An idea to improve Non scepter specters

[nopoet.2960]

I was playing around with specter builds earlier this week and had this random idea.  What if finishing dark fields would apply rot wallow venom to yourself and regen ini?  Think about it.  Two things that hold non scepter builds back is lack of torment and ini.  Condition weapons are d/d a/d and p/d.  Dagger/dagger can easily finish wells with death blossom.  You can blast 2x quickly with axe sneak attack with 3 as a follow up.  Shadowstrike on P/d is a projectile finisher as is repeater to a lesser degree.  If they put a leap finisher on spear 3 it could benefit too.

The best thing about this is that it wont really benefit scepter so you don't have to worry about balancing for it.  They would just need to find a spot for it in the Specter traits.

Edited June 28 by nopoet.2960
update title and fix a word

[vardeleanu.8972]

You know what else would Improve non-scepter specters ? bugfixing Malicious Shadowsquall this year and making it apply to 5 allies like it should.

Quote

 You can blast 2x quickly with axe sneak attack with 3 as a follow up

Oh yeah, unless you're a deadeye, since that stealth attack is broken too and has no blast finisher : o ) 

Edited July 2 by vardeleanu.8972

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

On 7/1/2024 at 8:17 PM, vardeleanu.8972 said:

You know what else would Improve non-scepter specters ? bugfixing Malicious Shadowsquall this year and making it apply to 5 allies like it should.

Oh yeah, unless you're a deadeye, since that stealth attack is broken too and has no blast finisher : o ) 

@Rubi Bayer.8493 said its flagged, may be a while for fix though

[nopoet.2960]

On 7/1/2024 at 8:17 PM, vardeleanu.8972 said:

You know what else would Improve non-scepter specters ? bugfixing Malicious Shadowsquall this year and making it apply to 5 allies like it should.

Oh yeah, unless you're a deadeye, since that stealth attack is broken too and has no blast finisher : o ) 

I mean, like, I don't disagree but.. you know... this thread is about improving non scepter Specters and your comment is about scepters and Deadeyes.  

At least toss me a like.  Seems like it's not a bad idea cause ya'll would have told me already if it was.

[bq pd.2148]

On 7/2/2024 at 2:17 AM, vardeleanu.8972 said:

Oh yeah, unless you're a deadeye, since that stealth attack is broken too and has no blast finisher : o ) 

On 7/3/2024 at 4:16 AM, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

said its flagged, may be a while for fix though

for me it has been fixed (in WvW and PvE, no idea about PvP), was surprised by it yesterday at some point.

Edited July 4 by bq pd.2148

[vardeleanu.8972]

True, it seems the axe was fixed, even if it was not mentioned in the patch notes. Scepter's still broken though.

 

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

16 hours ago, bq pd.2148 said:

for me it has been fixed (in WvW and PvE, no idea about PvP), was surprised by it yesterday at some point.

Is it shown in tooltip too ? Deadeye malicious cunning salvo?

[bq pd.2148]

7 hours ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

Is it shown in tooltip too ? Deadeye malicious cunning salvo?

yes

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

New idea: (not discrediting your idea)

 

Each espec has unique stealth attacks/normal attacks that benefit each espec you play on. Different effects, same weapon. Take dead eye, for example, has malicious versions of stealth attacks...specter and daredevil could get the same treatment

Edited July 7 by Lithril Ashwalker.6230

[bq pd.2148]

1 hour ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

New idea: (not discrediting your idea)

 

Each espec has unique stealth attacks/normal attacks that benefit each espec you play on. Different effects, same weapon. Take dead eye, for example, has malicious versions of stealth attacks...specter and daredevil could get the same treatment

interesting.
deadeye also does come with extra ways to get stealth. on rifle with silent scope but on other weapons with the stolen skills so that they can utilize that mechanic.
in that way i would rather have that such attacks based on what daredevil/spectre bring to the table:

• daredevil  ambush skill after an evade. depending on the strength with an ICD similar to untamed ambush skills.
• spectre ambush after leaving shroud?  or after a shadowstep

Edited July 7 by bq pd.2148

[kash.9213]

On 7/7/2024 at 2:34 AM, bq pd.2148 said:

interesting.
deadeye also does come with extra ways to get stealth. on rifle with silent scope but on other weapons with the stolen skills so that they can utilize that mechanic.
in that way i would rather have that such attacks based on what daredevil/spectre bring to the table:

• daredevil  ambush skill after an evade. depending on the strength with an ICD similar to untamed ambush skills.
• spectre ambush after leaving shroud?  or after a shadowstep

I'm a little confused on both posts. So, performing these actions like an Evade or leaving Shadow Shroud or using a Shadowstep on respective Elites would change what your next Stealth Attack would be? I would put int he effort to set that up if the new effect had some real bite or dynamic utility. I know you're just brainstorming but that Specter example would probably be a lot easier to set up than the Daredevil example. 

