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Bundle LW seasons with expansions they come before.


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Its really hard to sell the friends on the expansion sales when I also have to inform them they will need to buy all the inbetween content. Its not about how expensive they are or the methods you can use yo get them. Its about how off-putting the extra required purchases are when convincing them its worth jumping into gw2 during the sale.

Its long passed due anyway. LW should have been phased out of the store in this way based on age long ago, in my opinion. Especially now given that that content style is discontinued.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

The Complete Collection is now half-price.  That's a pretty good deal and less than many single-player games.

https://buy.guildwars2.com/en-us/collections?tab=3

The entire dragon saga expansions are under $30 right now. 75% and 50% off. LW is only 40% off. And thats completely besides the point, anyway. The point is living worlds separate bundling is awkward  and outdated. Theres no reason to not just include them in the expansion bundles during these sales.

I havent witnessed a single person getting into gw2 buy the expansions, get told they also need the living worlds and not be put-off or bothered by it. Not once.

Its time to consildate it in a way that makes sense. At a certain point, old content stops being profitible enough to warrent bad implementation. LW2 and 3 are beyond that stage. You can have any opinion you want on the price of living world, but if you think having key parts of your story hidden in the shadows of the store as extra required purchases for players jumping in for the 75% off bundle leaves good impressions on them about the game, you would be objectively wrong.

Edited by SatyricL.2784
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53 minutes ago, Healix.5819 said:

If they bundled them, the complete collection would be the only offer right now.

I mean if OP is fine with hot 20 bucks (hot including season 2/3), pof 50 bucks (pof season 4/ibs), eod 30 bucks (I think gyala delves is included for free).

Im ok with that to.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Healix.5819 said:

If they bundled them, the complete collection would be the only offer right now.

No it wouldnt.

S2 & 3 should come with the purchase of HoT and PoF. S4 and IBS should come with EOD. Think of it as instead of another price reduction, they bundle the old LW with their corresponding expansion the same way they bundled HoT & PoF for the price of one expansion.

No other game locks key story content outside of the expansions as an editional purchase, and if they are phasing out LW, they should also phase out this awkward implementation of it for the sake of incoming players who decide to look into the current and future sales of individual expansions.

Currently, from the outside, acquiring the necessary content for story looks messy and unappealing. Most new players are not coming in and buying the full collection. They are trying the free base game and then saying "oh the first two expansions come together for the price of one. Maybe I will get those." At which point they have no choice but to deal with the awkwardness LWs separate purchase, if they even realize they need it. Otherwise wondering why HoT starts off looking like a warzone, and why the hell Rytlock is suddenly an isekai anime protagonist.

Edited by SatyricL.2784
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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

I mean if OP is fine with hot 20 bucks (hot including season 2/3), pof 50 bucks (pof season 4/ibs), eod 30 bucks (I think gyala delves is included for free).

Im ok with that to.

Nah, my opinion is that all LW should be reduced to free at a certain age, much like they permanently reduced the price of HoT and PoF and combined them. Just as S1 was made permanently free with its reimplementation.

At the very least, in terms of time, s2 and s3 should be free by now, and combined with the HoT/PoF bundle.

Ideally all LW should eventually be free and included with the purchases of the expansion that they immediately preceed. Its just far better for the incoming player experience to not have to deal with the messy remnants of a content style they stopped producing.

(To clarify, free as in no editional charge beyond the expansion purchase. You would still have to buy an expansion to get them, so they would still be tied to an incoming revenue source.)

Edited by SatyricL.2784
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i think the issue with the complete collection is i see alot of players confusing it for the ultimate bundle that includes only the expansions. its very hard to get anyone into the game with this system, especially when they make the mistake early on of buying the wrong "best edition".

 

i've invited dozens of players to the game over the years, and they always quit at living world when the episodes are missing.

 

i don't know what the proper solution is, if bundling is the right idea or not (i think it would be), but maybe not calling it ultimate would be a good start..? if its not the ultimate edition, then it shouldn't carry that name because it becomes nothing but newbie trap.

Edited by SoftFootpaws.9134
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To a newcomer, the words "Living World" will mean absolutely nothing. Even "seasonal content" is too wishy-washy. Time and time again online games do this kind of stuff where new buyers have to read a guide on what to buy, where to buy, how much and what kind of content is in which bundle etc. etc.

It really scares a lot of people away when they can't even fully understand what's on sale and what the best options for buying are.

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Posted (edited)

It would be the logical thing to do. I explained this a lot of times in other threads. But someone here also mentioned that ArenaNet have more data in detail about the sales. Might just sell better when they do it the way they are doing it atm: Where new players might end up spening more than they intended when they want to experience the full thing ... getting the LW seasons with a gem store purchase - buying extra gems for that immediately after they bought the expansions.

We still see threads every now and then - about the order of the story. And I usually recommend the wiki. For MMORPG you need the wiki. I doubt there are ones where you do not need to to research at all. (Maybe easier/different for new players. But games get complex as a lot of stuff gets added.)

"Customer friendly" would be though ... to at least give a bit more info on this on the pages where the expansions get sold. Especially if they sell packs where you end up with gaps that need to be filled by buying the seasons.

