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Spear, Axe and Specter make no sense


Havock.1648

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Now with spear revealed it's obvious that the devs are trying to solve the toxic stealth problem by finding something to replace it. The player base of thieves wants to be toxic and annoying in game modes like PvP and WvW using stealth and assasin mechanics. Giving the class wands, support specs and short ranged weapons will not solve the problem. This is made worse by giving assasin and acrobatic skills to a class like Guardian, marked as support by its profession name!
Give thieves more stealth and fix the current weapon kits so they can be played as an assasin class! Stop it with this bunch of weapons making thief a tooth fairy or a half functioning necromancer with ranger axe weapon.
The fantasy component is backward, in PvP Ranger is a better melee class than warrior, thief is better at shooting range than the LB ranger and guardian has more mobility and acrobatic skills than thief!!!
 

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So one of Anets main selling points for GW2 is the how flexible they are with their class fantasies and how much they break the mould e.g Elementalsits start the game off with daggers in melee range instead of what would be the normal mage weapon in other games e.g staff, Spellcasting necromancers being also able to be great sword wielding juggernauts' or thieves (rogues) becoming rife using snipers. 
Now of course in the beginning this is  very refreshing and novel way to expand the game, it feels as if class fantasies have been reasonably challenged and expanded within a certain limit, however there does get to a point where class fantasies are starting to take a backseat to just introducing new skills  and specs for the sake of expanding the game. IMO part of the fun of playing  a profession and fulfilling a class fantasy is not only what they can do but also what they *can not*do , so yes I want my thief to be a stealthy and agile assassin which is about Daredevil and Deadeye fufill but you start to lose me at spectre because it simply covers too much of the necromancers territory and I don't find necromancer fun as a thief I had no intention of playing as a shadow magician, if I wanted that I would simply play the profession that is the actual shadow magician at its core. 

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3 hours ago, Havock.1648 said:

Now with spear revealed it's obvious that the devs are trying to solve the toxic stealth problem by finding something to replace it. The player base of thieves wants to be toxic and annoying in game modes like PvP and WvW using stealth and assasin mechanics. Giving the class wands, support specs and short ranged weapons will not solve the problem. This is made worse by giving assasin and acrobatic skills to a class like Guardian, marked as support by its profession name!
Give thieves more stealth and fix the current weapon kits so they can be played as an assasin class! Stop it with this bunch of weapons making thief a tooth fairy or a half functioning necromancer with ranger axe weapon.
The fantasy component is backward, in PvP Ranger is a better melee class than warrior, thief is better at shooting range than the LB ranger and guardian has more mobility and acrobatic skills than thief!!!
 

Every profession is supposed to be able to fill many different roles and playstyles. If you want to play a "stealthy assassin" as a thief you can as well play as that, but you can as well do that with some other classes.

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12 hours ago, Szatko.8132 said:

Every profession is supposed to be able to fill many different roles and playstyles. If you want to play a "stealthy assassin" as a thief you can as well play as that, but you can as well do that with some other classes.

Well when it comes to creativity, there exists a area of thought that the greatest inspiration and conditions for creativity are not what is available to you but what is *not* available, This line of thought therefore suggests that the thief is a stealthy assassin and should *only* be a stealthy assassin - developers can remain within this limitation while still adding new abilities into the game, Daredevil and Deadeye fit into this 'creative limitation' but spectre does not and its existence hurts and breaks the class fantasy rather tan adding to it.

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9 hours ago, Daenxi.4530 said:

Well when it comes to creativity, there exists a area of thought that the greatest inspiration and conditions for creativity are not what is available to you but what is *not* available, This line of thought therefore suggests that the thief is a stealthy assassin and should *only* be a stealthy assassin - developers can remain within this limitation while still adding new abilities into the game, Daredevil and Deadeye fit into this 'creative limitation' but spectre does not and its existence hurts and breaks the class fantasy rather tan adding to it.