[bq pd.2148]

16 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

I'm a little confused on both posts. So, performing these actions like an Evade or leaving Shadow Shroud or using a Shadowstep on respective Elites would change what your next Stealth Attack would be? I would put int he effort to set that up if the new effect had some real bite or dynamic utility. I know you're just brainstorming but that Specter example would probably be a lot easier to set up than the Daredevil example. 

as far as i understood the ashwalker, they wanted to add unique stealth attacks in general to daredevil/spectre, just like other classes have modifications to their mechanics that we would have a modification to stealth attack on all elite specs not just deadeye.

while i like the idea, the deadeye also has their malice mechanic tied to it and has the tools to frequently enter stealth to use the malicious attacks, while daredevil/spectre have different strengths.
so i suggested that instead of just giving them a new stealth attack, also give them a unique way to access their 'stealth' attack to better tie into their patterns and you know.. variety, ontop of already more differences in those 'stealth' attacks.

daredevil should be easy if it is for example on evade (+on dodge), you can use your stealth attack. but if you use it, you can only access it in that manner again after say 10s, tracked with an icon like untamed unleash.  given that daredevil wants to dodge frequently for their mechanics, this should be quite doable.

 

Edited July 9 by bq pd.2148

[nopoet.2960]

I was thinking through my original suggestion and wanted to flesh it out a little.  I would change Strength of Shadows trait to...

Strength of Shadows - Gain expertise based on a percentage of your vitality. Torment you inflict deals increased damage.  When you successfully combo a field you gain initiative.  If the field is dark you also gain stacks of Rot Venom.

I'm thinking 3 ini and 3 stacks of Rot Venom for comboing with a dark field plus an appropriate cool down.  The big idea is to give non-scepter using specters more power without also making scepter stronger.  

[nopoet.2960]

2 hours ago, bq pd.2148 said:

as far as i understood the ashwalker, they wanted to add unique stealth attacks in general to daredevil/spectre, just like other classes have modifications to their mechanics that we would have a modification to stealth attack on all elite specs not just deadeye.

while i like the idea, the deadeye also has their malice mechanic tied to it and has the tools to frequently enter stealth to use the malicious attacks, while daredevil/spectre have different strengths.
so i suggested that instead of just giving them a new stealth attack, also give them a unique way to access their 'stealth' attack to better tie into their patterns and you know.. variety, ontop of already more differences in those 'stealth' attacks.

daredevil should be easy if it is for example on evade (+on dodge), you can use your stealth attack. but if you use it, you can only access it in that manner again after say 10s, tracked with an icon like untamed unleash.  given that daredevil wants to dodge frequently for their mechanics, this should be quite doable.

 

I always thought daredevil needed something else.  The best I could come up with is to change steal into a leaping knockdown.  But what would a 1200 range leap even look like?

[bq pd.2148]

1 hour ago, nopoet.2960 said:

I always thought daredevil needed something else.  The best I could come up with is to change steal into a leaping knockdown.  But what would a 1200 range leap even look like?

current teleport is many times better than a leap as being instant you can use it while in another animation, with trickery traits it will also pretty much always daze for defensive use, even while CC'd yourself.
the instant nature of steal is IMO the main reason why in a daredevil/core vs deadeye, the deadeye is at a disadvantage.

leap skills tend to be very unreliable the longer the distance, at 1.2k range i would not expect it to hit any non-stationary target, but be another way to creatively get into WvW objectives. i guess a leap could at least be used to run away. 
i suppose a short leap or rather slide with a knockdown could work if it was an evade and maybe had the unblockable nature of old swipe back. that way it would still be usable defensively, but not as instant skill. being able to 'steal' from multiple opponents that way would help in team fights enough that it might be worth it.

Edited July 9 by bq pd.2148

[kash.9213]

6 hours ago, bq pd.2148 said:

as far as i understood the ashwalker, they wanted to add unique stealth attacks in general to daredevil/spectre, just like other classes have modifications to their mechanics that we would have a modification to stealth attack on all elite specs not just deadeye.

while i like the idea, the deadeye also has their malice mechanic tied to it and has the tools to frequently enter stealth to use the malicious attacks, while daredevil/spectre have different strengths.
so i suggested that instead of just giving them a new stealth attack, also give them a unique way to access their 'stealth' attack to better tie into their patterns and you know.. variety, ontop of already more differences in those 'stealth' attacks.

daredevil should be easy if it is for example on evade (+on dodge), you can use your stealth attack. but if you use it, you can only access it in that manner again after say 10s, tracked with an icon like untamed unleash.  given that daredevil wants to dodge frequently for their mechanics, this should be quite doable.

 

That sounds like a lot of fun. It would also be fitting in the new dynamics Anet seems to be eyeing up with combo and weaving options like with the new Spear.