I wonder of a custom-made system would be possible for the shop - would need own coding though. (Probably not worth it especially since they are already on Steam where you can just use the steam stuff that allowes fixed packages only.)

With custom-made I mean: Add 1 expansion to the card. Pay the full price. Add a 2nd one - get a discount. Special discount for the fitting (leading up to that expansion) LW season if you buy int in combo with the expansion.

The complete package was a good first step. Hints that there are those seasons. And that you can get everything with that package. (From the stuff before SotO.)  Just this needs you to make a big purchase at once ... while the smaller packages lead you with gaps. Especially that thing they combined into 1 item (where you even can't get the missing last shared inventory slot): The PoF+HoT bundle.

For me it personally worked to slowly progress and buy the expansions and seasons as needed. (I started to catch up after PoF but before EoD so I got only the HoT+PoF bundle and bought season 2 first ... then I played HoT that I had from the bundle. Only then I got S3. Always bought at sales.)

Edit: At a sale for the expansions ... they are pretty cheap though. Atm it seems extrem. From 75 to 30 for all 3 and the complete pack with the seasons for 50 (instead of about 100).

Edited by Luthan.5236
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Posted (edited)

When I started playing years ago by myself I didn't even understand what a LW was, I finished f2p story and bought HoT, started HoT and didn't understand a ***t of what was happening. After that I learned that those LW were not some premium stuff or filler content but massive important story chapter in disguise highly unnoticeable for a novice player, with the risk of ruining the experience for some, and can be a deterrent for others. A couple of friends of mine left the game because the massive cut to the story content between the former f2p content without LW1 + LW2 and the first expansion, that because it completely obliterated their interest in the story itself, so they played for a while without hype or interest for the story and slowly quit because the gameplay alone was not enough for them. Yes you can purchase LW seasons with gems, but a player fresh of f2p content does not have the gold nor the gems to buy them. ANet did good at reintegrate LW1 inside the f2p content, but at this point i think it is mandatory that LW seasons should be added to expansions, just raise their price a bit, people would still buy HoT+PoF if you put LW2-3-4 and then you raise the price by 10$ or so. If my idea is an absolute loss in marketing, at least change the name of the Living World seasons in something that is easily attributable to the concept of an expansion of the game. By now I think keeping LW seasons so hidden for new players is a stupid way to lose customers. Just add the seasons to the expansion and raise the price or improve their visibility.

Edited by Val.7826
Grammar
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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

How can you possibly be in the position to know whether that is a good idea or not? Do you know how much revenue that would cost and how many more sales Anet would need to make to recoup that cost?

Yeah its pretty easy to have an educated guess on how dependant Anet is on LW revenue. Given that they gave it away for free the the mass majority of their concurrent playerbase, I would say not so much. And given how they gave it all away again for the steam release, Id say they understand to some degree that its an ugly problem the longer it goes on. If anything, the price of living world episodes was more to offset the cost of developing them than to actually rake in a profit. Someone did the math and decided it was better for their goals to lose most of the potential profits on them by giving them away on release. You dont make that kind of decision for ANY reason unless that particular content is not meant to be a profit generator. Just as its the case with the expansions. Profit is what the gemstore is for.

Whether anyone likes it or not, its a bad model for bringing in new players, and should have been fully adressed when they decided to put LW to rest.

Not to mention they just funded the next 3 expansions off bikini sales.

Edited by SatyricL.2784
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On 7/11/2024 at 2:56 AM, SatyricL.2784 said:

Yeah its pretty easy to have an educated guess on how dependant Anet is on LW revenue. Given that they gave it away for free the the mass majority of their concurrent playerbase, I would say not so much. And given how they gave it all away again for the steam release, Id say they understand to some degree that its an ugly problem the longer it goes on. If anything, the price of living world episodes was more to offset the cost of developing them than to actually rake in a profit. Someone did the math and decided it was better for their goals to lose most of the potential profits on them by giving them away on release. You dont make that kind of decision for ANY reason unless that particular content is not meant to be a profit generator. Just as its the case with the expansions. Profit is what the gemstore is for.

Whether anyone likes it or not, its a bad model for bringing in new players, and should have been fully adressed when they decided to put LW to rest.

Not to mention they just funded the next 3 expansions off bikini sales.

I draw different conclusions.

Anet no longer are doing LW and instead have annual paid expansions. I suspect they recognize that giving LW away to the active players on release was a terrible way of doing it - it's the opposite of what a lot of pricing theory says as they gave LW away for free to the most dedicated players (the ones who should be willing to pay the most) and instead they tried charging it to new players (eg core players doing the story and hitting LW2) who are likely to be less dedicated and more price sensitive. This was back to front, ideally LW should have cost money on release and then been discounted or included in bundles later (basically pricing 101).

Anet has made LW episodes free to pick up exactly once since doing 1 a week starting in May 2021. That's the only time since initial release.

If LW sales produced negligible income then why aren't they free all the time? Why hasn't the cost of buying LW episodes been dropped from say 200 gems to 100 gems?

As I've said in this thread, I do however agree that it doesn't feel good. IMO LW2 at least needs to be bundled into HoT. I hope that as Anet get their annual release model working smoothly LW sales income will become less important and we will see more free giveaways, a price drop, or completely making them free.

 

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