who shot down any criticsm for scepter. Anyway, spear and guardian. It has no identity or anything guardian needs other than one kit, roaming in WvW on willbender. 2 more movements, cleanse, a CC and a bit of burst damage, if you thought willy was strong before wait till after the spear comes out.... Thats it for me, I wont take it over anything on minstrel firebrand, the META now leans towards firebrands doing burning in WvW so its useless there. Open world its not got good enough damage to warrant replacing a power weapon but its also not got good enough support to replace one to compliment the other. Like sat on rev staff is rubbish but its good to mitigate damage as an emergency switch and the other weapon purely being damage. I dont play healing guardian in PvE but I might suggest it doesnt heal enough and one heal being a dash for it to come anywhere near replacing sheild or staff.

Skill 1 is woeful, like how it made it to BETA even with a straight face. Its staff 1 pre nerf, and it was a nerf. But now it does bad damage, worse healing and only hits 3 allies/enemies........ Hotpatch that to 5 immediately if you have any shame.

Skill 2. I am both not against and entirely against this. Healing is pointless lets start there, a dash heal, its willbender F2 but slower and longer. The biggest thing I suggest is allow us to select where the dash finishes, that is the be all and end all of what 2 needs. it is VERY important for lets say Firebrand to be in position, there is no good reason to dash off your team/commaander for a 2k heal.... Once the movement is fixed, maybe consider it giving something else, maybe remove healing and add superspeed for 5 allies. I do wonder about the wisdom of giving willbender another 2 dashes, that heal too.... Like I said, healing/damage hybrid doesnt work, this is going to take WB to another level and just result in nerfs in WvW/PvP no matter how weak you make it hit/heal.

Skill 3, meh, ok damage, blind is useless so no real use illuminating it. This could be the single skill that puts this spear into several kits. Might is ok, but add resoultion and quickess when illuminated, pulse it on a light field that blinds. Goes from meh to purpose defining, again remove the healing at that point from 2.

4 is basically greatsword 5 on rev, but with worse damage and condi cleanse, no real complaint its good, looks amazing too. BUT. Again this weapon needs more purpose, with or whithout the above, when this weapon is illuminated, it also removes boons, or maybe specifically stability like renegade. Not sure this will be used to its cleansing ability even illuminated. Its not a big zerg cleanse, small scale there are better cleanses that dont sacrifcice your damage rotation. Its more of a "oh I also do this" skill. Might be worth upping the damage and removing the cleanse, putting it on 2 when illuminated.

5 is a nice CC no complaint, best source of annoying illumination, cooldown too high, think more shortbow 5 on rev but no range. Glad its a knockdown not knockback.

As bad as it is, its also a bit clunky but I really want to say the art is superb, it looks AMAZING visually, the symbols and spears falling look gorgeous.

Edited by Bish.8627
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maybe remove rush animation on spear 2 and replace it with superspeed for like 2 seconds. The skill should do the same as it does now except the movement part. You can still run through allies/enemies with the same spear holding animation. The only difference would be that you'd have superspeed for a short time instead of rushing in a fixed direction. Right now the animation is so slow and so clunky it's really not fun to use

 

edit:

i like the idea that spear would give guardian a dps weapon for zerg play in wvw so guardian can finally have a dps role in a squad (aside from cele firebrands)... if spear two gets fixed that may be possible

Edited by Ferus.3165
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41 minutes ago, Bish.8627 said:

5 is a nice CC no complaint, best source of annoying illumination, cooldown too high, think more shortbow 5 on rev but no range. Glad its a knockdown not knockback.

I have been wondering about skill 5...the description says it knocks back on initial cast, but that wording should be changed to be more accurate.  For me, it isn't even a knockdown, it's just an interrupt.  I'd like to see a higher defiance break on it. 

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Guardian spear felt really incomplete to me.  The mismatch between indicator range and actual range for heliorush was just a symptom.  And skill 1 is seriously underwhelming.

  • As short a run as heliorush gives you, what's even the point of the cancel heliorush skill option?  At least give the player some benefit for shortening the run.  Edit: when you say "boons" (plural), the expectation is more than one. smh
  • There is no defensive/protective spear skill.  It's a guardian; this feels like a complete miss.
  • Illuminated feels a bit clunky, and I think adding a chain to skill 1 could fix two problems.  A three-step chain would not only add a "cool factor," but you could also reward illuminated at step 3 for completing the skill chain.

