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Janthir Wilds Spear Beta Event Feedback: Engineer


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  • ArenaNet Staff

The beta event for spears has begun and is open to all players with an account in good standing! The event runs from June 27 at 9:00 a.m. Pacific Time until June 30 at 10:00 p.m. Pacific Time and we'd love to hear your feedback. Let us know what you think of the new weapon for engineers in this thread!

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First impression: 
- Nr5 skill very slow cast time, very long after cast, locks you in place for the entire skill
-Nr3 180 radius  on first stage feels very underwhelming
-Nr3 stage 2 takes too long to hit the target after activating.
-Nr4 cast time of 1 second feels really clunky especially in WvW where the entire dmg portion is removed.
-Nr2 pathing makes it overshoot sometimes missing the entire value of the weapon set.
Other: Having only 1 way of applying focused feels abit lacking. Alwaso being  only able to apply focused on a single enemy feels like a waste compared to other specs that can both run down a single enemy as well as dishing out insane aoe dmg.
additionally, it would be fun to be able to get the Nr5 secondary off on multiple enemies. Feels like a bit of a waste not to be able to.
Maybe the nr3 skills first stage, or the nr4 skill could apply extra focused in an aoe? I know the whole thing is to be a single target heavy builds but cmon.. why?

Biggest pain points i saw was lack of inherent active defenses. Being a melee weapon with long and obvious cast times makes it really tricky to get off a good combo especially with the amount of ccs flying around nowadays.

Power damage seemd fine with berserker. Not sure about the condis parts though, as engineer doesnt rly have a good set to both load an enemy with condis or keep up the condi pressure over time vs cleanse heavy builds

Aesthetically the skills look sick. The animations team really did a good job. I like the fact that evne though its electric themed, its not clean electricity, but rather with some orangy firey colours in there.

Edited by Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365
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[WVW Roamer]

  • Damage seems fine on power (if you are able to focus) Power damage is mediocre, even with focus (if you even manage to hit them with anything)
  • No condi on #3 pulsing attack is annoying (bleed would be cool to get more Firearms synergy)
  • #5 is very slow and the aftercast is annoying
  • #4 is very slow
  • #2 overshoots the target constantly
    • Focus is necessary to actually do any damage; without it, the spear skills are pretty useless
  • #3 Range is very low and requires you to have LOS/be facing the target (and has what feels like a very narrow LOS cone)
    • This means you can't kite and apply backwards pressure (like nades)
    • I thought it would be useful to literally pin a focused target but if they have any movement skill (or even move next to you), it will simply not do anything
  • No defenses/movement skill hamstrings build options
    • Pretty much required to take Toolkit and or Photon Wall to survive anything'
  • No builtin movement means you are forced into your espec traits/rocket boots to even have a chance of chasing targets
    • #2 is not really a movement skill: without a target (or even if the target is out of range I think), it moves quite slow (and you don't want to waste your focus)
Edited by inci.3705
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Initial impressions are that the coefficients and conditions are HILARIOUSLY overtuned compared to existing engineer weapons.

Like, compare the power coeffs with rifle, and the condi application with pistols. It's better than both at the same time.

Edit: no longer HILARIOUSLY overtuned, at least according to the wiki.

Edited by coro.3176
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44 minutes ago, inci.3705 said:
    • Focus is necessary to actually do any actual damage; without it, the spear skills are pretty useless

Jep, quick run in openworld it is a bit annoying to do. Specially in bigger scale fights where there are lot of players and enemies. Also some enemy talk back and there will be speaking bubble that blocks its view.

Think they can tune the casting speeds better and will feel a lot better. Right now it is uhh clunky, long cast speed and cooldown makes it a bit bad, but these are things they can fix. But focusing could kill this weapon.

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I come from a wvw roaming perspective.


Skill #1 AA chain: pretty fine and works great with some traits good for building might and getting fury or burning procs. Needs to have a larger radius.

Skill #2 leap: wish it leapt a bit longer (900 range) to use as a general movement along side an engage or chase. allow focus to hit multiple targets, without focus you don't do dps so i can only dps the focused target. People at max range can just walk out of it. It would also be amazing if this was an evade too. once the animation starts and the spear hits there is a weird locking bit where you can't dodge even though you finished hitting them. The spear also only goes 700 if someone is targeted and withing the range threshold, other than that it goes 450.