Well, every thief uses shadow magic in order to grant themselves invisibility and other utilities. An idea of specter elite spec was to delve deeper into that part of thief's identity and I wouldn't really say it breaks the class fantasy, it's just something different than a typical "assassin" archetype of deadeye and daredevil. Also the fact that anet devs really wanted to make every profession in the game able to fill a support role. And it's good, if someone doesn't like it, they can as well just play other elite specializations that they like 🤷‍♂️

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3 minutes ago, Szatko.8132 said:

Well, every thief uses shadow magic in order to grant themselves invisibility and other utilities. An idea of specter elite spec was to delve deeper into that part of thief's identity and I wouldn't really say it breaks the class fantasy, it's just something different than a typical "assassin" archetype of deadeye and daredevil. Also the fact that anet devs really wanted to make every profession in the game able to fill a support role. And it's good, if someone doesn't like it, they can as well just play other elite specializations that they like 🤷‍♂️

Also worth noting that the GW1 assassin was always more magical in nature than core thief, daredevil, and deadeye (although deadeye does have a bit of magic) - spectre makes sense in that context as being the thief variant who goes all in.

(Thief shadow magic is also very different to necromancer magic - if anything, it's closest to mesmer.)

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On 6/28/2024 at 10:52 AM, Havock.1648 said:

Now with spear revealed it's obvious that the devs are trying to solve the toxic stealth problem by finding something to replace it. The player base of thieves wants to be toxic and annoying in game modes like PvP and WvW using stealth and assasin mechanics. Giving the class wands, support specs and short ranged weapons will not solve the problem. This is made worse by giving assasin and acrobatic skills to a class like Guardian, marked as support by its profession name!
Give thieves more stealth and fix the current weapon kits so they can be played as an assasin class! Stop it with this bunch of weapons making thief a tooth fairy or a half functioning necromancer with ranger axe weapon.
The fantasy component is backward, in PvP Ranger is a better melee class than warrior, thief is better at shooting range than the LB ranger and guardian has more mobility and acrobatic skills than thief!!!
 

Don't worry, spear ranger going to be the real thief, except green.

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Some things make sense, many other things do not though. They wanted to bring back some GW1 playstyles (I personally liked Shadow Mages and Spear abuser Assassins in GW1). Anet made Specter so limited and didn't fully commit to their defensive style. I personally wanted a spec based on GW1 Shadow Form that completely replaced all stealth applications with barrier so that being able to go invisible wouldn't make people cry anymore~ it'd be only way to get an actual defensive playstyle without people raging about stealth. Stealth didn't exist in GW1, Assassin was all damage mitigation and speed. Shadow Shroud also just isn't edgy enough and kinda boring for a 'deadly shadow assassin.' Probably should of dipped further into wide cleave melee shadow blades and claws.

Then the ally targeting mechanic was/is complete nonsense for this type of game; a failed experiment. The scepter should have and always had splash damage on target+splash healing around it and ground targeted 2 cuz that's what this game is structured best for. Then the worst thing of all; P/D Shadow Strike's mechanic has been hated by many for ages; it has no business being tagged onto another skill~ Measured Shot's annoying backwards teleport ruins Specter's only Scepter AoE. Wasting teleports to AoE heal is a bad mechanic as well. Putting a full range spec in melee range with wells also makes no sense.

Then the Rotweiler Venom mechanic is just not a good choice for a minor trait as it's useless for power builds~ and the spec just wasn't structured like most other specs like Mechanist where one line is Condi, another is Support and another is Power. It's just all Torment and Support, which not all our weaposn do Torment. It was just made to be so limited with too much disconnect from anything else Thief has to offer.

Axe was a neat idea for a trap-assassin but very poor execution (just like our lame traps/preparations), poor quality of life, throws dual attacks out the window by not bothering to have one~ it's just a flip-over of 2 moved to 3 for some reason, no matching off-hand, and outstandlingly awful accessability for people who care about ear health due to the painful sound effect they refuse to change. I literally can not use it at all. It sounded fine in beta and they changed it's sound effect to pure trash on release. I pray to god/Abaddon that they don't do the same to Spear. Thieves/Assassins shouldn't be running around with so many loud af weapons. And I'll keep repeating this for as long as it takes.

Edited by Doggie.3184
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