Edit -- One correction: two skills grant resistance, maybe.  Still underwhelming, especially when the only defensive boon is conditional.  There's a couple ways to heal, but guardian already has weapons that heal.  Heliorush grants offensive boons (might and, if illuminated, fury), but these are everywhere; it's rare that I don't top out at 25 stacks of might in any group event, no matter what profession I'm playing.  In a way, it feels like you tried to create a weapon that would be viable in all play modes and ended up with one that doesn't do any of them well.  Let's have the guardian do what the guardian is good at: defense.

  • Add spear to Zealous Blade.
  • When a boon stacks duration, then let it stack!  Don't make a skill that only grants the boon to those who don't have it.
  • Resistance is good because the guardian currently only has, at most, two ways to grant it, but it needs to be brought more to the fore.  Protection, resolution, and aegis are secondary choices since the guardian can already grant these a number of ways.   Offer stability and regeneration for illuminated skills -- these are both boons that the guardian has little of.
  • The spear's healing effects feel more like an afterthought, like they were added because you already knew that the skills were lackluster.  Daybreaking Slash feels especially lost since it only really, um, shines when you're fighting in close with a large group of allies, such as world boss battles.  Burst effects and self-healing would make it a little more useful, preferably combined with a skill chain.

I think this would give the spear a unique place in the guardian's arsenal and make it much more thematically appealing.

Edited by Xei Han.8736
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Feels very odd. Like the holding stance and some of the animations are ok. 

It doesn't feel like either a melee or a ranged weapon, which is irksome. I'd rather it be ranged OR melee. Skill 2 needs replaced or to become a targeted shadowstep like sword 2 if it is to be a melee weapon. The charge-through just means it will always be counterproductive in combat, taking you somewhere annoying. 

I think I seem to feel the same as a lot of the previous posts. Skill 2 is definitely wrong, and the rest feels a bit confusing and lacklustre. Please give us throwing spears back ala GW1 paragon or make it full melee with a decent symbol and no clunky movement adjustments. 

I'm glad for spears to come to land, but to be in GW2 it needs more fun!

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So, I have been tinkering with the spear and build combinations. A lot of the feedback above is super valid. Here’s my take:

Skill 1: It feels very basic, not much else to say.

Suggestions(s): needs a chain or Illuminated version. It’s very basic otherwise.

Skill 2: The range and visual cue don’t align. It makes it hard to position well and once in melee range, it’s not useful. It’s also very slow in its execution for a “rush” skill. The cancel mechanic also isn’t my favourite.

Suggestion(s): I would appreciate it more if it were a teleport skill, healing/damaging on arrival. 

Skill 3: I have no issues with this skill, really. Solid AoE that has nice boons. If there’s something to nitpick, it’s the cooldown.

Skill 4: Same as above. Great animation!

Skill 5: Symbols are so integral to Guardian builds. The 20 second cooldown is too much, especially since symbols only last 4 secs and it’s not like the Illumination OPs the player (from what I see). 

I also agree with the mechanic of knock back making no sense if I want to remain inside the symbol. Knockdown would make more sense here.

Suggestion(s): I feel like a 10-12 CD would be reasonable.

Overall: Spear will not be an easy adaption on arrival in its current form for Guardian mains. The CD between skills 1 & 2 versus the rest feel unbalanced, especially with 2 being movement based that is only useful when engaging an enemy, not mid combat. It also is not immediately apparent to me what kind of build to make to leverage spear effectively with utility skills and weapon swapping for rotations.

I like the direction, but some tweaks will be needed! 

 

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From trying it a lil bit on WvW:

* Skill 1: 

- Does not hit when on inclined terrain like stairs.

- The cone could use a bigger angle as it kinda of forces you to stop and attack, while a bigger angle (like the old guardian staff 1).

- The auto misses a lot of the time. I noticed that if you cast it while moving forward, the skill will cast behind you.

* Skill 2:

- Movement is always nice but right now is very slow. A half second cast time would make it better.

- The extra effect when being illuminated does not feel very useful. We have plenty of ways for giving resolution to allies. In my opinion, giving super speed to nearby allies when illuminated could make it better, but I would increase the recharge time to 10s if that was the case.

- Has the same problem as skill 1 in that it misses a lot if on inclined terrain like stairs.

- Range indicator arrow is 1200 range, but the skill is only 600 range.

* Skill 3:

- The hit radius for the initial strike has to be bigger. Casting while moving makes it hard to land.

* Skill 4:

- Seems fine to me.

* Skill 5:

- Feels great!

- Only thing I'd change is maybe change the knock back for a pull towards the center, as it would synergize better with a melee kit.