Skill #3 aoe: just need something extra like some sort of condi or even just some sort of boon. Doesn't give mech punch. This also needs projectile block.

Skill #3 spear throw: my goodness the cast time is way too long and needs longer range. You also should be able to cast this in any direction. it would also be nice if once you get the spear it stay with you until you use it. Bug: if someone is too close the spear launches but doesn't hit.

Skill #4 ground stun: make sure the tool tip shows that it has a focus ability, please add some sort of condi with it bleed would be nice. Also very clunky to try to hit targets at extreme close range, maybe add a small aoe circle so you can hit players along side the cone. You need to just make hitting targets easier.

Skill #5: This one is the most pain. Needs a further range, quicker leap, and remove the jank animation after you hit the ground. People can walk out of this ability. Skill 5 gets canceled out if you swap to kits, please make sure it finishes if we are just swapping and not using skills. I am unable to hit a target i am chasing and actually slows me further down if i use this.

 

In conclusion this weapon will fit right in even if you don't do anything however:

  • it just doesn't have any ability to chase opponents to keep them in melee
  • The CDs are bit long for only being able to use one weapon considering that you are dumping every skill for combos.
  • Absolutely needs to be able to put focus on multiple targets
  • Focus needs to be a self upkeep buff so you can use it on different foes, this is an issue when fighting outnumbered if you swap targets you are losing your dps and wasting it on others by not targeting the focused foe
  • I also feel like for a competitive weapon everything feels a bit too slow casting.
  • For a hybrid weapon it doesn't do enough condi dmg and being labeled as a hybrid weapon now takes away from dps with no condi compensation.
  • you need to give the spear just more options like evade on skill 2, projectile block on skill 3, unblockable on skill 3 throw, quickness on skill 4, vigor or might on skill 5.


This is just my feedback i will still end up using this weapon because it's new and interesting. overall i feel like this wasn't thought through enough and got no love.

Edited by Alec B.8905
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Mobility and defensives are lacking, so you'll never see it used in a competitive environment. Skills are far too slow, never going to use it if they're not changed. It's not a hammer guys.

Edited by SleepyBat.9034
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I'm i doing something wrong but it miss some animation ? the third skill combinate with 5 skill in the long preview video do a beautiful electric effect but i can't do the same in game 😕 ( first beta for me, so maybe its normal )

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13 minutes ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

Mobility and defensives are lacking, so you'll never see it used in a competitive environment.

Defensively, I'd say it's on par with rifle (immob + launch/knockdown), but it does feel a little more YOLO since a couple skills lock you into animations in melee. More like hammer in that respect.

It feels like it has great mobility actually, with how often Conduit Surge (skill 2) is up. Combo that with Rocket Boots and Holo Leap, and I don't think anyone will be able to kite you. The skills feel a bit clunky, but maybe I just haven't figured out how to cancel properly yet.

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Hi Engi main, most of my comments are from a PvP perspective.

I absolutely adore the visual effects and sound effects of the weapon, but it doesn't feel fluid to use. Without quickness, it feels especially sluggish.

In PvE, the DPS numbers on the Kitty Golem seem quite low for all three power, condition, and hybrid builds. (Maybe I am not finding the right setup though)

  1. The auto-attack chain feels lackluster, especially considering the long CDs (in PvP, even more so). The third attack needs a power buff or to apply additional effects, something extra. Perhaps an AoE cone of electricity that applies secondary power damage or fire (I'm thinking lootstick cone), something to make it worthwhile to go through the motions of the whole AA chain. It has a 1 second cast time and lacks impact. (Edit 3: AA range feels too short in PvP for sure)
  2. Conduit Surge - This ability overshoots the target a lot, even with melee assist. It also makes you jump into the air randomly when hitting the target. I think this skill could benefit from applied quickness at the end of the dash, perhaps? (Edit 3: Further testing, the dash range is inconsistant, sometimes it feels like 400 only weirdly). This ability is probably the most fun on the kit, when it works well, the quickness zoomies is super enjoyable.
  3. Lightning Rod - The AoE feels good, but it's not affected by quickness from my testing - It should tick faster. This skill (and the weapon overall) could also benefit from something defensive added. Perhaps magnentic aura with this skill, or by rewarding a small barrier each time the tick successfully hits.
    --Electric Artillery is extremely awkward and lacks fluidity. It needs more range (900 or 1200) and improved targeting (please use the same targeting as shortbow 2-5). For example, after throwing grenades backwards, you need to have line of sight or turn the camera/character to hit them. The "Spear complete" animation is slow and unnecessary in my opinion. I think the whole spear concept coming together and going into the air could be removed; it looks weird and I'm not a fan of how it launches - I would keep the strike animation/explosion effect and consider it done with vertical lightning hitting the enemy. The artillery skill takes too long to hit after pressing the ability; damage should be instant or at most 0.5 seconds after. (Edit 2: I've noticed that the EA final hit animation sometimes doesn't occur, nor does the damage strike.)
  4. Rolling Skies - Again sorry, it feels slow. I think it would be better to have a double animation here for better counterplay too. The first cone could deal some damage, and then the main stun cone after a short period of time, so at least people can roll then.
  5. Devastator - Such a beautiful animation, but man this feels terrible to use. Quickness again doesn't seem to affect this skill, (but it does on Skill 2?) the leap is too short and sluggish, the time between the spear stabbing into the ground and the lightning/explosion/damage happening needs to match to make it feel fluid. Also, the dmg radius is only 240?
     

In conclusion, I really like the lightning fantasy and animations (barring skill 3 EA, and the leap lock of 5), the sounds are great. But the comboing and overall fluidity of the weapon needs some work. A little defense would go a long way, especially when you've got the likes of hammer doing similar damage/burst, but with all the safety of evade, reflect and block too. In general I feel engineer needs to have more expression instead of being locked into Explosives/Firearms for damage. Lastly, taking alchemy with the new condition removal changes hits your damage too hard to be viable sadly. Thanks team for all your hard work, much love! ❤️

Edited by Melumi.6432
Grammar, updates, etc
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17 minutes ago, coro.3176 said:

Defensively, I'd say it's on par with rifle (immob + launch/knockdown), but it does feel a little more YOLO since a couple skills lock you into animations in melee. More like hammer in that respect.

It feels like it has great mobility actually, with how often Conduit Surge (skill 2) is up. Combo that with Rocket Boots and Holo Leap, and I don't think anyone will be able to kite you. The skills feel a bit clunky, but maybe I just haven't figured out how to cancel properly yet.

I hate being forced to run rocketboots. Engineer should not be balanced around them.

Quote

It feels like it has great mobility actually, with how often Conduit Surge (skill 2) is up.

Compared to what exactly? A weapon set with no mobility? Sure, but when you're fighting theives and willbenders you might as well log out

Edited by SleepyBat.9034
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WvW/PvP perspective.

1. Auto attacks being 130 range makes little sense. Buff to 180 or 240 (like thief spear).

2. The leap distance is just too short. It says 700 range, but feels more like 450.

5. Compared to rifle 5 it feels very slow and clunky.

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The dash (2 skill) is a bit funky and kinda underwhelming.  You can hit from 700 range, but the initial dash is slow, you like double in speed for the last 450 range, making it less valuable as a gap closer.  Also when dashing without a target (or out of range) you only travel ~400 range and at the slow dash speed.  Basically slower than expected and not all that good of a mobility skill.

 

skill3 lightning rod, feels like the initial skill should be instant cast like Ele Hammer orbs, but, no, it has a cast and it doesn’t feel good.  Overall spear feels slow vs what I expected.  Not bad, but not good either.

 

also the defiant damage is bugged on skill4, it’s 200 stun or 332 launch, so throw mine or big ol bomb levels of CC, nice to have something but not crazy like the tooltip implies.

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So far this is what I notice in regards to how a skills feel with speed:


Skill 1 - Auto feels a bit too slow. It would be nice if they speed it up just by a small amount.

Skill 4 - This skill feels way too slow, making this skill quicker would benefit it a lot.

Skill 5 - Feels a bit slow and I don't like how the skill locks you in place afterwards. Maybe it could be that it feels slow because of being locked in place, but definitely getting rid of that locked after cast would make Skill 5 a whole lot better!

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Huge combat issues

  • 2 sometimes overshoots the target, and stops your autoattack chain, REQUIRING you to face them again. This kind of feels like a bug?
  • 3's second rod ability REQUIRES you to face the target. And if the enemy walks pass you 0.2 inches during the (long) cast time, it just fails, so you have to face them AGAIN and cast it AGAIN. This. Feels. Horrid, and sounds like a design choice. Please make this an instant, non-facing requirement cast like grenades.