 

Edited by Kirevey.5079
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2 minutes ago, eddysut.5807 said:

Overall: Spear will not be an easy adaption on arrival in its current form for Guardian mains. The CD between skills 1 & 2 versus the rest feel unbalanced, especially with 2 being movement based that is only useful when engaging an enemy, not mid combat. It also is not immediately apparent to me what kind of build to make to leverage spear effectively with utility skills and weapon swapping for rotations.

I like the direction, but some tweaks will be needed! 

I found that at least in WvW, spear is really strong on a FB, as it lets you do so pretty nice combos with the tome skills.

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I'm not someone who is a min/max damage output or an expert at builds, but I'll make a few notes about guardian about the general flow of things:

-Love skills 4 and 5, though I think the symbol on skill 5 should be just a tad longer
- the auto attack/1 skill was a little hard to hit foes that were standing directly in front of me. It wouldn't hit some of the time. It seems that either there is some kind of bug OR maybe the area/width is super narrow. Either way, it seemed that it was only landing hits about 1/2 to 2/3 of the time.
-the 2 skill (the rush skill) would be useful if it had some kind of burst skill at the end of the rush or left a trail of some kind (similar to the willbender virtues), as much of the time I didn't even hit anything while in use

Edited by IndigoAneirin.1590
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GS is pure melee with a little cc and mobility. Hammer is damage and support in melee with a little ranged soft-cc. Longbow is damage, cc and soft-cc at range.

Staff is mostly support with some cc and a bit of infrequent damage.

 

Spear seems to find itself in a weird position, it's meant to be melee but has an auto that doesn't work well outside Zerg 1-pushing. The ranged skill can be ok but has had its damaged neutered and given a high recharge in WvW. The cooldowns are all so high that you use 3, 4 and 5 and then you're left with a useless auto-attack and a clumsy slow dash. It's a really awkward weapon and after using 345 I find myself just wishing I could be back on Sword/Sword sooner. Spear is mostly clunky damage and no sustain or defensive skills.

This kind of weapon feels like it was made for Warrior with a 5 second weapon-swap.

Helio Rush is an utter mess, you're trying to stay on top of an enemy and you're just dashing around away from the enemy, you might land a hit sometimes but it's too slow and clunky, it's never useful for healing allies on purpose. If you're fighting anywhere near a wall, an edge or a cliff etc then it's an utter liability, you just often end up charging right off the edge. A leap that travels directly to your target and hits things along the path would be better.

 

It should be more like Revenant's Greatsword.

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Overall the spear feels decent but there are some things that I think need adjusting.

Balance

  • The auto attack "Daybreaking Slash" skill feels somewhat underwhelming when it comes to damage
  • "Solar Storm" and "Symbol of Luminance" feels like their cooldown is slightly too long. Maybe reduce each 2 seconds.

Mechanic changes

  • "Gleaming Disc" and "Solar Storm" really need to start the target lock-on feature. Opening an with these skills and not having it target and then start the auto attack afterward is strange feeling. 
  • I'm personally not a fan of "Helio Rush" simply because it's a directional aim AOE. I always find these really awkward. Especially when you're running. If it was changed to a normal AOE circle and you simply rushed to that point, I think it would make it less awkward to use.

Current bug encounters

  • The only bug I've actually encountered so far is when your character is knocked back, down or launched they are stuck in an "A" pose until they get back up. It seems as though the animation is missing so you simply slide across the ground in that "A" pose. 
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15 minutes ago, Kirevey.5079 said:

I found that at least in WvW, spear is really strong on a FB, as it lets you do so pretty nice combos with the tome skills.

Interesting! I’m more PvE, if anything (should have specified that), but I have to admit tome swapping on Spear as a FB would solve my CD issues if I were to incorporate that into a rotation.

Back to experimenting!!

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Heres my take on Guardian spear:

The good:

Its an Okeish power weapon with Willbender boons, the spear gives you Resolution, Heals,  Fury, might cleanse and resistance to condis with the last skill

The bad: 

Skill 1 is meh 

Sadly I think the spear is stuck in a weird place between a support wannabe weapon and a power weapon, the Skill 2 that emulates Wb F2 is really bad, I can see a lot of situations when that dash will put you either on a bad spot or will yeet you out of a stage, why do we need to run across a friend to give boons? 

the skill 4 that cleanses condis has a cooldown of FIFTEEN SECONDS so is useless in a fight unless you conbine that with other cleanse skills. 

Overall I fell like you get better boons using Tomes, mantras or meditations or that cleanses enemies, does damage AND gives you fury than using the spear to get those effects. 

Edited by Makion.3457
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