Focus effect graphical/UI issues

  • Can't see focused effect because it is; 1) Too faint of a red-orange color 2) If I'm fighting a boss/skull icon/swords icon/any mob with an icon on its head, this icon blocks the focused effect.

Actual bugs

Edited by Angelissa.8409
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Loving the overall theme and skills, but the focused mechanic needs some work.  Biggest pain point for me was not being able to tell when I was focused or which enemy I was focused on.  There didn't seem to be any indicator like I saw on other professions (or if there was, it wasn't triggering).  The other problem is that the entire mechanic basically forces you to get within melee range of your focused target, so skills 3, 4 & 5 end up with a lot of wasted potential when they allow for greater range.

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Personally i would like that all spear autoattacks (from every class) to be range from further away and melee up close

 

I would make the autoattack range 240 not 130

The skill 2 distance is too short. It says 700 range, but feels more like 450. Either let it as it is but give it 2 charges or make it go futher like 900 range. Skill 2 should also be giving the focus buff on 3 targets not 1

The skill 2 should give swiftness after the cast and give it an evade during the cast (not my idea)

I would made the first part of skill 3 pulse bleeding (better synergy with firearms) and a projectile block while it charges (nice for WvW). Also making it a lightning field to combo with skill 2 and and 5 make sense to me (better synergy with how scrapper gives quickness). I would make the 2nd part of the skill a ground target and the cast time faster.In my opinion the 2nd part of skill 3 should also be giving the focus buff. Only having the skill 2 apply the focus mechanic isnt fun

The 4 skills seems fine but i would also give it some sort of a defensive utility (which it seriously lacks being only a melee weapon) in the form of barrier or boon

The skill 5 needs the most work i think. The cast time feels slow even with quickness and it locks you for the duration of it, so it makes it feel even worse. The leap distance should be  at least 600 and with a faster animation (rifle 5 feels so much better). It would be better if the skill 5 hit 3 targets while focused for fewer hits (3 times on 3 tagets instread of 6 times on 1 target)


 

Overall i like the concept of it but with a few tweaks it will be a nice edition

 

Edited by Markos.9523
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Did only little testing on Mech.

Weapon skill 3 doesnt trigger Mech 3. Not initial skill not ammo skill.

As already said, focus doesnt show anything on target to know its focused.

Damage seems ok?

Skill 2 is little shield but didnt see any other defensive.

Would be nice if like hammer some skill could be field not only finishers.

 

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Skill 1 range is too short feels like a sword, skill 2 range leap is too short should be 900. Skill 3 charged spear duration should last longer and be 900 not 700, and give 5 seconds stability when casting electric artillery. Skill 4 cast time is too long, skill 5 needs range and faster cast time.

Skill 3 electric artillery should also apply Focused.
 

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Some ideas and suggestions:
Nr3: change the first stage to parry (block) incoming attacks instead of dealing dmg. Stage 2 only activates if you block an attack. Similair to mesmer shield.
Nr5: Add a damage field after the skill lands. add a dmg bonus to focused enemies taking damage from the field.
Nr2: add swiftness to the engineer after executing the leap. Alternatively move the immobilze from nr3 to nr2
Nr4: replace the stun with daze or immobilize and keep the damage in competitive game modes.

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about defiance bar damage, this is what roiling skies ought to look like whether you're targeting a focused foe or an unfocused foe.

how roiling skies' CC should be presented

it is becoming more ambiguous and annoying to find out what skills do exactly how much defiance bar damage. a lot of skills incorrectly add up the values or do not mention defiance bar damage at all. to many people, this would read as 732 defiance bar damage on a 15-second cooldown, when it is simply not so. soft CCs from skills also do not mention the small defiance bar damage they do either.

cleaning up skills' tooltips to separate conditional CC effects such as on this skill would clear up a lot of ambiguity. 

by the way, skill 2 and skill 5 are too short of leaps. skill 5 should offer a greater ranger than 450, and conduit surge plays like a 450 range dash than a 700 range dash.
 

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It doesn’t seem like the 2 skill is actually registering as a leap finisher. Tried both starting and ending in a field, but it’s not triggering anything. Unfortunately that means I can’t really test quickness scrapper.

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